Arizona Rep. Giffords Shot; Condition Unclear - Page 5 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 12th, 2011, 06:24 PM   #81
rentalrider
Senior Member
 
rentalrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-13-07
Location: West Branch, Mi
Posts: 1,055
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre View Post

Instead of locking crazy, dangerous people in nut houses, they are left to self medicate and live among us.
Agree

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
rentalrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old January 12th, 2011, 06:29 PM   #82
FORD FLARESIDE
Hockey, it is what it is!
 
FORD FLARESIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-09-06
Location: Comstock Park
Posts: 22,318
iTrader: (24)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/08/132764...hot-in-arizona




Representative Gifford was one of 20 people on a "target list" by SarahPAC, Sarah Palin's political action committee. The representative was represented on a map with crosshairs, as shown below:



Here is another example of Palin's reckless speech:




I believe that Palin's use violent language towards political opponents helped convince the shooter to commit the crime. I don't think that Palin meant for this to happen, but I don't think she helped. I also see this as one event in a line of similar incidents that can lead back to violent rhetoric in political speech. Palin and everyone else in this country have the freedom to say whatever they want, but they should also take a second to think about what they are saying when they are in such a influential position.

For other recent examples see:

Glenn Beck/Oakland Shooter/Tides Foundation

Bill O\\\\\\\\\\'Reilly/George Tiller
Wait...........What?
FORD FLARESIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 06:31 PM   #83
FORD FLARESIDE
Hockey, it is what it is!
 
FORD FLARESIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-09-06
Location: Comstock Park
Posts: 22,318
iTrader: (24)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
If Palin was assassinated, I would not be surprised if the person was a left winger. I would not place the blame on the left as I didn't place the blame for the Tucson incident on the right. I blame the shooter for the deaths. It's what I've been saying all along. I would say that the violent rhetoric didn't help things. You just want to make it all about left and right so badly...

uh, sure doesnt look like it from your first post
FORD FLARESIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 06:42 PM   #84
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,878
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FORD FLARESIDE View Post
uh, sure doesnt look like it from your first post
The shooter killed the people. The violent rhetoric I believe may have contributed to the mindset of the killer. People are influenced by influential people. I never blamed Palin for the deaths, but I don't think the violent rhetoric that she contributed to the political climate helped things.
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 06:56 PM   #85
Hombre
I carry a shank
 
Hombre's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-15-06
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,549
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
The shooter killed the people. The violent rhetoric I believe may have contributed to the mindset of the killer. People are influenced by influential people. I never blamed Palin for the deaths, but I don't think the violent rhetoric that she contributed to the political climate helped things.
Oh, please. Do you know a fucking thing about crazy people? I arrested a guy for murder who thought God was talking to him on the Cosby Show and telling him to kill people in order to drive Satan away.

I arrested another guy for murder that was convinced that the female victim was working for the CIA and that he'd gotten secret messages from NPR and CNN to not just kill her, but be-head her and stab her in the heart with a wooden stake.

Arrested another guy for shooting two and stabbing two more because he thought it would "bring about an end to the evil republic of Ronald Reagan."

These people all had one thing in common; they were all products of a fucked up mental health system who KNEW they were crazy, KNEW they were dangerous and KNEW they were ticking time bombs. Not one of them were EVER locked up in a mental health facility for longer than 72 hours. I could cite nearly 30 years of examples and that's just from my perspective, from where I've worked. Think about the big picture of the ENTIRE NATION and the thousands and thousands of crazy, dangerous people out there.

Blame the gun, blame the other party, blame the left, blame the right...whatever. It's laughable. How about we lock up crazy people and keep them away from the rest of us?

Crazy people are C-R-A-Z-Y!!!!!!!!!! They don't live in reality. Going around and blaming others for what crazy people do is insanity. You people are clueless.
Hombre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 06:56 PM   #86
GreaseMonkey
Pew pew!
 
GreaseMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Madison Heights, MI
Posts: 18,045
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
The shooter killed the people. The violent rhetoric I believe may have contributed to the mindset of the killer. People are influenced by influential people. I never blamed Palin for the deaths, but I don't think the violent rhetoric that she contributed to the political climate helped things.

So what if her talk influenced him? What if it didn't? How can you prove it? You can't. His actions were his and his alone.

Man, those crazy Founding Fathers with their violent rhetoric that influenced people to fight for our independence....

We might as well ban any talk that might influence someone to do anything because it COULD be negative. After that, we can start limiting influential speeches to do positive things too.

Fucking individual responsibility. It's gone now. I can probably go out and do anything I want and find some bullshit fucked up excuse that it's someone else's fault.
__________________
GreaseMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 06:56 PM   #87
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,269
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
The shooter killed the people. The violent rhetoric I believe may have contributed to the mindset of the killer. People are influenced by influential people. I never blamed Palin for the deaths, but I don't think the violent rhetoric that she contributed to the political climate helped things.
As stated before the violent rhetoric from the left is by far more aggressive than what you here coming from the right. Watch Fox news and keep track of the violent rhetoric then watch ant liberal tv program let it be Ed Shultz, MSNBC take your pick and then gat back to us,OK
aber61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 07:00 PM   #88
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,878
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
So what if her talk influenced him? What if it didn't? How can you prove it? You can't. His actions were his and his alone.

Man, those crazy Founding Fathers with their violent rhetoric that influenced people to fight for our independence....

We might as well ban any talk that might influence someone to do anything because it COULD be negative. After that, we can start limiting influential speeches to do positive things too.

Fucking individual responsibility. It's gone now. I can probably go out and do anything I want and find some bullshit fucked up excuse that it's someone else's fault.
Jeff, I'm not saying to ban anything. I'm trying to say that we need to PROMOTE individual responsibility in OUR SPEECH. CHRIST...I don't understand how you're not getting it.
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 07:06 PM   #89
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,878
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
As stated before the violent rhetoric from the left is by far more aggressive than what you here coming from the right. Watch Fox news and keep track of the violent rhetoric then watch ant liberal tv program let it be Ed Shultz, MSNBC take your pick and then gat back to us,OK
Since you can't let go of your left wing bashing, show me some recent acts of violence caused by left wingers that you feel is caused by the violent left wing rhetoric.
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 07:09 PM   #90
jeepinRRT
Senior Member
 
jeepinRRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-13-08
Location: Grand Rapids,MI
Posts: 3,627
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
The shooter killed the people. The violent rhetoric I believe may have contributed to the mindset of the killer. People are influenced by influential people. I never blamed Palin for the deaths, but I don't think the violent rhetoric that she contributed to the political climate helped things.


Can you please show any evidence you have that this guy listened to any of the "blamed" national figures?

No, you can't and neither can the left leaning sheriff who was also quick to blame the political right, all on his own misguided assumptions and baseless opinions.

Fact is there is nothing supporting this conclusion, the dude was reading communist literature, not listening to Rush or Hannity

Last edited by jeepinRRT; January 12th, 2011 at 07:13 PM.
jeepinRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 07:09 PM   #91
Fuel Fire Desire
Mall Crawler
 
Fuel Fire Desire's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-01-08
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 2,632
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Jeff, I'm not saying to ban anything. I'm trying to say that we need to PROMOTE individual responsibility
You mean like putting blame the shooter instead of shifting it elsewhere?
Fuel Fire Desire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 07:12 PM   #92
GreaseMonkey
Pew pew!
 
GreaseMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Madison Heights, MI
Posts: 18,045
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Jeff, I'm not saying to ban anything. I'm trying to say that we need to PROMOTE individual responsibility in OUR SPEECH. CHRIST...I don't understand how you're not getting it.
How would you like to accomplish that? Laws? Because that's the answer.

Promote it all you want, but NO ONE should be held accountable for one crazy dude's actions because of what someone said. Words and words, actions are actions.

I understand what you're saying to do, but when you use phrases like Palin's rhetoric may or may not have added to the motivation for this guy to shoot, it's pretty clear what you're getting at. It's common sense people should be careful about what they say. It can affect relationships, work related stuff, etc. But the way you're approaching this is quite clearly saying something needs to be regulated and that if people would have not said some things that were said that this tragedy would have never happened.
__________________
GreaseMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 07:21 PM   #93
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,878
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
How would you like to accomplish that? Laws? Because that's the answer.

Promote it all you want, but NO ONE should be held accountable for one crazy dude's actions because of what someone said. Words and words, actions are actions.

I understand what you're saying to do, but when you use phrases like Palin's rhetoric may or may not have added to the motivation for this guy to shoot, it's pretty clear what you're getting at. It's common sense people should be careful about what they say. It can affect relationships, work related stuff, etc. But the way you're approaching this is quite clearly saying something needs to be regulated and that if people would have not said some things that were said that this tragedy would have never happened.
It would seem to be common sense maybe to you and I, but apparently not to people making up lists with people's names on them and marking them on a map with crosshairs and tweeting out messages like, "don't retreat, reload." They left up the map with the crosshairs after Giffords complained about being targeted with death threats, but then took it down after the shooting... strange.
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 07:22 PM   #94
joe_jeep
welfare wheeler
 
joe_jeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-03-06
Location: hazel park, mi
Posts: 5,862
iTrader: (37)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to joe_jeep
Default

"I believe that Palin's use violent language towards political opponents
helped convince the shooter to commit the crime."

i think that pretty much explains your position.

personally i doubt this "left wing wacko" was watching or listening to Sara Palin, Hannity, or Rush.
joe_jeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 07:32 PM   #95
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,878
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_jeep View Post
"I believe that Palin's use violent language towards political opponents
helped convince the shooter to commit the crime."

i think that pretty much explains your position.

personally i doubt this "left wing wacko" was watching or listening to Sara Palin, Hannity, or Rush.
Do pure left wingers complain about going off the gold standard?

Do pure left wingers talk about how they can't trust the government?

http://www.alternet.org/story/149466...tremist?page=1

I'm not saying he's a lefty or a righty, but based on what we know about him, he could have been influenced by ideas from either side. He was clearly anti-government, it was an assassination to him (evident from writings found in his room).
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 08:13 PM   #96
mideerslayer
NEVER GIVE UP!
 
mideerslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-27-06
Location: Clinton Township
Posts: 3,865
iTrader: (30)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre View Post
These people all had one thing in common; they were all products of a fucked up mental health system who KNEW they were crazy, KNEW they were dangerous and KNEW they were ticking time bombs. Not one of them were EVER locked up in a mental health facility for longer than 72 hours. I could cite nearly 30 years of examples and that's just from my perspective, from where I've worked. Think about the big picture of the ENTIRE NATION and the thousands and thousands of crazy, dangerous people out there.

Blame the gun, blame the other party, blame the left, blame the right...whatever. It's laughable. How about we lock up crazy people and keep them away from the rest of us?

Crazy people are C-R-A-Z-Y!!!!!!!!!! They don't live in reality. Going around and blaming others for what crazy people do is insanity. You people are clueless.

This is the honest truth right here.

People are allowing other people to come up with excuses and to point the blame at something or someone, when in fct it is the nut job's themselves that is to blame

I have listened to both sided of the political tv/radio and they both can push buttons and say stuff to piss u off, but it is only speech.

You have to make the choice on your own to make something happen, and if you are off your rocker,listening to the Barney song could push you over the edge.

The world has turned in to a point the finger at someone other then the person that is doing the action.

Ok I am done, I am going to eat dinner with my rubber fork and sing barney songs
mideerslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 08:14 PM   #97
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,269
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

After watching left wing tv I figured out why liberals thinks as they do.

aber61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 08:26 PM   #98
General Motors
Fuck cancer
 
General Motors's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-02-08
Location: Rothbury, Michigan
Posts: 236
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

[QUOTE=mideerslayer;2498331]This is the honest truth right here.
The world has turned in to a point the finger at someone other then the person that is doing the action.
General Motors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 08:44 PM   #99
dreezy
Haggard Fab
 
dreezy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-28-08
Location: Holland Mi
Posts: 10,344
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to dreezy Send a message via MSN to dreezy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Since you can't let go of your left wing bashing, show me some recent acts of violence caused by left wingers that you feel is caused by the violent left wing rhetoric.
So violent left winger rhetoric is ok but violent right winger is not
__________________
"you think you're precious, I think you're shit."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Ryan, if I wanted any shit from you, I'd go looking for Leah's strap-on.
dreezy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2011, 09:08 PM   #100
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,878
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreezy View Post
So violent left winger rhetoric is ok but violent right winger is not
No, how on earth did you get that from what I said?
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:46 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.45785 seconds with 81 queries