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Old December 27th, 2010, 09:53 PM   #1
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Default Death Panels back in Health Care

Doctors to be paid to give advise to elderly on end of life care.

Thanks MIke
Here is your proof:)

http://www.lifenews.com/2010/12/27/bio-3235/

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Old December 27th, 2010, 09:57 PM   #2
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Doctors to be paid to give advise to elderly on end of life care.
You forgot the link to a crackpot website.

Also, you're setting this up wrong off the bat. Having doctors give advice is not how the right wing portrayed the "death panels". They portrayed a panel of people giving either a thumbs up or down on whether or not someone would live.
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Old December 28th, 2010, 10:40 AM   #3
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You forgot the link to a crackpot website.

Also, you're setting this up wrong off the bat. Having doctors give advice is not how the right wing portrayed the "death panels". They portrayed a panel of people giving either a thumbs up or down on whether or not someone would live.
Same information was in the crack pot NY Times a few days ago. Elderly and especially the elderly that are ill, can be influenced pretty easy, especially by a doctor. Therefore the doctor could give a thumbs up or thumbs down. Also there has been discussion about the panel having the authority to withhold treatment if they feel it's a waste of time, and they make the determination that the person is going to die soon anyway.
Bottom line on this is Oblabla lied
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Old December 28th, 2010, 10:57 AM   #4
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Nothing new here.....

They already exist!

Anyone that has had to deal with BCBS knows!!!!!!
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Old December 29th, 2010, 08:37 AM   #5
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http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/obam...id/381043?s=al
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Old December 29th, 2010, 10:31 AM   #6
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You forgot the link to a crackpot website.

Also, you're setting this up wrong off the bat. Having doctors give advice is not how the right wing portrayed the "death panels". They portrayed a panel of people giving either a thumbs up or down on whether or not someone would live.
I guess if it's not in the huffington post, a real legit source of news, it's not legit.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 01:32 PM   #7
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Same information was in the crack pot NY Times a few days ago. Elderly and especially the elderly that are ill, can be influenced pretty easy, especially by a doctor. Therefore the doctor could give a thumbs up or thumbs down. Also there has been discussion about the panel having the authority to withhold treatment if they feel it's a waste of time, and they make the determination that the person is going to die soon anyway.
Bottom line on this is Oblabla lied
I agree, the real fear about "death panels" was that people were going to be consigned to an early death. The stuff about end of life counseling comes across as unseemly because we know the concern is cutting costs. If this were done in a different context, maybe people wouldn't have such a problem with it. Doctors should counsel on everything, including end of life.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 02:22 PM   #8
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So, end of life counseling shouldn't happen, or if it does happen it shouldn't be an evil doctor doing it?
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Old December 29th, 2010, 02:25 PM   #9
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So, end of life counseling shouldn't happen, or if it does happen it shouldn't be an evil doctor doing it?
I am not for universal health care but I think a patient should be advised of their projected quality of life rather than just keeping someone alive for no reason when they are brain dead or suffering and will not get better.
The doctor counseled my family when my grandma was dying of lymphoma and helped ease and speed her passing.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 02:29 PM   #10
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I am not for universal health care but I think a patient should be advised of their projected quality of life rather than just keeping someone alive for no reason when they are brain dead or suffering and will not get better.
The doctor counseled my family when my grandma was dying of lymphoma and helped ease and speed her passing.
apparently, you are pro-death panel, then.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 05:40 PM   #11
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Do something to prolong their life and make em more comfortable and maybe give them more time.... or do very little(to save money) and watch them go quickly
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Old December 29th, 2010, 06:58 PM   #12
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Do something to prolong their life and make em more comfortable and maybe give them more time.... or do very little(to save money) and watch them go quickly
If they are in pain or otherwise have no quality of life then prolonging life would not make them more comfortable. Letting them die more quickly is not always about saving money, sometimes it's about ending misery when there is no hope of real recovery.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 07:49 PM   #13
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If they are in pain or otherwise have no quality of life then prolonging life would not make them more comfortable. Letting them die more quickly is not always about saving money, sometimes it's about ending misery when there is no hope of real recovery.
With pain we can get pain killers for that. As for quality of life.... were do we draw that line? Some may look at quality of life different than others. Somebody in a wheelchair and partially disabled may enjoy the life they have. But to others may see that as poor quality of life. Care givers such as family members caring for aging parents in poor health, cancer, aulzimer(sp). Some may see that as poor quality of life because they need to be cared for. Family members do recieve a great deal out of caring for aging parents if they are so inclined to do so. Many just put them in old age homes and let others do the work.
Do we allow the government to make those decisions for us?
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Old December 29th, 2010, 09:31 PM   #14
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With pain we can get pain killers for that. As for quality of life.... were do we draw that line? Some may look at quality of life different than others. Somebody in a wheelchair and partially disabled may enjoy the life they have. But to others may see that as poor quality of life. Care givers such as family members caring for aging parents in poor health, cancer, aulzimer(sp). Some may see that as poor quality of life because they need to be cared for. Family members do recieve a great deal out of caring for aging parents if they are so inclined to do so. Many just put them in old age homes and let others do the work.
Do we allow the government to make those decisions for us?
When my grandma was sick she wanted to go. In fact we discussed it with her and she decided she didnt want to suffer anymore. There are times when even the moraphine drip isnt enough to ease the pain enough. I hope to god you never have to live through seeing your relative waste away to the shell of the person they once were to the point they are asking to die, but if you do then maybe you can have an intelligent opinion.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 10:49 PM   #15
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When my grandma was sick she wanted to go. In fact we discussed it with her and she decided she didnt want to suffer anymore. There are times when even the moraphine drip isnt enough to ease the pain enough. I hope to god you never have to live through seeing your relative waste away to the shell of the person they once were to the point they are asking to die, but if you do then maybe you can have an intelligent opinion.
My mother in law died of cancer in our home. I watched and help care for her throughout the entire ordeal. A person can learn alot about a loved one when they are on thier deathbed. You gain insight into what they think about life and death. Going through the daily routines of care are trying and difficult. The pain we all went through was difficult, but not as difficult as watching her die. It brought me much closer to her and helped understand her want and need to live. Which our family did, and try to make her time as comfortable as possible. This entire ordeal taught us so much about death and life and how presious life is to both parties the ones staying and the one leaving. We coud have had taken her to the hospital and they would have kept her alive longer and put her through more but my motherinlaw wanted to be at home with her family. We cared for her until God took her home. In a final breath she looked at all of us and closed her eyes and breathed her last breath.

Was that intelligent enough for you?

I have been through this and understand quite well to watch a family member suffer. It is not good to watch but what do we do? Put them out of their misery at the first sign of discomfort?
What about a person with deppression, and they are tried and want to go, do we give them a shot to put them out of thier misery? A person with a mental disorder wants to die, do we allow that ?
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Old December 30th, 2010, 07:40 AM   #16
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With pain we can get pain killers for that. As for quality of life.... were do we draw that line? Some may look at quality of life different than others. Somebody in a wheelchair and partially disabled may enjoy the life they have. But to others may see that as poor quality of life. Care givers such as family members caring for aging parents in poor health, cancer, aulzimer(sp). Some may see that as poor quality of life because they need to be cared for. Family members do recieve a great deal out of caring for aging parents if they are so inclined to do so. Many just put them in old age homes and let others do the work.
Do we allow the government to make those decisions for us?
No, we should not allow the government. And if you would stop listening to idiots like Sarah Palin you would see that no one if suggesting that they should.

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My mother in law died of cancer in our home. I watched and help care for her throughout the entire ordeal. A person can learn alot about a loved one when they are on thier deathbed. You gain insight into what they think about life and death. Going through the daily routines of care are trying and difficult. The pain we all went through was difficult, but not as difficult as watching her die. It brought me much closer to her and helped understand her want and need to live. Which our family did, and try to make her time as comfortable as possible. This entire ordeal taught us so much about death and life and how presious life is to both parties the ones staying and the one leaving. We coud have had taken her to the hospital and they would have kept her alive longer and put her through more but my motherinlaw wanted to be at home with her family. We cared for her until God took her home. In a final breath she looked at all of us and closed her eyes and breathed her last breath.

Was that intelligent enough for you?

I have been through this and understand quite well to watch a family member suffer. It is not good to watch but what do we do? Put them out of their misery at the first sign of discomfort?
What about a person with deppression, and they are tried and want to go, do we give them a shot to put them out of thier misery? A person with a mental disorder wants to die, do we allow that ?
No, we allow the doctors to get paid to sit down with the patient and family and discuss the treatment options. We let patients and the family decide which treatment is right. We let them decide if they will be treated in a hospital and have their lives stretched out as long as possible or if they will go home to be with their families as much as possible in their final days.

"death panels" are a figment of Sarah Palin's imagination to try to scare people. No one else is suggesting any such thing.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 08:09 AM   #17
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You don't believe that care will be rationed. The first to feel the effects of this will be the elderly and very sick. Long wait times to see doctors and to get appointments. It is happening in Canada as we speak. Very poor health care coming to a city near you, if the is not repealed.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 08:40 AM   #18
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You don't believe that care will be rationed. The first to feel the effects of this will be the elderly and very sick. Long wait times to see doctors and to get appointments. It is happening in Canada as we speak. Very poor health care coming to a city near you, if the is not repealed.
I believe that health care always has been, is now, and always will be rationed. The current means of rationing is based on ability to pay. Other possible means of rationing might be based treating the maximum number of people and leaving the ones that need to most treatment until last, or treating the sickest ones first, or based on how valuable someone is considered to society, or any number of other criteria. But the simple fact is that our ability to treat people is starting to exceed our ability, as a society, to pay for it. Health care costs have continued to climb relative to nearly everything else. We cannot continue down that path. At some point we will have to make some tough decisions regarding who, and what to treat. I do not think we can afford to treat everyone for everything.

But please explain what that has to do with allowing doctors to be able to bill for their time spent counseling patients and their families regarding end of life options?
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Old December 30th, 2010, 11:24 AM   #19
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You don't believe that care will be rationed. The first to feel the effects of this will be the elderly and very sick. Long wait times to see doctors and to get appointments. It is happening in Canada as we speak. Very poor health care coming to a city near you, if the is not repealed.
Where does what you are saying above have any tie at all to universal health care. I am against universal health care 100%. We already have plans for the poor and elderly.
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Old December 30th, 2010, 05:23 PM   #20
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Where does what you are saying above have any tie at all to universal health care. I am against universal health care 100%. We already have plans for the poor and elderly.
I believe that if Obamacare goes through our health care system will overload.
The doctors that are caring for their patients will get bogged down with more work. The government will limit how much time they are to spend per patient as to what the doctor gets paid. Overall care for the patient will decrease.
I also believe that there will be shortage of doctors. I read somewhere that 40% of doctors will give up private practice, retire or find a different field of work.
I am with you on the whole obama care thing, against it 100%
With the government into medicaid and medicare the poor and elderly get the short end of it already. How do you think it will be when that system is overloaded with 30 million more people.
Its a lose lose situation for people that require medical help and the people that don't.
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