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Old April 28th, 2011, 08:25 AM   #781
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Originally Posted by jeepbrattt View Post
99+ maybe....mines a 93


I paid Jim to do the job and gave him the info on what I was running, I absolutely put it in his lap. I paid the man to do the job because I can't. It's not like he messed up 1 thing. The entire job was botched. If I pay someone to do a job it is then THEIR responsabilty to do the research. NOT MINE..........but I will NOT take the blame for lack of research when that's what i paid someone else to do.

I sooo feel your pain. I was in the same boat with mine. paid someone to get the whole swap correct and run the way I wanted it to and it was nothing but a nightmare when I got it back. had to pay another shop to make it right and I can now enjoy it.

good luck and keep your chin up. little more patience and you'll be good to go
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Old April 28th, 2011, 08:33 AM   #782
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I sooo feel your pain. I was in the same boat with mine. paid someone to get the whole swap correct and run the way I wanted it to and it was nothing but a nightmare when I got it back. had to pay another shop to make it right and I can now enjoy it.

good luck and keep your chin up. little more patience and you'll be good to go
Please don't give her that encoragement. I'm trying to buy it off her cheap.
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Old April 28th, 2011, 08:35 AM   #783
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Yep, They checked that at the Badlands. All good

Pulling code po171......will get that all worked out with the tune

*** This is where she will be going to fix the computer issues. http://howellefi.com/
about time you took my advice, and stopped working with somebody out of state who could not physically work on your pos.
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Old April 28th, 2011, 09:18 AM   #784
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alpine also makes some sweet decks..maybe a dvd w a flip up screen.


i have heard every day what is going on and jim's definetly did not take the time and do there job.
i keep telling her that everyone goes through this when doing a swap like she did..(everyone i know that has done this has had issues w something)it will work out.
tranny tom knows his shit and i hear the guys at howel know there's. so i am sure it will get figured out.
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Old April 28th, 2011, 09:37 AM   #785
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alpine also makes some sweet decks..maybe a dvd w a flip up screen.


i have heard every day what is going on and jim's definetly did not take the time and do there job.
i keep telling her that everyone goes through this when doing a swap like she did..(everyone i know that has done this has had issues w something)it will work out.
tranny tom knows his shit and i hear the guys at howel know there's. so i am sure it will get figured out.
Truth hurts.
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Old April 28th, 2011, 09:49 AM   #786
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I wasn't aware that propane injection could shift transmissions..........hmmmmm I say go propane injection

99+4L80e is designed for the pcm OS your using, just sayin. Pretty unfair to blame Jim for your lack of research before sourcing parts IMO.
Really? They make full manual kits and stand alone controllers for the 4L80E. You'll have to do better than that. Hijack over.
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Old April 28th, 2011, 09:50 AM   #787
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According to the casting number on the trans it is a 1993.

Beginning in 1994, the 4L80-E transmission was built with a new Force Motor (pressure control solenoid), new Spacer Plate, and they eliminated the torque signal compensator valve in the accumulator housing. The new force motor operates at the 614 Hz instead of the previous 292.5 Hz, which requires a different PCM program. With the new design force motor, the need for the cleaning cycle is eliminated, so the force motor is no longer pulsed every 10 seconds by the PCM/TCM. The case connector and wiring is the same for 1993 and up 4L80Es, so she is safe there and doesn't have to change any wiring.

The different force motor may be the issue that Becky is having with the trans. Also the 95-96 and up uses a nss which this one does not have. I also noticed no VSS wires on the t.case and no wiring on the t.case switch . The trans can use the output shaft speed sensor, but how is it going to shift in 4 low? I'm hoping Troy can make a program to run the earlier trans, if not, she may have to swap to a newer valve body or make this one full manual.

I'm still researching so don't freak out Becky.

Here are some pics I took last night to replace the tiny poopy ones in this thread.











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Old April 28th, 2011, 09:54 AM   #788
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Really? They make full manual kits and stand alone controllers for the 4L80E. You'll have to do better than that. Hijack over.
Does she have those things?

I'm sure you'll love it once it's all worked out. Good tech in this thread, lots of my bs too so I'll stop now. Sorry for the inconvience.
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Old April 28th, 2011, 09:59 AM   #789
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that was some info there tom.
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Old April 28th, 2011, 11:19 AM   #790
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Originally Posted by jeepbrattt View Post
Jackass!

It's not fixed yet, Tom's going to work his majic then I have to take it down to Troy in Marine City for the computer/tuning part. THEN......HOPEFULLY!!!!.......It will be all set.



Yes.......Fuck Cancer
Troy WILL get it straightened out for you!! He's a great Tech guy and Howell is a great company!! I've been working with them for years!!
Good luck!


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Old April 28th, 2011, 11:51 AM   #791
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Originally Posted by Tranny Tom View Post
According to the casting number on the trans it is a 1993.

Beginning in 1994, the 4L80-E transmission was built with a new Force Motor (pressure control solenoid), new Spacer Plate, and they eliminated the torque signal compensator valve in the accumulator housing. The new force motor operates at the 614 Hz instead of the previous 292.5 Hz, which requires a different PCM program. With the new design force motor, the need for the cleaning cycle is eliminated, so the force motor is no longer pulsed every 10 seconds by the PCM/TCM. The case connector and wiring is the same for 1993 and up 4L80Es, so she is safe there and doesn't have to change any wiring.

The different force motor may be the issue that Becky is having with the trans. Also the 95-96 and up uses a nss which this one does not have. I also noticed no VSS wires on the t.case and no wiring on the t.case switch . The trans can use the output shaft speed sensor, but how is it going to shift in 4 low? I'm hoping Troy can make a program to run the earlier trans, if not, she may have to swap to a newer valve body or make this one full manual.

I'm still researching so don't freak out Becky.

Here are some pics I took last night to replace the tiny poopy ones in this thread.











Attachment 78179

Attachment 78180

Attachment 78181

Attachment 78182
the whole t case speed sensor thing seems wierd to me. maybe tranny tom can shed some light on it. jims harness came back with no plug on the harness for the vss. when i asked him about it he said it is not needed on a 4l80e because it has two speed sensors on the trans. then he said there is a wire coming off the computer that can be grounded and it will change the shift points, but he says she would not need to do it. that was after he asked me the gear ratio and tire size.
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Old April 28th, 2011, 12:07 PM   #792
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the whole t case speed sensor thing seems wierd to me. maybe tranny tom can shed some light on it. jims harness came back with no plug on the harness for the vss. when i asked him about it he said it is not needed on a 4l80e because it has two speed sensors on the trans. then he said there is a wire coming off the computer that can be grounded and it will change the shift points, but he says she would not need to do it. that was after he asked me the gear ratio and tire size.
The 2wd version of the 4L80E uses the 2 speed sensors on the side of the trans and does not have a vss. The 4wd versions block the hole for the output sensor (with a dummy sensor), and use the output/vss sensor. When you are in 2wd high and 4wd high the ratio between the trans and t.case is 1:1. When you select 4 low, the ratio between the output of the trans and t.case change. If I remember correctly a 241 is 2.72:1 low range. So, the output of the trans is spinning faster (2.72 times faster) making the computer think it is going almost 3 times faster than it really is. This is where the 4 low switch and that wire Jim added comes into play.

*edit
I think I have seen some late model 4x4s use both speed sensors as well as a Vss but I could be wrong.

Last edited by Tranny Tom; April 28th, 2011 at 12:11 PM.
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Old April 28th, 2011, 01:04 PM   #793
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Originally Posted by Tranny Tom View Post
The 2wd version of the 4L80E uses the 2 speed sensors on the side of the trans and does not have a vss. The 4wd versions block the hole for the output sensor (with a dummy sensor), and use the output/vss sensor. When you are in 2wd high and 4wd high the ratio between the trans and t.case is 1:1. When you select 4 low, the ratio between the output of the trans and t.case change. If I remember correctly a 241 is 2.72:1 low range. So, the output of the trans is spinning faster (2.72 times faster) making the computer think it is going almost 3 times faster than it really is. This is where the 4 low switch and that wire Jim added comes into play.

*edit
I think I have seen some late model 4x4s use both speed sensors as well as a Vss but I could be wrong.
You are correct, late model 4l80e uses input and output speed senors on the trans and VSS on the tcase.
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Old April 28th, 2011, 02:40 PM   #794
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Talked to Tom, he is going to give Troy a call down at Howell and the 2 of them i'm sure will figure out the best route to go. This has been way more $$ ,time and stress then I signed up for..... but at least it's back at home now and everything is in working order.Sorting out the computer/trans issue is better then realizing the motor or trans is no good right? Im REALLY, REALLY trying to think "glass half full" over here. Thanks for the help guys.
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Old April 28th, 2011, 02:41 PM   #795
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Please don't give her that encoragement. I'm trying to buy it off her cheap.

Do I need to come up there??!!
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Old April 28th, 2011, 03:02 PM   #796
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You'll get it Becky!

Can't wait to hear the pipes singing
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Old April 28th, 2011, 03:17 PM   #797
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about time you took my advice, and stopped working with somebody out of state who could not physically work on your pos.
I don't remember you chiming in when we were discussing where to go with the comp/harnass....
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Old April 28th, 2011, 03:37 PM   #798
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Please don't give her that encoragement. I'm trying to buy it off her cheap.

my bad!
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Old April 28th, 2011, 03:43 PM   #799
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Do I need to come up there??!!
I think that's his idea, you go up there and drop off the jeep.
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Old April 28th, 2011, 05:10 PM   #800
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Tom talked to Troy at Howell today. He says he has programs to make the 93 4l80 work with the newer computer. Not an issue. Tom may have to add or change a couple wires for the torque converter and that is that. I'll have it tuned while it's there to see why it's pulling that 171 code and make sure all is working and reading correctly.

Tonite the stereo will be set up to run just on an ipod. Thanks Zac for coming out to do that. Can't wait to see how well that works.
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