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Old February 5th, 2011, 07:15 AM   #301
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I don't know what engine you had in your 69 Camaro but if it was a vintage engine, it was running at 6 psi with no regulator or return line. Now you will be running at 60 psi, require a regulator and return line. It's a huge difference.

Why will you need a new fuel pump when you go to a fuel cell? Fuel cells can utilize an in tank pump.

I'm not saying that an external pump won't work. But, I never found a good setup. I talked to a lot of people and tried a variety of pumps. I spent hundreds of dollars experimenting. ALL OF THEM ran hot and eventually quit after a period of time. The advantage of the in tank pump is that the gasoline keeps them cool. Plus, most pumps are designed to push fuel, not pull fuel. Diaphragm pumps fail quickly when pulling. Yes, the gerotor style pumps are a mechanical pump that pulls but those are the ones that ran hot.

With luck, you are getting good advice from someone that has a good working system.
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Old February 5th, 2011, 07:46 AM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
I don't know what engine you had in your 69 Camaro but if it was a vintage engine, it was running at 6 psi with no regulator or return line. Now you will be running at 60 psi, require a regulator and return line. It's a huge difference.

Why will you need a new fuel pump when you go to a fuel cell? Fuel cells can utilize an in tank pump.

I'm not saying that an external pump won't work. But, I never found a good setup. I talked to a lot of people and tried a variety of pumps. I spent hundreds of dollars experimenting. ALL OF THEM ran hot and eventually quit after a period of time. The advantage of the in tank pump is that the gasoline keeps them cool. Plus, most pumps are designed to push fuel, not pull fuel. Diaphragm pumps fail quickly when pulling. Yes, the gerotor style pumps are a mechanical pump that pulls but those are the ones that ran hot.

With luck, you are getting good advice from someone that has a good working system.
Yes, the same pump could be ran in a fuel cell. Didn't the external pumps try to ruin at least 2 of your wheeling trips before you switched?
If you want to compete with this thing then it would be a real bummer to get all the way to a comp (spend the money) just to get sidelined at the worst time over a known problem.
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Old February 5th, 2011, 07:53 AM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
I don't know what engine you had in your 69 Camaro but if it was a vintage engine, it was running at 6 psi with no regulator or return line. Now you will be running at 60 psi, require a regulator and return line. It's a huge difference.

Why will you need a new fuel pump when you go to a fuel cell? Fuel cells can utilize an in tank pump.

I'm not saying that an external pump won't work. But, I never found a good setup. I talked to a lot of people and tried a variety of pumps. I spent hundreds of dollars experimenting. ALL OF THEM ran hot and eventually quit after a period of time. The advantage of the in tank pump is that the gasoline keeps them cool. Plus, most pumps are designed to push fuel, not pull fuel. Diaphragm pumps fail quickly when pulling. Yes, the gerotor style pumps are a mechanical pump that pulls but those are the ones that ran hot.

With luck, you are getting good advice from someone that has a good working system.
Wasn't the original motor, but still older, had a modified 396 in it.

I didn't realize you could use the same pump for a fuel cell. Good to know, however, I did some reading on pirate and found that a lot of prople were saying it was a complete pain in the ass to get the pump into the tank and there was a lot of modifying needed. I'll see tomorrow if I can find that thread. (no time today, kids 16 bday party at my place...ugh)
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Old February 5th, 2011, 08:28 AM   #304
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I am not trying to argue.
Just an old fart who has built a couple fuel systems (not for a LS) and had enough failures to learn from. (And I will continue to learn cause I still do not know much)
Your stock tank sender/fuel pump can be removed and a replacement installed to feed that LS.
GenRite makes a ring for the top of a tank that a Jeep style sender will mount to. Have one in the fuel cell in my POS. The sender/fuel pump hanger will allow about 4" of variation in tank depth so it should adapt to about any cell..

BTW- Bet you throw a great party!
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Old February 7th, 2011, 07:22 AM   #305
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Headers are supposed to be to Kevins today and comp/harness being sent out to Jimsperformance this afternoon.

Decided on the Airtex E8248 for a fuel pump. Jim, I know you are set against external pumps, worse case .....this one can be moved to in the tank.

Bryce....thanks for taking the time to help out a newbie
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Old February 7th, 2011, 09:21 AM   #306
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Just remember, I will NEVER say I told you so.
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Old February 7th, 2011, 01:55 PM   #307
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why ask if you are just going to do the opposite
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one of Michigans 99% er club.
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Old February 7th, 2011, 02:14 PM   #308
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Quote:
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why ask if you are just going to do the opposite
Like was stated above, if I have overheating issues this pump can be moved to in the tank.

internal or external fuel pump??? - Page 2 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

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Old February 8th, 2011, 07:21 AM   #309
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Radiator...http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Griffi...Core,3555.html


Not sure if the size is right, have to get dimensions that will fit my jeep to be sure. Think this is a decent price? I don't have the unlimited income like some of you high rollers.
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Old February 8th, 2011, 07:51 AM   #310
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I went with this one for my CJ8. Not sure if the grill opening is the same on the CJ and TJ.

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performan...52036/10002/-1

The reason I did this one is it is a double pass. The fluid enters the top passenger side, flows to the drivers side, drops to the bottom half and flows back to the passenger side. This puts both the input and output on the passenger side, which matches better what the engine outputs are.

You can do that style, just need to route a longer hose for the top one.
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Old February 8th, 2011, 12:37 PM   #311
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JEGS Performance Products 52035 Double Pass Racing Radiator 22" w x 19" h Overall 16" w x 17-1/2" h Core Double Pass Lightweight Aluminum Racing Radiator with Passenger Side Inlet/Outlet Item# 555-52035 Ships 02/11/11 Only $229.99


or.....




Speedway Double Pass Aluminum Radiator, Chevy
Price: $179.99

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Old February 8th, 2011, 03:33 PM   #312
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I have an external pump on my rig and my last rig also. Its a ford f250 frame rail pump that is like 80 dollars and have never had a problem and they are always in stock at advanced auto.
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Old February 8th, 2011, 04:22 PM   #313
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I have an external pump on my rig and my last rig also. Its a ford f250 frame rail pump that is like 80 dollars and have never had a problem and they are always in stock at advanced auto.
Yeah, the e2000 and e8248 pumps I believe are Ford van pumps...
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Old February 8th, 2011, 07:18 PM   #314
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I mentioned it on pirate but i dont remember if I said it here.... The E8248 made by Airtex can be mounted in the tank or on the rail. I called Airtex to see if it was possible and they said it is the exact same as an in tank pump with a different inlet.

I cant seem to find a picture of my setup..... I'm going to dig deeper!
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Old February 8th, 2011, 07:25 PM   #315
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Burried somewhere on gl4x4.... found the pic, just not where it's home is!

Behold the perfection! not really... but it's good enough to get me going until some issues show up.

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Old February 8th, 2011, 08:25 PM   #316
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Quote:
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I have an external pump on my rig and my last rig also. Its a ford f250 frame rail pump that is like 80 dollars and have never had a problem and they are always in stock at advanced auto.
Yeah, frame rail pumps work fine if you don't wheel hard.
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Old February 8th, 2011, 10:22 PM   #317
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headers showed up here today. sandersons bare steel. the pass side doesn't fit round the novak motor mount. sucks, thats the only motor mount that fit worth a crap. for some reason i thought becky was buying novak headers. for anyone doing a ls swap, i wouldn't go with the novak mounts.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 06:21 AM   #318
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Quote:
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headers showed up here today. sandersons bare steel. the pass side doesn't fit round the novak motor mount. sucks, thats the only motor mount that fit worth a crap. for some reason i thought becky was buying novak headers. for anyone doing a ls swap, i wouldn't go with the novak mounts.
I called Novak and placed the order so i could ask them specifically if these would work with those mounts, his answer was "absolutely". The mounts were on back order because they redesigned them this year......looks like that was a bad idea for them.....and in turn for me.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 06:32 AM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95geo View Post
Burried somewhere on gl4x4.... found the pic, just not where it's home is!

Behold the perfection! not really... but it's good enough to get me going until some issues show up.

Is that fuel filter going to sit inside the tank?

I will probably be building a fuel system like this for my TJ because i do not want to lose any interior space.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 06:43 AM   #320
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Wierd, mine appears to clear OK, although I did more test fitting on my drivers side. I will take a look tonight. Mine is a CJ, maybe the mounts are different
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