. - Page 12 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Rig Builds and Pics
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Rig Builds and Pics Introduce your rig or post a buildup here.

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 3rd, 2011, 02:41 PM   #221
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,793
iTrader: (58)
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John D View Post
My research shows it's actually the Jeep regulator/filter that is causing the issue, not the pump. An unrestricted Jeep pump should be more than enough (personally I am using a Walbro 255LPH in tank). Go back a few posts and look at the pics I put up. Novak now sells that kits that replaces the Jeep filter/regulator with a flow through design.

Another option would be to tap the tank with a bulkhead type fitting and drop a pick-up line in the tank with an external in-line pump.

But until you get around the Jeep filter/regulator your fuel is going to be restricted.

Edit: By "unrestricted Jeep pump" I mean no Jeep regulator; you still need a regulator to keep it in the range the engine wants/needs.

Yes, but the point is that in the 03 redesign, the regulated rail went from 45psi to 58psi. So later models can hook up an LS motor with no other modifications...
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old February 3rd, 2011, 03:01 PM   #222
John D
Senior Member
 
John D's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-01-08
Location: Rockford, MI
Posts: 584
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
Yes, but the point is that in the 03 redesign, the regulated rail went from 45psi to 58psi. So later models can hook up an LS motor with no other modifications...
Missed that

Thanks!
John D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2011, 11:36 PM   #223
95geo
newbie
 
95geo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: dryden
Posts: 5,777
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Pressure is very important but maintaining that pressure at the maximum flow rate is the most important factor of all. I doubt a pump designed for 200hp can support the fuel needs for 400+hp. Airtex 8248- $100 bosch 044- $200 walbro 255- $175-200 It's a small price to pay to know your engine isn't going lean at WOT.
95geo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2011, 06:37 AM   #224
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 22,326
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Default

I have a Walbro.

With that, Walbro is a Michigan based company right here in Cass City. Let's support our own!
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2011, 07:50 AM   #225
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,793
iTrader: (58)
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
I have a Walbro.

With that, Walbro is a Michigan based company right here in Cass City. Let's support our own!
Haha, they downsized me out of the company 15 years ago by a post-it note on my monitor! That was before the CEO went down for embezzeling millions.
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2011, 09:35 AM   #226
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 22,326
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Default

My pump makes no noise. Since it's in my tank, I can't give you the part number.

Jason, sorry for the way it went down, but I still say support the local economy.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2011, 10:30 AM   #227
firehawk
Live Action!
 
firehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-02-07
Location: Clawson, Michigan
Posts: 12,851
iTrader: (43)
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepbrattt View Post
Was always told to run it with an extra quart even in the 4.0 because the oil pressure was never good in it.

Also because the pan got pretty caved in
I know this was a while ago but it just myth that running an engine with more oil will blow the seals or is that only if you way over fill it?
firehawk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2011, 02:12 PM   #228
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 22,326
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Default

I hope you have better luck than I have had with external pumps. I'm sold on in tank pumps.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2011, 07:01 AM   #229
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 22,326
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepbrattt View Post
Switching to a fuel cell next year .....and I had external pumps on my camaro years ago, never had an issue.
High pressure pump EFI system like you will have here or a low pressure system with no return line? Big difference.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2011, 07:11 AM   #230
Ironman Offroad
Cool parts peddler
 
Ironman Offroad's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-10
Location: Saginaw, Michigan
Posts: 1,561
iTrader: (12)
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
High pressure pump EFI system like you will have here or a low pressure system with no return line? Big difference.
Agreed.
Put the pump in the tank to be cooled and lubricated by the fuel.
Ironman Offroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2011, 08:15 AM   #231
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 22,326
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Default

I don't know what engine you had in your 69 Camaro but if it was a vintage engine, it was running at 6 psi with no regulator or return line. Now you will be running at 60 psi, require a regulator and return line. It's a huge difference.

Why will you need a new fuel pump when you go to a fuel cell? Fuel cells can utilize an in tank pump.

I'm not saying that an external pump won't work. But, I never found a good setup. I talked to a lot of people and tried a variety of pumps. I spent hundreds of dollars experimenting. ALL OF THEM ran hot and eventually quit after a period of time. The advantage of the in tank pump is that the gasoline keeps them cool. Plus, most pumps are designed to push fuel, not pull fuel. Diaphragm pumps fail quickly when pulling. Yes, the gerotor style pumps are a mechanical pump that pulls but those are the ones that ran hot.

With luck, you are getting good advice from someone that has a good working system.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2011, 08:46 AM   #232
Tab
Senior Member
 
Tab's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Freeland, mi
Posts: 4,931
iTrader: (29)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
I don't know what engine you had in your 69 Camaro but if it was a vintage engine, it was running at 6 psi with no regulator or return line. Now you will be running at 60 psi, require a regulator and return line. It's a huge difference.

Why will you need a new fuel pump when you go to a fuel cell? Fuel cells can utilize an in tank pump.

I'm not saying that an external pump won't work. But, I never found a good setup. I talked to a lot of people and tried a variety of pumps. I spent hundreds of dollars experimenting. ALL OF THEM ran hot and eventually quit after a period of time. The advantage of the in tank pump is that the gasoline keeps them cool. Plus, most pumps are designed to push fuel, not pull fuel. Diaphragm pumps fail quickly when pulling. Yes, the gerotor style pumps are a mechanical pump that pulls but those are the ones that ran hot.

With luck, you are getting good advice from someone that has a good working system.
Yes, the same pump could be ran in a fuel cell. Didn't the external pumps try to ruin at least 2 of your wheeling trips before you switched?
If you want to compete with this thing then it would be a real bummer to get all the way to a comp (spend the money) just to get sidelined at the worst time over a known problem.
Tab is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2011, 09:28 AM   #233
Ironman Offroad
Cool parts peddler
 
Ironman Offroad's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-10
Location: Saginaw, Michigan
Posts: 1,561
iTrader: (12)
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Default

I am not trying to argue.
Just an old fart who has built a couple fuel systems (not for a LS) and had enough failures to learn from. (And I will continue to learn cause I still do not know much)
Your stock tank sender/fuel pump can be removed and a replacement installed to feed that LS.
GenRite makes a ring for the top of a tank that a Jeep style sender will mount to. Have one in the fuel cell in my POS. The sender/fuel pump hanger will allow about 4" of variation in tank depth so it should adapt to about any cell..

BTW- Bet you throw a great party!
Ironman Offroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2011, 10:21 AM   #234
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 22,326
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Default

Just remember, I will NEVER say I told you so.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2011, 02:55 PM   #235
hosejockey4506
Visiting Admin
 
hosejockey4506's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: fenton
Posts: 8,848
iTrader: (43)
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Default

why ask if you are just going to do the opposite
hosejockey4506 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2011, 08:51 AM   #236
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,793
iTrader: (58)
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Default

I went with this one for my CJ8. Not sure if the grill opening is the same on the CJ and TJ.

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performan...52036/10002/-1

The reason I did this one is it is a double pass. The fluid enters the top passenger side, flows to the drivers side, drops to the bottom half and flows back to the passenger side. This puts both the input and output on the passenger side, which matches better what the engine outputs are.

You can do that style, just need to route a longer hose for the top one.
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2011, 04:33 PM   #237
cvwindows
I think I can make it!!!!
 
cvwindows's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-21-05
Location: Somerset Mi
Posts: 2,293
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

I have an external pump on my rig and my last rig also. Its a ford f250 frame rail pump that is like 80 dollars and have never had a problem and they are always in stock at advanced auto.
cvwindows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2011, 05:22 PM   #238
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,793
iTrader: (58)
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvwindows View Post
I have an external pump on my rig and my last rig also. Its a ford f250 frame rail pump that is like 80 dollars and have never had a problem and they are always in stock at advanced auto.
Yeah, the e2000 and e8248 pumps I believe are Ford van pumps...
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2011, 08:18 PM   #239
95geo
newbie
 
95geo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: dryden
Posts: 5,777
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I mentioned it on pirate but i dont remember if I said it here.... The E8248 made by Airtex can be mounted in the tank or on the rail. I called Airtex to see if it was possible and they said it is the exact same as an in tank pump with a different inlet.

I cant seem to find a picture of my setup..... I'm going to dig deeper!
95geo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2011, 08:25 PM   #240
95geo
newbie
 
95geo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: dryden
Posts: 5,777
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Burried somewhere on gl4x4.... found the pic, just not where it's home is!

Behold the perfection! not really... but it's good enough to get me going until some issues show up.

95geo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Rig Builds and Pics

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:39 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.28950 seconds with 81 queries