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Old January 24th, 2011, 08:56 PM   #181
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thats kinda what i thought. its mainly the back 4 cylinders and its the back of the intake that had a softball size piece missing.
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Old January 24th, 2011, 08:57 PM   #182
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A. You're not hard core enough to run your Jeep on it's side for more than a minute. Your soft.
B. As I highlighted........how do you know?
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Only by watching the oil pressure gauge. And the fact that the engine is still doing well after 4 years.

Back on topic, I hope there's no damage to Becky's engine.
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Old January 24th, 2011, 09:10 PM   #183
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Only by watching the oil pressure gauge. And the fact that the engine is still doing well after 4 years.

Back on topic, I hope there's no damage to Becky's engine.

You and me both Jim. Not a very happy camper right now
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Old January 24th, 2011, 09:17 PM   #184
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Well it's a serious question. I've run extremely steep rock climbs both up and down, have flopped it more than once and have been hung up and stationary while pulling cable. I wouldn't call the first ledge at Charlene's soft when it comes to angle. Not the greatest pics but all I have at the moment.

I'd have to put 6 qts in the system and then rotate it on the computer but I'd say even at that angle you stand a pretty good chance of maintaining some degree of oil pressure, but not forever. It's the nearly horizontal, running on you sidewalls for an exended peroid that will get you in trouble.
Remember too, you've got the shallow pan that I say is your best bet out of the chute. Only thing about the ledge @ Charlenes is it's short, make that ledge 6 times longer and bit steeper and you may start to have problems.
I would say that you'd be suprised what an engine can take. Remember my disaster May 31st 2009? Mine was UPSIDE DOWN running for over a minute. I pulled the caps and they looked like the day they were installed. Why? Running @ idle? Mains and rods getting 'splashed' oiled? who knows. I just wouldn't ever do that again. I got lucky.
I'm just saying that if you want to minimize engine damage, put a idiot light in there and respect it. OR see how big your nutz are......how long will you run it with the light on?
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Old January 24th, 2011, 09:25 PM   #185
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well, i just took the intake off beckys motor to swap on the new one (motor had a busted intake when she got it) and it isn't very pretty in there. the motor was definatley running when the intake broke and sucked a bunch of pieces in there. you can see right to the valves in a ls motor and can get some of the pieces out, but not sure if there is any that got between the pistons and valves? i think someone has been turning the motor over by hand because all the spark plugs have been out and are still loose. looks like a part of one of the injectors in there and the valves are very rusty. what do you guys think? here are some pics.
Holy shit! The yard I got it from (R & A Auto Salvage in Clare) said the back of the intake got broken while pulling it out of the H2 it came from. It was taped off and sealed pretty well when I got it. I peeked in there and what I saw looked fine so I stuffed a clean towel in and taped it off a little better while I was storing it. You're right, it was turned over by hand. It turned over nice and smoothly by hand just by grabbing the flexplate so I thought all was well. From time to time I squirted some oil and/or trans fluid in the spark plug holes and turned it over a few times(again turning the flexplate by hand) to keep things from rusting up or getting damaged. Hopefully you can just pull the heads, get the plastic out, and it'll be good to go. I can't imagine there being much damage considering how smoothly it turned over for me.
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Old January 24th, 2011, 09:26 PM   #186
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You and me both Jim. Not a very happy camper right now
For the price of a few head gaskets I'd pull them first. 'IF' you cold bore scope it through the sparkplug hole and assure there was no debris in each cylinder I'd do a cylinder leakdown and see where your at. That will show bent/burned/leaky valves if any and overall engine health.
Without a scope, you'll have to open it up.
I'd still do a leakdown after you're done to make sure you're not putting a junk motor in only to take it out in a few months.
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Old January 24th, 2011, 09:46 PM   #187
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Holy shit! The yard I got it from (R & A Auto Salvage in Clare) said the back of the intake got broken while pulling it out of the H2 it came from. It was taped off and sealed pretty well when I got it. I peeked in there and what I saw looked fine so I stuffed a clean towel in and taped it off a little better while I was storing it. You're right, it was turned over by hand. It turned over nice and smoothly by hand just by grabbing the flexplate so I thought all was well. From time to time I squirted some oil and/or trans fluid in the spark plug holes and turned it over a few times(again turning the flexplate by hand) to keep things from rusting up or getting damaged. Hopefully you can just pull the heads, get the plastic out, and it'll be good to go. I can't imagine there being much damage considering how smoothly it turned over for me.

No worries Sean, thanks for the texts offering to help out. Appreciated. I'm keeping a positive oulook here, a minor setback....will do what's needed to make sure it's fine. All I can do right?
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Old January 24th, 2011, 09:57 PM   #188
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well, i just took the intake off beckys motor to swap on the new one (motor had a busted intake when she got it) and it isn't very pretty in there. the motor was definatley running when the intake broke and sucked a bunch of pieces in there. you can see right to the valves in a ls motor and can get some of the pieces out, but not sure if there is any that got between the pistons and valves? i think someone has been turning the motor over by hand because all the spark plugs have been out and are still loose. looks like a part of one of the injectors in there and the valves are very rusty. what do you guys think? here are some pics.
The injector looking part is from the top of the intake.
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Old January 24th, 2011, 09:59 PM   #189
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Holy crap.
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Old January 25th, 2011, 06:34 AM   #190
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The injector looking part is from the top of the intake.
yeah, the red paret is from the top of the intake, but #6 cylinder has the bottom piece of the injector in it. hard to see. it was hard to get a light down there and get a good pic.
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Old January 25th, 2011, 08:09 AM   #191
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Good attitude Becky.

Jim, I've always run synthetic which gets changed way more often than needed. What's the lab tests show for helping out with momentary oil pressure drop?
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Old January 25th, 2011, 09:48 AM   #192
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i am glad kevin is doing this because i would have been pissed about now.
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Old January 25th, 2011, 10:49 AM   #193
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yeah, the red paret is from the top of the intake, but #6 cylinder has the bottom piece of the injector in it. hard to see. it was hard to get a light down there and get a good pic.

Is the injector from that engine? If so, why would anyone rotate an engine with a hole in the manifold where pieces were broke off and had fallen into the inlet port? No telling what crap in in there now.
Even if you CAN'T see the parts, broken shit doesn't 'fly out' when its broke. It falls IN.
The plus side of things is, you get to see any premature wear on the bearings and sawp them out now before it's to late later on. Like I said before, cheap insurance to open it up and look at both ends. Front/Rear cover and pan gaskets are reusable, just the head gaskets are expendable. AND you'll need new head bolts as they are one-time-use only.
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Old January 25th, 2011, 10:56 AM   #194
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Is the injector from that engine? If so, why would anyone rotate an engine with a hole in the manifold where pieces were broke off and had fallen into the inlet port? No telling what crap in in there now.
Even if you CAN'T see the parts, broken shit doesn't 'fly out' when its broke. It falls IN.
The plus side of things is, you get to see any premature wear on the bearings and sawp them out now before it's to late later on. Like I said before, cheap insurance to open it up and look at both ends. Front/Rear cover and pan gaskets are reusable, just the head gaskets are expendable. AND you'll need new head bolts as they are one-time-use only.
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Kevin will be doing the leakdown test. More of a time inconvenience then anything. I have another set of heads at my disposal if needed. Whatever needs be done will be done. All I can do right?
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Old January 25th, 2011, 11:02 AM   #195
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Old January 25th, 2011, 11:50 AM   #196
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Good attitude Becky.

Jim, I've always run synthetic which gets changed way more often than needed. What's the lab tests show for helping out with momentary oil pressure drop?
Synthetic has a very minute advantage over mineral based oils in the cavitation department. Not much else. All oil has to meet the minimum viscosity test and sheer whether it's synthetic or mineral based. Mineral based oil is getting better every year and I think there was a new class just released this year. So the gap is closing even further.
People change their oil WAY to often in my opinion. You can go 8000-10,000 without any problem. Just watch the level. Add as needed.

As far as running an engine out of oil pressure.....to many variables to even draw a line in the sand. If the engine is not under load there are experts say that an engine will run for quite a while. Like I said before, Just how long do you want to risk it? Idle I'd run 30-40 seconds with the light on. Loaded.....<10 seconds before I shut it down.
One of the 'stories' told around work is that in the early 70's one of the chief engineers emptied the oil out of a vehicle that came off the assembly line. They then drove it around Flint for 15 or more minutes without ANY oil pressure and it survived.
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Old January 25th, 2011, 12:01 PM   #197
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Is the injector from that engine? If so, why would anyone rotate an engine with a hole in the manifold where pieces were broke off and had fallen into the inlet port? No telling what crap in in there now.
Even if you CAN'T see the parts, broken shit doesn't 'fly out' when its broke. It falls IN.
The plus side of things is, you get to see any premature wear on the bearings and sawp them out now before it's to late later on. Like I said before, cheap insurance to open it up and look at both ends. Front/Rear cover and pan gaskets are reusable, just the head gaskets are expendable. AND you'll need new head bolts as they are one-time-use only.
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From what I remember all the injectors were intact. I was under the impression that the intake was broken off in 1 chunk in a NON-RUNNING condition since it was being pulled at the time. I was planning on pulling the heads and upgrading the gaskets and head bolts anyway since I was running a supercharger. Apparently I didn't see whatever debris is now in there and I sincerely apologized to Becky for that. But I think all you guys are doing at this point is freaking her out. Bearing damage? It was a non running engine that had plastic fall in it and get rotated freely by hand a couple times. Absolute worst case I can see would be a bent valve but even that seems pretty extreme for the little bit it was spun. The motor only has 15k miles on it according to the original seller. Yeah bearing damage is possible on any engine regardless of miles and exterior condition but the odds are low in this case. It's a used engine, for all we know it could've been in a vehicle that rolled and sat running for 10 minutes before the EMTs showed up. But to imply that it's got catastrophic damage from a couple pieces of plastic falling into it is piety extreme and is only going to serve to freak Becky out even more. It definitely doesn't hurt to check it out top to bottom as with any used engine, but It's bet money that it's fine
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Old January 25th, 2011, 12:10 PM   #198
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thats pretty much what i expect to find also. definatley not trying to point the finger at anybody. buying a used motor, you just never know and the only way to find out is to tear it apart. i would not expect to find anything wrong with the bottom end.
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Old January 25th, 2011, 12:19 PM   #199
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I'm not ragging on you I'm only saying It's out, it's accesable, it's got some 'potential' issues. No reason not to check it over top to bottom. I didn't imply catastrophic damage, only that it needs to be cleaned properly. And the only way to do it is take the heads off. While you're down that far, who wouldn't open it and take a peek.
Your comment about the injector still being intact is even scarrier.......how did the 'extra' injector get there then? You can't drop it in like an old carbureted engine could. Someone must have opened it up somewhere along the line. So it's potentially got a history you don't even know about.
No reason for Becky to be freaked out, just be cautious with so many yellow flags showing up.
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Old January 25th, 2011, 12:56 PM   #200
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I do not have an oil pressure indicator light. Not ever sure what it would take to wire it up at this point since I have a mechanical oil pressure gauge.
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