axle building jig - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Axle Tech
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 8th, 2010, 11:26 AM   #1
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,030
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default axle building jig

I am getting ready to build a set of 60's for my jeep so I would like to build a jig of some sort. My plan as of right now is a piece of 1 1/2 solid round that will go through the entire axle. I will make pieces that will mount where the locker mounts that the rod will slide through and something for the end of the tubes. Is this the easiest and most versatile way to do this? And do I need to go with 4140 rod or will hot or cold roll work? Thanks!
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 03:47 PM   #2
Jeeperz Creeperz
Senior Member
 
Jeeperz Creeperz's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Wyandotte, MI
Posts: 3,120
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via AIM to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via MSN to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via Yahoo to Jeeperz Creeperz
Default

Depends on what you're doing exactly, but tubes pressed into a center section and knuckles pressed onto tube tend to self-align themselves.
Jeeperz Creeperz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 04:52 PM   #3
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,030
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

I am planning on cutting the tubes by the center section and butt welding them back together. I have 2 hp ford 60's that I am building a rear and a pass drop front out of. I have one that is a 78-79 and the other is a 90ish. I want to run a d300 without doing a flip kit is my reason for doing pass drop.
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 05:11 PM   #4
buttercr125
I work out
 
buttercr125's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-10-09
Location: Fenton, mi
Posts: 2,561
iTrader: (26)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I don't think it would be a good idea to but weld them together. I would think that it would be too weak and prone to break. You would probably be better off pulling the tubes out of the center section and swapping them around. Just my $0.02
buttercr125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 05:24 PM   #5
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,030
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buttercr125 View Post
I don't think it would be a good idea to but weld them together. I would think that it would be too weak and prone to break. You would probably be better off pulling the tubes out of the center section and swapping them around. Just my $0.02
It is very strong welding them together if you know how to weld. It won't be any weaker than if it were straight tube. I am a pipewelder and i am used to doing x ray work. The fill wire I will use has a tensile strength of 80,000 pounds per square inch.
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 05:30 PM   #6
buttercr125
I work out
 
buttercr125's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-10-09
Location: Fenton, mi
Posts: 2,561
iTrader: (26)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadcooper55 View Post
It is very strong welding them together if you know how to weld. It won't be any weaker than if it were straight tube. I am a pipewelder and i am used to doing x ray work. The fill wire I will use has a tensile strength of 80,000 pounds per square inch.
Got ya. Well I still think it might be easier pulling the tubes and swapping them around but I could be wrong on that too.

I was thinking about doing the same thing. I have the same front axle and t-case.
buttercr125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 05:37 PM   #7
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,030
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buttercr125 View Post
Got ya. Well I still think it might be easier pulling the tubes and swapping them around but I could be wrong on that too.

I was thinking about doing the same thing. I have the same front axle and t-case.
I haven't talked to one person yet that has suggested pulling the tubes. Everyone has said to butt weld them.
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 05:50 PM   #8
jeepitupyo
MMM Shrimp Slushy
 
jeepitupyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-23-06
Location: Flint 48507
Posts: 1,978
iTrader: (25)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to jeepitupyo
Default

Why don't you find some tubing that fits good in the existing tubes and sleeve them. Then butt weld them. As long as the tubing fits good it with strengthen the tubes and locate them for you.
__________________
05 Silverado Crew Z71
00 XJ BDS Long Arms 35's
Beelby & Sons Towing
St. Pierre Inc. Machining and Welding
jeepitupyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 06:24 PM   #9
Fullsize4life
Kicking Cancers ASS
 
Fullsize4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-25-06
Location: Hart, Mi (next to silver lake)
Posts: 18,754
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

High pinion in the rear is a bad idea. But do what you like. I hate to see you cut up a 78-79 hp axle. You interested in a 90ish kp one to cut up instead?
Fullsize4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 06:32 PM   #10
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,030
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullsize4life View Post
High pinion in the rear is a bad idea. But do what you like. I hate to see you cut up a 78-79 hp axle. You interested in a 90ish kp one to cut up instead?
Why is hp in the rear a bad idea? The 79 has already been cut down also.
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 06:33 PM   #11
buttercr125
I work out
 
buttercr125's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-10-09
Location: Fenton, mi
Posts: 2,561
iTrader: (26)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullsize4life View Post
High pinion in the rear is a bad idea. But do what you like. I hate to see you cut up a 78-79 hp axle. You interested in a 90ish kp one to cut up instead?
X2 on the high pinion. Are you building a rear steer axle?
buttercr125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 07:13 PM   #12
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,030
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Not rear steer. 2 people say no rear hp but what is the reason? I have friends with the same combo and never have any issue with it.
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 07:17 PM   #13
jeepitupyo
MMM Shrimp Slushy
 
jeepitupyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-23-06
Location: Flint 48507
Posts: 1,978
iTrader: (25)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to jeepitupyo
Default

A high pinion rear is weaker then a low pinion. It's still stronger then a low pinion 44. If I ever upgrade my axles I will try a HP60 but they are a little harder to find and by then they might be impossible to find.
__________________
05 Silverado Crew Z71
00 XJ BDS Long Arms 35's
Beelby & Sons Towing
St. Pierre Inc. Machining and Welding
jeepitupyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 07:29 PM   #14
Skooter_Built
Fuck talk, Duck walk!
 
Skooter_Built's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Whitelake, MI
Posts: 14,497
iTrader: (26)
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Default

Like any axle HP's have their plus's and minus's. The are weaker cause your riding on the coast side of the gear. Like anything though, try hard enough and you'll break any axle. Ive got an aftermarket HP60 in the rear of my TJ (unfinished currently) but I had it in when the Jeep was drivable and had no issues with it.

As for the axles, many builders use an allignment bar when they modify axles. The bar goes through the carrier bareing supports then through the outers to ensure everything is properly alligned. Another good idea is to insert a sleeve between the 2 pieces of tube then butt welding everything back together.
__________________
I'm the man in White.

If you want peace, prepare for war!

Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
Skooter_Built is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 07:41 PM   #15
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,030
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skooter_Built View Post
Like any axle HP's have their plus's and minus's. The are weaker cause your riding on the coast side of the gear. Like anything though, try hard enough and you'll break any axle. Ive got an aftermarket HP60 in the rear of my TJ (unfinished currently) but I had it in when the Jeep was drivable and had no issues with it.

As for the axles, many builders use an allignment bar when they modify axles. The bar goes through the carrier bareing supports then through the outers to ensure everything is properly alligned. Another good idea is to insert a sleeve between the 2 pieces of tube then butt welding everything back together.
that was my thoughts on a jig. For what I am going to do with this jeep I think a hp will suite my needs. It will only see 37" tires. I want to be able to drive it on the road a little bit still. I plan on doing a buggy after I get this jeep going good.
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 09:46 PM   #16
jeepitupyo
MMM Shrimp Slushy
 
jeepitupyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-23-06
Location: Flint 48507
Posts: 1,978
iTrader: (25)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to jeepitupyo
Default

I don't see why hot or cold rolled wouldn't work. I think 4140 will be way too expensive. I'm not sure what the specs for straightness are on a piece of hot rolled. I know they aren't always perfectly round. You might want to check into some turned ground and polished steel. Then you know it will be straight and round from the get go. It should be cheaper then 4140 as well.


EDIT: apparently TGP isn't much more then cold rolled 1045
http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-1628-...d-000-001.aspx
http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-1656-...shed-1045.aspx
__________________
05 Silverado Crew Z71
00 XJ BDS Long Arms 35's
Beelby & Sons Towing
St. Pierre Inc. Machining and Welding

Last edited by jeepitupyo; November 8th, 2010 at 09:53 PM.
jeepitupyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 8th, 2010, 10:05 PM   #17
95geo
newbie
 
95geo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: dryden
Posts: 5,775
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Your idea for a "jig" should work.

Skooterbuilt has no business giving advice on anything except cross dressing. When you move past your OCD/add fueled part slinging and get a couple months of 4x4 use out of your parts you can start giving advice on ujoints tires and air cleaners.

If you plan on using a Dana 60 beyond what a Dana 44 would live with then you should think again about a HP 60 in the rear. It might not happen right away but at some point you'll probably have issues with it.

For what it's worth, I butt welded my dads rear axle tubes about 18" from the center section. It's 3.125x.5625" wall dom. Chamfered about 1/4" at 45 degrees on both sides and then triple pass welded them with TIG. Standard ER70S6 filler and about 150 amps. It hasn't broken yet but when it does I'll post pictures of the shitty welds for the web-fabricators to nit-pick. I wouldn't jump the vehicle repeatedly with that style of modification but for what he'll do with it, I'm sure it'll be fine.
95geo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2010, 05:00 AM   #18
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,030
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95geo View Post
Your idea for a "jig" should work.

Skooterbuilt has no business giving advice on anything except cross dressing. When you move past your OCD/add fueled part slinging and get a couple months of 4x4 use out of your parts you can start giving advice on ujoints tires and air cleaners.

If you plan on using a Dana 60 beyond what a Dana 44 would live with then you should think again about a HP 60 in the rear. It might not happen right away but at some point you'll probably have issues with it.

For what it's worth, I butt welded my dads rear axle tubes about 18" from the center section. It's 3.125x.5625" wall dom. Chamfered about 1/4" at 45 degrees on both sides and then triple pass welded them with TIG. Standard ER70S6 filler and about 150 amps. It hasn't broken yet but when it does I'll post pictures of the shitty welds for the web-fabricators to nit-pick. I wouldn't jump the vehicle repeatedly with that style of modification but for what he'll do with it, I'm sure it'll be fine.
Thanks 95geo, I really like the idea of the hp in the rear but if it is going to be too much of a strength issue I might have to start shopping for a 14b. One of the hp 60s that I have is bent and I picked it up for 50 buck so I figured it would be good to cut up for the rear. When you buttweld the tubes you would be better off grinding them to a 37 degree angle and right down to a knife edge Then knock the edge off with a file. Gap it with a piece of 3/32 rod and put 4 tacks on it. The gap will shrink a pinch from tacking it so lay your rod in the bevel and move nice and slow with the torch and just make sure you keep a small keyhole going. It will fill in behind you. This will result in a very nice root, Then fill and cap it. I would personally use er80s for the extra 10000 lbs of tinsile strength.
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2010, 05:07 AM   #19
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 21,293
iTrader: (21)
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Default

I know Pat (creative fab) butt welded his front 60 tube. He's wheeled it pretty good with no issues. RE rear hi-pinions, you could consider the true Hi-9 but it's pricey.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2010, 07:25 AM   #20
Tab
Senior Member
 
Tab's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Freeland, mi
Posts: 4,827
iTrader: (29)
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Default

also the mud truck I built a few years ago runs a centered 60 front and the tubes on them are butt welded (tig'ed, not by me) and it IS jumped and beat on and now its been in a few different chassis versions and is in the neighborhood of 1100-1300hp.
Tab is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Axle Tech

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:38 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.29582 seconds with 82 queries