Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!







Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 11th, 2010, 12:59 PM   #81
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post

Also, religions other than christianity refer to "God" but do look upon Jesus Christ as a diety. Judaism and Dieism for starters. Just because "God" is mentioned, that does not default to christianity.
Orthodox Judaism DOES NOT look at Christ as a Diety. At all. If they did they wouldn't have nailed him to a cross. <Obie One voice> His is not the Savoir they were looking for </obie one voice>

Not sure on Deism though, Haven't look too much into it.

It doesn't automatically default but, from the writings of many founders, they did believe that God to be the Jeudo-Christian God. It is, however, very clear that they wanted any religion to be able to practice it's ceremonies freely. They also didn't want a Church/state.

I also don't like this line of thinking. Just because it doesn't say the EXACT word it doesn't count? Really? So why are judges allowed to Interpret the law? Obviously, from his line of thinking, there should be no question on interpretation because it's black and white.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2010, 01:01 PM   #82
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,505
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
it's funny that you pick just that one to agree with and throw all the rest out...
funny. . . and I really don't like shellfish so I guess you can add that to the list.
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2010, 01:02 PM   #83
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
Please give me the line of demarcation for rules that can be ingnored from the Old Testament. If I get in a fight and my wife tries to assist me, I'm pretty sure my wife will no longer go to Hell if she kicks my attacker in the balls. Also I understand I can now mix crops in my fields without buring in eternal damnation but what about the other wacky rules of the Old Testament like burning in Hell for beating off?
Here. We. Go.


Rules for Sanctification and Justification to God. Those are the rules that no longer apply.

I'll get into the, Many, Lines that support this. Although, I have before and you didn't except it then. Why would I think you would now. It's not like I'm a Christian Theologian or anything. :shrug:
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2010, 04:02 PM   #84
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Here. We. Go.


Rules for Sanctification and Justification to God. Those are the rules that no longer apply.

I'll get into the, Many, Lines that support this. Although, I have before and you didn't except it then. Why would I think you would now. It's not like I'm a Christian Theologian or anything. :shrug:
I'll also take it a bit further now that I'm home from work.

There are, in simple terms, "God's Laws" and "Mans Laws". The Ten Commandments are God's Laws. The Rest are Mans laws pertaining to God's laws. They were social norms of the time. That's why they also don't follow them as strictly in modern orthodox churches.

When Jesus was asked what the greatest commandments were he said "Love the Lord your God with all your Mind, heart, and Strength. Secondly Love your Neighbor as your self." Jesus Simplified things that way. This does not, however, completely negate some of the meanings behind the laws that were before that nor is this idea new. I know that I would certainly not want to be grabbed (they never said kicked) in the junk by someone's wife; So, therefore, I would not want my wife to do that to another man.

Most (of the OT, Man's Laws), as I've already kind of stated, are laws about how you act to other people. It just got way out of hand and instead of people thinking "How will this effect someone else" they thought "How can I get away with this around the law". The point was lost. It wasn't about the laws but it was about how we related with people.

You also have to take into effect the usefulness of some of the laws about Cleanliness. Leapers were outcasts. This isn't good for the Leaper but good for the Society. Some of the laws are a bit ridiculous but alot of them actually benefited society and in some cases challenged people to have self control.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2010, 04:38 PM   #85
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,758
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
I'll also take it a bit further now that I'm home from work.

There are, in simple terms, "God's Laws" and "Mans Laws". The Ten Commandments are God's Laws. The Rest are Mans laws pertaining to God's laws. They were social norms of the time. That's why they also don't follow them as strictly in modern orthodox churches.

When Jesus was asked what the greatest commandments were he said "Love the Lord your God with all your Mind, heart, and Strength. Secondly Love your Neighbor as your self." Jesus Simplified things that way. This does not, however, completely negate some of the meanings behind the laws that were before that nor is this idea new. I know that I would certainly not want to be grabbed (they never said kicked) in the junk by someone's wife; So, therefore, I would not want my wife to do that to another man.

Most (of the OT, Man's Laws), as I've already kind of stated, are laws about how you act to other people. It just got way out of hand and instead of people thinking "How will this effect someone else" they thought "How can I get away with this around the law". The point was lost. It wasn't about the laws but it was about how we related with people.

You also have to take into effect the usefulness of some of the laws about Cleanliness. Leapers were outcasts. This isn't good for the Leaper but good for the Society. Some of the laws are a bit ridiculous but alot of them actually benefited society and in some cases challenged people to have self control.
The ten commandments doesn't cover teh gay...so according to you, what's the problem?
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2010, 04:41 PM   #86
Nuggets
I fix stuff!
 
Nuggets's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-06
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 13,374
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Orthodox Judaism DOES NOT look at Christ as a Diety. At all. If they did they wouldn't have nailed him to a cross. <Obie One voice> His is not the Savoir they were looking for </obie one voice>

Not sure on Deism though, Haven't look too much into it.

It doesn't automatically default but, from the writings of many founders, they did believe that God to be the Jeudo-Christian God. It is, however, very clear that they wanted any religion to be able to practice it's ceremonies freely. They also didn't want a Church/state.

I also don't like this line of thinking. Just because it doesn't say the EXACT word it doesn't count? Really? So why are judges allowed to Interpret the law? Obviously, from his line of thinking, there should be no question on interpretation because it's black and white.
That was a typo on my part about Judaism observing J.C. as a deity. My bad.
Nuggets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2010, 04:52 PM   #87
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
The ten commandments doesn't cover teh gay...so according to you, what's the problem?
God Saw that Adam needed a suitable helper and provided him with Eve. Not Steve.

Seriously though. If he thought Homosexuality was ok he would have created a Women and Man. Let Adam Choose right? Or would he be Genetically predisposed a certain way? Furthermore, If he was Homosexual then why are we here?

1 Man + 1 Man = No babies; No babies = no off spring.
1 Man + 1 Woman = babies. Babies = Off Spring. Who knows.

God created something beautiful in Sex between a man and a Woman and the idea of Two becoming one. Homosexuality is a Bastardization of that creation. So Is Adultery.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2010, 05:13 PM   #88
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,758
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
God Saw that Adam needed a suitable helper and provided him with Eve. Not Steve.

Seriously though. If he thought Homosexuality was ok he would have created a Women and Man. Let Adam Choose right? Or would he be Genetically predisposed a certain way? Furthermore, If he was Homosexual then why are we here?

1 Man + 1 Man = No babies; No babies = no off spring.
1 Man + 1 Woman = babies. Babies = Off Spring. Who knows.

God created something beautiful in Sex between a man and a Woman and the idea of Two becoming one. Homosexuality is a Bastardization of that creation. So Is Adultery.
So you presume to know how your god thinks and what he "would" have done?

Also, since you know what he/she's thinking, is he against two married people having sex with no intention of procreation? Is he ok with a gay person being gay as long as he never has gay sex?

Last edited by mikesova; November 11th, 2010 at 05:17 PM.
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2010, 05:17 PM   #89
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
So you presume to know how your god thinks and what he "would" have done?
No, I just take from the Text of the book that I believe is his "HOly word". That being that Adam was created and then He said "I must find a suitable helper for Adam". That suitable helper was not a Man. It was a Woman. They then became "One" in the site of God. Not only that but they were still sinless. A man and a Women together is the only biblical Example of a perfect union. Man and Man is not.

As to the other part......

Sex is not strictly for procreation. It's for enjoyment too. The idea of Procreation is from Catholicism, A denomination that I don't agree with alot of things on.

I don't know about the Homosexual thing. Jesus said that if you even think of a women in your mind lustfully you've committed adultery, I would guess that would be the same thing with Homosexuality.

Last edited by L4CX; November 11th, 2010 at 05:21 PM.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2010, 08:44 PM   #90
Nuggets
I fix stuff!
 
Nuggets's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-06
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 13,374
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Why is pud wrestling a burnable offense or is it ok to launch the Hand Shuttle every now and then without God getting bent out of shape about it. That's Old Testament stuff that I don't think is clearly defined since J.C. took over.
Nuggets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2010, 10:03 PM   #91
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
Why is pud wrestling a burnable offense or is it ok to launch the Hand Shuttle every now and then without God getting bent out of shape about it. That's Old Testament stuff that I don't think is clearly defined since J.C. took over.
1 Corinthians 6:12-20

Quote:
12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”[b] 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]

18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

God doesn't get bent out of shape when you beat off or watch mud wrestling. It's just not Beneficial. In fact, it's actually harmful. You're (not you specifically, per say) are training your body to react to your touch and how you think sex should be rather then how your significant other thinks it should be. There are literally Millions of young men who are conditioning their bodies to have horrible sex with a real women. They only know how to have sex with a Virtual one and then blame the real deal for not being like the fake one.

God Doesn't want you to abuse your body sexually. He wants us to enjoy that gift within a Relationship that is based on Commitment and Love.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2010, 06:52 AM   #92
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,078
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
Please give me the line of demarcation for rules that can be ingnored from the Old Testament. If I get in a fight and my wife tries to assist me, I'm pretty sure my wife will no longer go to Hell if she kicks my attacker in the balls. Also I understand I can now mix crops in my fields without buring in eternal damnation but what about the other wacky rules of the Old Testament like burning in Hell for beating off?
Hebrews 8:7-13 talks about doing away with the old covenent.
aber61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 16th, 2010, 08:14 AM   #93
InTeRnEt_RyAn
Senior Member
 
InTeRnEt_RyAn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-20-10
Location: RiChMoNd
Posts: 1,140
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by howell_jeep View Post
Where did our founding fathers put seperation of church and state? Last time I read the Consitution, it wasn't there.



Vote Libertarian.
+1

The constitution merely protects us from the Government, I constantly ask people and most say, "It's what gives the Government power...." Makes me sick. Maybe some of the Ammendments do, but that's another argument.

You have my Vote on anyone who doesn't profess to be affiliated with anyone particular view other than what the constitution was set-up to uphold.
InTeRnEt_RyAn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:06 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Copyright ©2005 - 2012 Cracker Enterprises - Powered by Linux
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=
Page generated in 0.21753 seconds with 36 queries