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Old September 26th, 2006, 10:38 AM   #21
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Thanks, I was just curious. I guess it would make sense that way.
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 11:40 AM   #22
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Back from the dead.

Hopefully you can help Jesus .

I'm trying to find tangential (Not axial or tensile) fatigue and failure specifications for common size DOM TUBE and common PIPE. Any ideas? I've tried GlobalSpec and SAE and haven't found anything.....
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Last edited by Bones; November 2nd, 2006 at 11:48 AM.
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 11:58 AM   #23
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Good luck...

you are really looking for the bending moment, right? or are you looking actually for shear strength?

Its dependant on the size of the tube, the length and location of forces placed, so you don't see it listed. Its not a characteristic of the material itself, but derived from the yield strength, and the section/bending moment of the material itself.


You can try searching at www.engineersedge.com, its asked over there quite a bit.

The 4 link calculator excel sheet also does calculations of link bending moments.
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 12:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
Good luck...

you are really looking for the bending moment, right? or are you looking actually for shear strength?

Its dependant on the size of the tube, the length and location of forces placed, so you don't see it listed. Its not a characteristic of the material itself, but derived from the yield strength, and the section/bending moment of the material itself.


You can try searching at www.engineersedge.com, its asked over there quite a bit.

The 4 link calculator excel sheet also does calculations of link bending moments.
bending monment. I don't care what distances the torques are applied, as long as they rate/compare them all the same. I don't care so much about the actual numerical value the tube will fail, I just want to know what size tube would compare to what size pipe, etc...

I didn't think of looking at the 4 link calculator, and have never been on engineersedge, I'll look into both of those.
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 12:16 PM   #25
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bending monment. I don't care what distances the torques are applied, as long as they rate/compare them all the same. I don't care so much about the actual numerical value the tube will fail, I just want to know what size tube would compare to what size pipe, etc...

I didn't think of looking at the 4 link calculator, and have never been on engineersedge, I'll look into both of those.

For comparative, play with the 4 link. Its good for checking th edifference between say 1.5 x 0.25 and 1.7 x 0.25, for example.

Its amazing the difference you get when you bump up in OD...
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 12:27 PM   #26
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got a link to the four link? Does it compare pipe to tube? Does it use different Modulus values?

That engineering edge website is pretty badass actually...

To simplify.

I have a pipe fixed on one end, and a torque on the other. I want to know how much it deflects. Then, I have a tube, fixed on one end, torque on the other. I want to see how the deflection rates to the pipe, and I want to do this for a whole bunch of different DOM TUBE sizes (ID and wall thickness) and seamed Pipe (OD and schedule) sizes...
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 12:39 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by mschaffer66 View Post
So what you are saying is the right pipe and a cheap harbor freight pipe bender could be a cheap solution for someone that wants to do some tube fenders, bumper, etc... on the cheap?



NAIL ON THE HEAD GOOD JOB THAT IS HOW I BUILT MY CAGE AND I HAVE USED IT

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Old November 2nd, 2006, 01:49 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones View Post
got a link to the four link? Does it compare pipe to tube? Does it use different Modulus values?

That engineering edge website is pretty badass actually...

To simplify.

I have a pipe fixed on one end, and a torque on the other. I want to know how much it deflects. Then, I have a tube, fixed on one end, torque on the other. I want to see how the deflection rates to the pipe, and I want to do this for a whole bunch of different DOM TUBE sizes (ID and wall thickness) and seamed Pipe (OD and schedule) sizes...

Are you looking for plastic or elastic deformation?

By that I mean: Are you looking for how much i flexes, then snaps back when you release the weight? Or are you looking for how much force to permantly (plastic) bend it?
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 02:02 PM   #29
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I don't care about elastic deformation, only plastic
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 02:05 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roll-bar Bob View Post
NAIL ON THE HEAD GOOD JOB THAT IS HOW I BUILT MY CAGE AND I HAVE USED IT
First of all, Great thread!

Second of all, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the impression that a Pipe bender (ie Harbor Freight bender) is a bad Idea for cages and structural jobs.

That bender will reduce the cross section of the material creating a weak point at the bend. shouldn't bends with a non-mandrel bender (the HF one) be gusseted ?
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 02:29 PM   #31
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Any bender stretches/reduces/weakens the metal in a bend.

I'll say this, my first roll in tellico was pretty hard, onto rock, and there's no damage with my roll bar.

In general, I've not seen any instances where people who did a quality job of designing and fabricating their cage using a pipe bender had any issues.

That said, they are limited in what you can do with them(In my experience with the heavy wall tube I use, about 60-70 degrees is max for a bend).

I'm going to buy a real bender when I start my next Jeep build.
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 02:35 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones View Post
I don't care about elastic deformation, only plastic
Yep, just use the 4 link calculator.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...hreadid=204893

Also, this page you can calculate section modulus and moment of inertia:

http://www.engineersedge.com/section...ies_menu.shtml
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 03:00 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawierider View Post
First of all, Great thread!

Second of all, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the impression that a Pipe bender (ie Harbor Freight bender) is a bad Idea for cages and structural jobs.

That bender will reduce the cross section of the material creating a weak point at the bend. shouldn't bends with a non-mandrel bender (the HF one) be gusseted ?


NO MATTER WHERE THE LIMMIT IS THERE IS SOME-JACKASS WHO IS WILLING TO TRY IT HARDER AND FASTER THEN THE LAST GUY IN THE PAST I WAS THAT JACKASS (AKA ROLL-BAR BOB ) MOST OF THE WHEELING TRIPS I TOOK IN 04 AND 05 I ENDED UP ON MY CAGE AT LEAST ONCE A WEEKEND I HAVE BUSTED UP MY CAGE AND PIPE SEVERAL TIMES. BUT NEVER HAD IT FAIL ME !!!!
COULD IT BE STRONGER ? ? ? ? YES
DO I NEED IT STRONGER ? ? ? I DONT KNOW
HAS IT WORKED IN THE PAST ? ? ? YES
WILL I SPEND $1000 TO $1500 ON A BENDER AND $4 TO $6 BUCKS A FOOT ON TUBE ? ? ? I DONT SEE THAT HAPPENING SOON !!!!!
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 03:23 PM   #34
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For me, its more of an issue of the things I want to fab I can't do with a pipe bender. Dune buggy & go-kart frames, and compound bends above 90 degrees, for example.

A pipe bender is nice for making small adjustments in exhuast pipes, btw. Pack the tube(pack it good and tight with a broom handle), and bend away. I use that when you have those 5-20 degree bends you need to just miss something. More than that, I'd weld in a bend.
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 03:24 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roll-bar Bob View Post
NO MATTER WHERE THE LIMMIT IS THERE IS SOME-JACKASS WHO IS WILLING TO TRY IT HARDER AND FASTER THEN THE LAST GUY IN THE PAST I WAS THAT JACKASS (AKA ROLL-BAR BOB ) MOST OF THE WHEELING TRIPS I TOOK IN 04 AND 05 I ENDED UP ON MY CAGE AT LEAST ONCE A WEEKEND I HAVE BUSTED UP MY CAGE AND PIPE SEVERAL TIMES. BUT NEVER HAD IT FAIL ME !!!!
COULD IT BE STRONGER ? ? ? ? YES
DO I NEED IT STRONGER ? ? ? I DONT KNOW
HAS IT WORKED IN THE PAST ? ? ? YES
WILL I SPEND $1000 TO $1500 ON A BENDER AND $4 TO $6 BUCKS A FOOT ON TUBE ? ? ? I DONT SEE THAT HAPPENING SOON !!!!!
Your prices aren't particularly accurate.
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Old December 29th, 2006, 12:56 AM   #36
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Just to let all you cheap bastards (like me) know, I ordered a 12 ton pipe bender from harbor freight for 109.98 shipped. Shipping only cost me $9.99
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Old February 8th, 2007, 12:35 AM   #37
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I ordered the $124.99 one last night and about 13 other things total shipping was $11.99

Now I need to start buying pipe......
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Old March 9th, 2007, 04:36 PM   #38
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Just went to Pontiac Steel today for the first time great prices, far beats any price's I have found downriver or in Detroit. I called like 4 place for A500b sch 40 1 1/4 pipe today most prices were 80-90 dollars for a 21ft stick. Pontiac Steel $37.00 for a 21ft.
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Old March 9th, 2007, 09:24 PM   #39
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I bought my 12 ton bender at harbour freight for $69.00, I have built tube fenders for my jeep project so far, it works great.
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Old March 9th, 2007, 09:37 PM   #40
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Just went to Pontiac Steel today for the first time great prices, far beats any price's I have found downriver or in Detroit. I called like 4 place for A500b sch 40 1 1/4 pipe today most prices were 80-90 dollars for a 21ft stick. Pontiac Steel $37.00 for a 21ft.
Yeah, Pontiac Steel seems to be the best around. They are always good tome, and only 5 minutes from my work.
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