Discuss: Eliminate Teacher's Unions And Tenure - Pay For Performance - Page 2 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 22nd, 2006, 10:38 PM   #21
Skooter_Built
Fuck talk, Duck walk!
 
Skooter_Built's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Whitelake, MI
Posts: 14,596
iTrader: (26)
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Default

i think this would be crap, my sister is a good teacher, last year she worked for a charter school in Ann Arbor, filled with a majority of arabs as students. about 40% of her students didnt care about their schooling. she had to explain to 1 of her classes why it was bad to have sex with their cousins. Hell she had 1 student that was 19, a complete idiot. I dont believe its the teachers fault if the students are given every oppertuinty to learn but choose not too,
__________________
I'm the man in White.

If you want peace, prepare for war!

Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
Skooter_Built is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old August 23rd, 2006, 07:41 AM   #22
RyeBread
Catch the wave
 
RyeBread's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Fenton
Posts: 7,958
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan

And I'll debate whether gym classes keep kids thin or the lack of them makes kids fat. Parents make kids fat (unlimited feeding with junk food, video games, etc...) - a 50 minute gym class 3, 4, or 5 days a week won't do it.
50 minutes of exercise 5 days a week will make a huge difference. however, gym class != "exercise" all too often. I know it's nearly 20 years ago for me, but I still remember the prima donna's/princesses standing around gosspping/giggleing in gym class.

and the fat/lazy kids sitting on the bleachers pretending to be so winded that they needed a break.

again, in today's society you can't hardly fail a kid, and there's a hue and cry about discrimination, as just about 90% (ok, made up stat for argument's sake) qualify as being disabled in some form.

"I have asthma, or ADD, or ADHD, or a "heavy flow"..."
RyeBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2006, 08:36 AM   #23
Just a Spouse
Motrcytman's spouse
 
Just a Spouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Lake View, AL
Posts: 7,176
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Students will learn when they have parents that support learning. Students will exercise, eat right, and do the right things when they have parents that support it. There are exceptions of course, some students don't have the mental capacity, learning disabilities, etc.

Teachers cannot be blamed entirely for students that do not learn. Its more up to the parents to foster and nuture that learning environment. I rasied three children, I've seen it hundreds of times. The students that had parents that cared about education, encouraged reading, homework, quiet place to study,etc. did better in school than the kids who parents didn't. Students with the same teachers. The students whose parents valued education did better then the students whose parents didn't.

Plus, it is good that kids have to experience a few crappy teachers...they have to learn to deal with that adversity, and crappy bosses when they get older. As a parent, you can help them learn to work through it.

The trouble with tenure is that there are some who abuse it. That is true in any organization. In any organization, you have people that abuse the system.
Just a Spouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2006, 12:45 PM   #24
Kawierider
Senior Member
 
Kawierider's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-29-06
Location: Livonia
Posts: 1,533
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cornfed
Salary depends on a few variables: education level, senority, and the district's pay scale. In southeastern MI, many districts have pay scales that max out close to $100k/yr. As a generalization, the teacher would need a master's degree and 10years of experience to max out their earnings. Principals, cirruculum directors, superintendants, and business directors are capable of earning over $100k/yr.... it depends on the district.
I beleive this is the case with the highly paid teachers in my school. masters or better and a LONG time in the district.
Kawierider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2006, 06:03 PM   #25
Buggy_Tim
(513) 891-8372
 
Buggy_Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Sault Sainte Marie
Posts: 11,994
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
I'd love to see a system that continues to reward you for the work you do, and doesn't drive you into administration for advancement.


Won't happen with me. I have NO desire to go there...no matter what the money is. I am a teacher, it is what I do and I feel I do it well. I know that deep down in me, in the core of who I am, I would not do well in the political area of administration. I would be fired in a second.

I am not tenured yet here, so I have to keep my mouth somewhat under control, but I have seen the tenure process save as many good teachers as it has bad teachers. Many good teachers have loud mouths when it comes to other bad teachers, bad admin, bad choices as to how to spend money or other things like that. It would be easy to get rid of those that do not agree politically with the admin if there wasn't some sort of protection involved in the system. I have even seen good teachers get into hot water over petty arguments with the maintenance department...but because the maint manager is good friends with the superintendant the teacher suffers.

Just because you have tenure doesn't always protect you either. I have seen enrollment for certian programs simply dry up...for some strange reason...and then there isn't "enough interest" in the program to keep the teacher...or it forces them to part time and the teacher has no other recourse but to find another job. When that teacher does that, then there is this "magical" re-surgence of interest in the program so another teacher is hired. No one got fired but the end result is the same. Old teacher gone, new on is hired.

Just think of what you would do if they cut your hours at work to say....19 a week. And that puts you under the min to get insurance too so you lose that also. 19 hours a week and no insurance....oh, did I forget to mention that now since you are "part time" your wages are lower because part time employees get 20% lower wages. What would you do? You would find another full time job.

If you don't get what I just said, basicly admin force the advisors to sign the students up for other teachers, or other programs...thus cutting students to a program. No student, no need for the teacher. It happens more than you know. I have seen it happen at least 3 times that I know for sure of since I have been teaching.
Buggy_Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24th, 2006, 01:42 AM   #26
SquirrelWJ
Senior Member
 
SquirrelWJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-13-06
Location: Fenton or Houghton
Posts: 846
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to SquirrelWJ
Default

Actually muddypaws, at the school district that my mother works at, it's become apparent that they're attempting the same thing. One of the principals is basically trying to run certain teachers out of the school system to make way for the younger teachers. They'd be cheaper, but mainly he wants to get rid of the ones he doesn't like.

And get rid of the ones that are more outspoken that would challenge him when it comes to poor policy and bad ideas. This guy's a prick, but the superintendent doesn't have the balls to do anything about it right now. The amount of politics and bullshit that goes on within these school systems is insane. Getting rid of the Union would just make life worse for a lot of teachers that have done nothing bad or wrong... they just caught the wrong side of the wrong person.

'sides... Public schools get all the leftover that private schools don't want. Hate to say it, but you'll see a lot more disabled/handicapped children in a public school than you ever would with a private one. Think charter schools are the same way (not sure though). The idea is that public schools don't get to choose who comes into their system. So to base them off of how well kids do in their classrooms... you're always going to have some that will underperform. This should reflect on the teacher? You can only do so much when the kid, nor the parents, really seems to care.


And unfortunately, more and more nowadays it seems the parents don't care, or have the "My child can do no wrong" mentality that is just as destructive. It isn't always the teacher's fault.
SquirrelWJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24th, 2006, 11:30 PM   #27
sodapop
Support the Sport!
 
sodapop's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-11-05
Location: Harrison Twp, MI
Posts: 2,015
iTrader: (18)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I left a district where the most I could make was about 65K with a masters and 14 years in. Starting pay was about 32, again with a masters. Regular teachers fresh out of school were starting around 28K ad the top they could make was in the 50's. It's gone up slightly since then and by that I mean about 5k but that is a pretty typical teacher wage for the center of the state. In 2005, I was making about 40K and my superviser and also my principal were both making 82K so nowhere what the typical salary is in the northern Detroit area (Warren, Sterling, Utica, Troy, etc.). In those areas, teachers make very good livings. With a masters and with some seniority, they can easily go over 80K.

As far as pay for performance, I don't think it will ever work because I don't htink they will be able to find a fair system of rating teachers. often things are too subjective and then politics can get in the way. The other thing you need to keep in mind is that teachers often don't get to choose what they teach or with what materials they do it and some curriculums out there suck bad. i'm not saying teachers can't make them work but some curriculums are difficult to use and are not successful. i've also seen districts keep curriculums even when they know they are not as successful as others because they are expensive and what they have. Some things to keep in mind.
sodapop is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:55 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.21363 seconds with 41 queries