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Old August 9th, 2006, 09:14 AM   #1
mikesova
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Default "Morality Issues"

Like I've stated before, I view myself as somewhat of a Moderate, I tend to go conservative on most economical issues, but liberal on those issues of morality. I think the war in iraq is stupid, I think our government wastes too much money and I could give a crap if a couple dudes wanna get married. I'm Pro-choice, it's not my body. I was just wondering why a lot of conservatives felt the need to push their morals on other people who don't quite share their views, i.e. gay marriage...Is it really that big a deal to you if a couple guys get married ? How in the hell does it affect you? You don't think it's "right"...ok, whatever, that's your opinion. You like NASCAR...I don't think that's "Right" ,Why not just stop worrying about things that other people do that don't affect you, you know? but ...anyway, just curious about your views on the matter.
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Old August 9th, 2006, 09:24 AM   #2
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Right now, the convervative party is becoming the christian conservative party. That right there answers most of your questions.


No one gets fired up over middle grounder.

We desperately need a viable 3rd party option.
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Old August 9th, 2006, 09:32 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Haggar
Right now, the convervative party is becoming the christian conservative party. That right there answers most of your questions.


No one gets fired up over middle grounder.

We desperately need a viable 3rd party option.
oh I know that Republicans=2/3 Religious Right. Hell even John McCain was bowing to Jerry Falwell by speaking at his university. I mean I'm a "christian", but I don't feel the need to push my views on anyone else. Maybe I haven't reached full christian status until I do, Maybe I have to have 100 conversions under my belt:tonka:
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Old August 9th, 2006, 09:39 AM   #4
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Well, there's a difference between the shepherd and his flock..



In general, church goers are a powerful group. They get pissed about stuff and get out and vote. So catering to them gets you reelected. There are christian universities which crank out future lawmakers like mad which go right into offices in washington as interns.

Thats where the liberal base struggles, inner cities, college students, etc, who vote liberal, they aren't a cohesive group. Oh, they'll get together to protest something, but thats about it.
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Old August 9th, 2006, 09:46 AM   #5
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Doesnt the gay marriage thing have more to do with work related insurance costs and rights of benifits? I could care less if two homos want to get married but could'nt it screw up company's pensions and payroll?
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Old August 9th, 2006, 09:48 AM   #6
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Doesnt the gay marriage thing have more to do with work related insurance costs and rights of benifits? I could care less if two homos want to get married but could'nt it screw up company's pensions and payroll?
expound...
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Old August 9th, 2006, 10:34 AM   #7
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If two guys want to get married then more power to them. I could care less. I have mixed emotions on whether they should be legally treated as a spouse. I feel on one hand that it's no worse than a man/woman relationship. On the other hand some of the stuff I have read has said that even with as high as our divorce rate is in the US, the gay "break up" rate is even higher.
Abortion is another issue for me. I am not a hard core pro lifer like some, but I think using abortion as a form of birth control is immoral. I think that the baby should have some rights too. I do believe that god knows you since the moment that you were conceived and that a life is a miracle. I don't however, push my views onto other people.
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Old August 9th, 2006, 10:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
Right now, the convervative party is becoming the christian conservative party. That right there answers most of your questions.


No one gets fired up over middle grounder.

We desperately need a viable 3rd party option.
I agree with this
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Old August 9th, 2006, 10:41 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by deuce228
I agree with this
That might be bad for your reputation..
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Old August 9th, 2006, 11:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova
Why not just stop worrying about things that other people do that don't affect you, you know?

kind of like making this post?
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Old August 9th, 2006, 11:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
We desperately need a viable 3rd party option.
in the words of kang and kodos on the simpsons halloween episode, "Go ahead, throw your vote away."
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Old August 9th, 2006, 11:27 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by revho
in the words of kang and kodos on the simpsons halloween episode, "Go ahead, throw your vote away."
Which is why I said a VIABLE option.

Todays 3rd party guys aren't going to cut it.
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Old August 9th, 2006, 02:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryann
I think that the baby should have some rights too. I do believe that god knows you since the moment that you were conceived and that a life is a miracle.
I can understand that, but how and who is going to define that?? I can't even imagine how that could be defined. Then you have the situations of the mother's health, and whose life is more important, etc. Yikes!

Right or wrong, I think the laws are setup so that the baby's 'rights' begin when it can survive outside the womb.

I can't even imagine how the rights of the baby and when they come into play could be defined. Medical and religious people have been debating that for years, and none of them can make a final determination. Who should win, religious people or medical people? The majority, is that right either? I don't know.
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Old August 9th, 2006, 05:35 PM   #14
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I'm a conservative.

That being said, it doesn't mean I always vote Republican, although my values intersect with Republicans most often.

That being said, I have some pretty non-typical beliefs:

Have no problems with gays getting married - however if a church/organization doesn't agree with it and chooses not to particpate, that's their choice. So let's have no protests, whining, class action lawsuits, or lawmaking about it.

I'm pro-choice - better aborted than abused.

Would like to see some well-thought-out trade policies that levels the playing field (whatever protectionist nonsense applies to Pontiacs in Japan applies to every Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, and whatever else sold here - regardless where it's made). This doesn't mean preservation of the status quo/protection of the UAW - it means that if I can't play in your market, you can't play in mine.

Utility deregulation (telephone, electric, gas) is a crock - sometimes a monopoly is the answer. Is landline phone service any better or cheaper since AT&T was broken up (not to mention the fact that it's re-assembling)? No - we just have more people in the business.

Wish the religious right didn't have so much sway over the Republican party

I agree with Jesus (:miff:) that we need a viable third party - and maybe a fourth. People want more choice - and we'd have better government with more choice and fewer career politicans (term limits, term limits, and more term limits).
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Old August 9th, 2006, 06:42 PM   #15
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i am not anti gay. I dont care what other people do in their bedroom. I dont think they shoudl be able to get married. Just like single folks get screwed over by the system, gays arent producing the societal benefit of kids, so they should be able to be gay with out stigma, same civil rights as a criple, a black, a blind person etc with all afforded rights to freedom of persecution for their sexual preference. However gays ARE NOT the same as straights and should not be treated 100 % the same in every way. I am 100 % not homophobic just want to make clear i am saying i feel this way for practical implications.

I however would be willing to trade gay marriage for the abolition of affirmitive action. Pro gay marriage types have no ground to stand on when they also support affirmitive action. they want functionally the same thing(all races are equal yetsupport affirmative action) to be treated different. They want functional different sex to be treated the same (womens wages, woman work less overtime, and the fact they have kids makes them a rish to employee should they leave for caring the baby), and they want functionally different non offspring producing couples to be treated the same. GOTTA MAKE UP YOUR MIND! I know the liberal platform is based on having your cake and eating it too, but you gotta pick on idea and stick with it!!!

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Old August 9th, 2006, 11:41 PM   #16
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I consider myself a "middle grounder"

I think the war in Iraq was a bad idea, felt that way from the begining. Not the I thought Sadam was a great guy or anything and do believe the world is better off without him in power anywhere, but if you had asked my when it started what I thought the situation would be 3 years later I would have described pretty much the current situation. suicide bombers, car bombs, fighting between rival factions... I think there were better ways of achieving our goals.

Our government definatly wastes too much of our money.

I don't care what gays do, i just don't see why we should change the thousands of year old definition of "marriage" just to make them feel better about it. I see it as them "wanting to have thier cake and eat it too" They want the benifits of marriage while living an "alternative" lifestyle. They seem to think were "forcing" our morals on them, but i see it as them trying to "force" me to accept thier lifestyle as "normal". Do what you want, but don't try to force the rest of the world to accept it. It affects me because the company I work for and do business with have to pay for many of those benifits. I worry that some companys, faced with the choice of having to support a lifestyle they find immoral or not offering benifits to any spouses may chose the later.

I'm part pro-choice and part pro-life. It's good to give people choices, I just happen to think that abortion is a bad choice most of the time. I don't think it should ever be used as a method of birth control, both for moral reasons and for practical reasons, i.e. costs and risks to the mothers health vs. methods of birth control that would have prevented the pregnancy in the first place. I was in the situation of having to help make that choice 17 years ago and I'm glad with the choice we made (life). But I'm not sure if i would have been happy with the choice then if it had been forced upon us.
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Old August 10th, 2006, 07:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
Which is why I said a VIABLE option.

Todays 3rd party guys aren't going to cut it.
Lieberman is running as an independant... :tonka:
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Old August 10th, 2006, 11:00 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiesann

I however would be willing to trade gay marriage for the abolition of affirmitive action. Pro gay marriage types have no ground to stand on when they also support affirmitive action. they want functionally the same thing(all races are equal yetsupport affirmative action) to be treated different. They want functional different sex to be treated the same (womens wages, woman work less overtime, and the fact they have kids makes them a rish to employee should they leave for caring the baby), and they want functionally different non offspring producing couples to be treated the same. GOTTA MAKE UP YOUR MIND! I know the liberal platform is based on having your cake and eating it too, but you gotta pick on idea and stick with it!!!
wtf are you talking about
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Old August 10th, 2006, 11:03 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiesann
i am not anti gay. I dont care what other people do in their bedroom. I dont think they shoudl be able to get married. Just like single folks get screwed over by the system, gays arent producing the societal benefit of kids, so they should be able to be gay with out stigma, same civil rights as a criple, a black, a blind person etc with all afforded rights to freedom of persecution for their sexual preference. However gays ARE NOT the same as straights and should not be treated 100 % the same in every way. I am 100 % not homophobic just want to make clear i am saying i feel this way for practical implications.
So what about people who choose not to have kids, should they not be allowed to be married, or should special situations be made for gays who decided to adopt? This argument isn't very solid.
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Old August 10th, 2006, 11:19 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn
I consider myself a "middle grounder"

I think the war in Iraq was a bad idea, felt that way from the begining. Not the I thought Sadam was a great guy or anything and do believe the world is better off without him in power anywhere, but if you had asked my when it started what I thought the situation would be 3 years later I would have described pretty much the current situation. suicide bombers, car bombs, fighting between rival factions... I think there were better ways of achieving our goals.

Our government definatly wastes too much of our money.

I don't care what gays do, i just don't see why we should change the thousands of year old definition of "marriage" just to make them feel better about it. I see it as them "wanting to have thier cake and eat it too" They want the benifits of marriage while living an "alternative" lifestyle. They seem to think were "forcing" our morals on them, but i see it as them trying to "force" me to accept thier lifestyle as "normal". Do what you want, but don't try to force the rest of the world to accept it. It affects me because the company I work for and do business with have to pay for many of those benifits. I worry that some companys, faced with the choice of having to support a lifestyle they find immoral or not offering benifits to any spouses may chose the later.

I'm part pro-choice and part pro-life. It's good to give people choices, I just happen to think that abortion is a bad choice most of the time. I don't think it should ever be used as a method of birth control, both for moral reasons and for practical reasons, i.e. costs and risks to the mothers health vs. methods of birth control that would have prevented the pregnancy in the first place. I was in the situation of having to help make that choice 17 years ago and I'm glad with the choice we made (life). But I'm not sure if i would have been happy with the choice then if it had been forced upon us.
i agree with you on all that stuff except the gay marriage part. To me there are two types of marriage, one that is recognized by the church and one that is recognized by the government. The governmental definition they are trying to change is the one that is only a couple hundred years old. Sure if the church doesn't want to do that fine, but what's so terrible about two people who are together getting the economic benefits that any other married couple would get. So in a sense, you wouldn't have to see them as being married in the romantic old church style, just in the crunching numbers, government style.
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