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Old September 19th, 2013, 07:31 AM   #241
mandrews90
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Awesome build... I have a super dumb question but way back when you started this build in one of the pics there is a set of aluminum 5 spoke rims in the pic. I just picked up a tj for my gf and the guy through in 3 of those rims extra. Any chance you still have them and that they are 5 on 4.5???? Sorry to get off topic that's a frickin bad ass cage!!!
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Old September 19th, 2013, 07:33 AM   #242
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I agree with your thoughts. Keep lower link as is and place the steering from the box on top as your nice level shows . This would be both easier and keep it safe for street use. what would be the max angle of the steering at full droop?
Not sure what the max angle would be, but it's nothing extreme. If I go that route I'll probably use a 7/8" heim with misalignment spacer so I can run a 3/4" bolt all the way thru. When I plate the knuckles I'll also add a tab to put the bolt in double sheer for a little extra strength and less likely to wallow out the knuckle hole.
Really the only reason I haven't pulled the trigger on that design is because it has less clearance, but I still think I'll be alright.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 08:44 AM   #243
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Awesome build... I have a super dumb question but way back when you started this build in one of the pics there is a set of aluminum 5 spoke rims in the pic. I just picked up a tj for my gf and the guy through in 3 of those rims extra. Any chance you still have them and that they are 5 on 4.5???? Sorry to get off topic that's a frickin bad ass cage!!!
Thanks! Sorry, I sold off all those wheels a couple years ago. They were 5x5.5 bolt pattern for the 1/2 ton axles I was planning to run.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 08:55 AM   #244
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Cool I just figured out who you are. This is Mike, Shannon's other half... Call me if you want any help and the wives can hang out and drink and we can work on jeep crap...
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Old September 19th, 2013, 09:22 AM   #245
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Haha nice! I tend to work alone but I'm game for some company!
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Old September 19th, 2013, 02:07 PM   #246
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You boys have fun.... I'll be drinking with your wives.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 02:13 PM   #247
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Thanks! Sorry, I sold off all those wheels a couple years ago. They were 5x5.5 bolt pattern for the 1/2 ton axles I was planning to run.
Are those the wheels I ended up with?
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Old September 19th, 2013, 02:58 PM   #248
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Take a look at our build. We have more than a few nights into fitting our front end together. It's a 3-link with track bar. We run 14" coil overs and ride at about 50/50 travel up and down. We cut our frame similar to yours, and we are running a Wagoneer (4-bolt) steering box with a fabricated flat pitman arm.

We have the axle side track bar mount at the same height as the upper link mount. I think we run about 8-9" separation on the axle end between uppers and lowers and just a little less on the frame. We have a ford d60, and we have our tie rod over the knuckle. We stayed away from running a y-link because it made the angle of the track bar and drag link quite steep. We ended up running a high steer on the pass side and run the drag link to that. With the 14" travel, we use all of the travel on a ruff stuff 7/8 x 3/4 rod end. With the up travel we have, the drag link and track bar run maybe 5* down hill.

Frame side track bar mount hangs down from the frame and fits between the housing and tie rod at full lock. Only way to get more up travel for us would be to shorten the frame side track bar mount and make the axle side, but we would either have to live with more angle on the track bar & drag link or risk a higher axle side track bar mount than what we have.

We built at full stuff, and we have many tight spots with 1/2" clearance (including pinion yoke to exhaust on the v8). The track bar & drag link run uphill at full stuff. Track bar just clears our notched frame. As far as performance, I'm very happy with it. It doesn't push off when climbing like a radius arm setup, and feels stable at speed. No bump steer, even in the heavy rough.

front end starts around page 4:
http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthr...t=15929&page=4
3-link calc numbers to show where everything is:
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Old September 19th, 2013, 09:11 PM   #249
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That's the kind of feedback I was looking for!! I'm running 14" coilovers and looks like I'll have about 6" of uptravel. I'm still undecided about the steering setup. The angles don't seem bad at all to me with any of the setups I'm considering. I don't see hi-steer being necessary or worth the packaging headache. I'll look at it some more this weekend and force myself to pull the trigger on something so I can move forward with it.
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Old September 20th, 2013, 05:34 PM   #250
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You boys have fun.... I'll be drinking with your wives.
Good luck, I bet you'll be in the garage with us within 15 minutes

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Are those the wheels I ended up with?
Yeah I think so. What'd you ever do with all those parts?
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Old September 25th, 2013, 01:33 PM   #251
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Well after way too much time staring at it I finally got my steering figured out. I ordered up heims the other day and planned to do full crossover with the tie rod under the knuckles. I did some more playing around, got the steering box where I want it, and got it so the pitman arm will clear the tie rod. I just ordered up some TREs and will be running this style kit: http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/YLINK.html with the tie rod above the knuckle. The TRE at pitman arm will be mounted above the stock TJ pitman, at about the same point it'd be if I ran it underneath a flat pitman arm. I need to double check that the TRE won't hit the drop portion of the pitman arm at full lock and full droop, but if it does I've got a nearly flat arm I can use instead. Now I need to order a TRE reamer.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 01:48 PM   #252
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You may need a longer tube than what's in the pic.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #253
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Can you get full swing on D60 knuckles with a stock TJ pitman arm? I tried that years ago, and it turned like a school bus.

I've had luck with Wagoneer and Astro as they are both longer.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 02:12 PM   #254
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You may need a longer tube than what's in the pic.
I've got plenty

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Can you get full swing on D60 knuckles with a stock TJ pitman arm? I tried that years ago, and it turned like a school bus.

I've had luck with Wagoneer and Astro as they are both longer.
I hadn't heard of that being an issue. I'd say "guess I'll find out" but I know that really means "guess I'll spend countless hours researching it, only to end up spending more money on parts I didn't plan to buy, just in case it turns out to be an issue".
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Old September 25th, 2013, 02:51 PM   #255
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With my lower link location the stock TJ pitman arm swings the knuckles far enough for my tires to rub my lower links at 4psi, and almost hits the grill on the opposite side when crossed up. I couldn't use any more steering even if it was available. Your link locations/tire size/ and packaging constraints will let you know if you need a longer pitman arm or not. A narrower 37" tire would be able to steer further than my 40" ltb's though.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 03:18 PM   #256
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I guess that's one way to do it. I check it with no tires and verify I can get from steering stop to steering stop. When I used the stock TJ pitman arm on the ford d60 knuckles with over the knuckle y-link with the GM TRE's I couldn't touch the stops and the steering sucked. So much so I put a line lock in and did a lot of front digs.

I was looking into what pitman arm to move to, and then instead I moved to full hydro and we made sure it could go stop-to-stop with the 8" ram. When we did the racer setup we used an Astro arm and it's fine, too. Astro arm is a bit longer than TJ, but about 0.5" shorter than Wag and it's dead flat.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 03:25 PM   #257
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I guess that's one way to do it. I check it with no tires and verify I can get from steering stop to steering stop. When I used the stock TJ pitman arm on the ford d60 knuckles with over the knuckle y-link with the GM TRE's I couldn't touch the stops and the steering sucked. So much so I put a line lock in and did a lot of front digs.

I was looking into what pitman arm to move to, and then instead I moved to full hydro and we made sure it could go stop-to-stop with the 8" ram. When we did the racer setup we used an Astro arm and it's fine, too. Astro arm is a bit longer than TJ, but about 0.5" shorter than Wag and it's dead flat.
I was hitting the steering stops on 79 ford knuckles with a stock tj pitman arm
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Old September 25th, 2013, 03:33 PM   #258
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Guess I'll try it like this first and find out. My axle and steering setup is VERY similar to feva's so I may be alright.

Has anybody had strength issues with the Waggy pitman arm? They look pretty weak to me, even compared to the stock TJ arm. Where have you found Astro arms? I did a quick search and everything I saw had a built in TRE, not a hole.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 03:53 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by feva4u View Post
I was hitting the steering stops on 79 ford knuckles with a stock tj pitman arm
Weird. Mine sucked.

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Guess I'll try it like this first and find out. My axle and steering setup is VERY similar to feva's so I may be alright.

Has anybody had strength issues with the Waggy pitman arm? They look pretty weak to me, even compared to the stock TJ arm. Where have you found Astro arms? I did a quick search and everything I saw had a built in TRE, not a hole.
I don't recall which Astro config it was. I walked into the junkyard and got the box and arm for $40. Biggest issue was that I had to knock out the alignment sectors since it was clocked different.



We ran the stock arm on our TREC Wag racer and no issues. Including the grand finale where we went through a bomb crater and broke the ball joints out.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 07:36 PM   #260
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I've done a little messing around since I got home and found a few things:
-My heims arrived and made me very glad I chose to switch to TREs. The 7/8x3/4 heims have decent misalignment with the spacers(26* or so) but the 7/8x7/8(what I planned to use for my draglink) suck for misalignment(18* or so) even with the spacers. No way that would've cut it. I'll still be using them for the track bar, but not steering.
Should I use heims at both ends of the track bar, or throw a poly bushing at the frame end? Seems like either would do the job but I'm open to suggestions.

-The stock pitman arm will SEVERELY limit steering. I measured the distance between the draglink holes at center then measured again at full lock right with the axle maxxed out and it was about 1.25" longer. The stops aren't currently on the knuckles, but approximating where they should be told me all I needed. Time to order a Waggy arm. Glad I found out now in case I need to tweak steering box position at all.
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