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Old September 27th, 2010, 09:13 PM   #1
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Default Where would you put creationism in a science class?

Apparently we needed another evolution debate because it was spewing into another thread, but rather than talking about evolution, let's talk about creationism.

Alright creationists, here's your chance to show me just how you would shoe horn a creationism unit into a high school biology class. How would you introduce the topic? What evidence would you provide for it? Bible? Would you also present evolution, or skip it?
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Old September 27th, 2010, 09:40 PM   #2
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You could start with the age of the earth.
Man coming from apes, then why are there no monkey's/ man around?
There are no transitional life form found in the fossil record. None!

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Old September 27th, 2010, 09:44 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
You could start with the age of the earth.
Man coming from apes, then why are there no monkey's/ man around?
You've never been to Detroit, have you?
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Old September 27th, 2010, 09:47 PM   #4
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You could start with the age of the earth.
Man coming from apes, then why are there no monkey's/ man around?
Ok, what do you figure the age of the earth is and what evidence do you have for it?

man coming from apes? I thought you were going to tell me how creationism would fit into a classroom? Your job is to explain how creationism fits into a biology class, not why you don't buy what you think is evolution.

Here are the State Standards:

K-7 Grade Level Content Expectations

High School Content Expectations (Biology)

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Old September 27th, 2010, 10:17 PM   #5
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I'm to tired to get into this today. Probably tomorrow too .


I wouldn't mind, though, a brief history of Science. That, as My other post in the other thread stated, when does Science become Religion or if it even does? That the Scientists of Ancient times were also the founding fathers of most of the faiths yet we are told Science and Faith cannot Exist together. Is it because of a more "pure" understanding or because of fear of things that are unexplainable?

Not only that but maybe in 2000 more years the idea that "evoutlional Science" will be a cracked out religion were people kill other people to help us evolve into better Species.

BTW, Just got done worshiping via a 'livelink' with 46 other countries. Worshiping the God that Science says can't exist. Or is that Stephen Hawkin....Can't remember. :D Or is Stephen Hawkin Science? I don't know.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 10:22 PM   #6
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L4CX should be the Politics and religion mod.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 10:29 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Ok, what do you figure the age of the earth is and what evidence do you have for it?

man coming from apes? I thought you were going to tell me how creationism would fit into a classroom? Your job is to explain how creationism fits into a biology class, not why you don't buy what you think is evolution.

Here are the State Standards:

K-7 Grade Level Content Expectations

High School Content Expectations (Biology)
According to you man evolved from ape like creatures about 4,000,000 yrs ago, and modern man has been around for 100,000 yrs. With man being around for that amount of time there would be alot of evidence of that in the form of deaths and burials.
Lets say that a generation passed every 25 years and in 100,000 yrs a total of 4,000 generations would happen. And if the number of people did not exceed 1,ooo,ooo at any one time in the past, in 100,000 yrs a total of 4,000,000,000 people would have lived, died and been buried somewhere on earth. Big number right?
With all those people come their stuff, tools, jewerly, clay pots and vessels in their graves.
Based on evolutionary assumptions we should be able to dig straight down almost anywhere on earth and hit at least one grave from a prior generation.
To date they say we have only found about 300 Neanderthal skeletons and they have been found in caves from Spain to Syria to Israel.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 10:31 PM   #8
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L4CX should be the Politics and religion mod.
I second that
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Old September 27th, 2010, 10:35 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
I'm to tired to get into this today. Probably tomorrow too .


I wouldn't mind, though, a brief history of Science. That, as My other post in the other thread stated, when does Science become Religion or if it even does? That the Scientists of Ancient times were also the founding fathers of most of the faiths yet we are told Science and Faith cannot Exist together. Is it because of a more "pure" understanding or because of fear of things that are unexplainable?

Not only that but maybe in 2000 more years the idea that "evoutlional Science" will be a cracked out religion were people kill other people to help us evolve into better Species.

BTW, Just got done worshiping via a 'livelink' with 46 other countries. Worshiping the God that Science says can't exist. Or is that Stephen Hawkin....Can't remember. :D Or is Stephen Hawkin Science? I don't know.
You really need to work on spelling.

So, you're saying that the religion of today is the science of yesterday? Well, look at the Greek mythology(less sensitive material) Sure, people looked around and came up with ideas for why things happened. I.E. Lightening= Zeus throwing thunderbolts. That's only half of the scientific method, though. They made the hypothesis, but had no way to test it. The thing is, does anybody believe that lightening comes from Zeus, anymore? Once we're able to test things, the mystical stuff gets pushed to the wayside for real explanations.

Also, does that mean that the whole idea of Jesus is just a speculation with no real credibility like the Zeus thunderbolt theory and eventually the earth will no longer have Christians, but Evolutionia's? Could be...so I'll just stick with the current explanation then, not the 2000 year old supernatural one.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 10:54 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
According to you man evolved from ape like creatures about 4,000,000 yrs ago, and modern man has been around for 100,000 yrs. With man being around for that amount of time there would be alot of evidence of that in the form of deaths and burials.
Lets say that a generation passed every 25 years and in 100,000 yrs a total of 4,000 generations would happen. And if the number of people did not exceed 1,ooo,ooo at any one time in the past, in 100,000 yrs a total of 4,000,000,000 people would have lived, died and been buried somewhere on earth. Big number right?
With all those people come their stuff, tools, jewerly, clay pots and vessels in their graves.
Based on evolutionary assumptions we should be able to dig straight down almost anywhere on earth and hit at least one grave from a prior generation.
To date they say we have only found about 300 Neanderthal skeletons and they have been found in caves from Spain to Syria to Israel.
First, your assumption that we should be able to dig up the grave of at least one person from every generation is asinine and I doubt it has any scientific basis. Organic materials break down over time. It takes a very special circumstance for things to be preserved. That's why you can't just dig up graves of 100,000 year old people.

Second, do you think by attempting to tear down evolution, it would build up creationism at the same time? It doesn't work that way, buddy. You're treading in logical fallacy terrain. I'm sure you've been there before, it's probably familiar to you.

ahh, here it is: the logical fallacy known as false dichotomy

Quote:
False Dichotomy
Arbitrarily reducing a set of many possibilities to only two. For example, evolution is not possible, therefore we must have been created (assumes these are the only two possibilities). This fallacy can also be used to oversimplify a continuum of variation to two black and white choices. For example, science and pseudoscience are not two discrete entities, but rather the methods and claims of all those who attempt to explain reality fall along a continuum from one extreme to the other.
A scientific theory has to be built on a solid supply of evidence. Disproving a competing theory doesn't lend one iota of credibility to another theory.

So why don't you talk about how you would teach creationism in school, you know, what the thread is about...
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Old September 28th, 2010, 05:01 AM   #11
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Old September 28th, 2010, 07:56 AM   #12
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First, your assumption that we should be able to dig up the grave of at least one person from every generation is asinine and I doubt it has any scientific basis. Organic materials break down over time. It takes a very special circumstance for things to be preserved. That's why you can't just dig up graves of 100,000 year old people.

Second, do you think by attempting to tear down evolution, it would build up creationism at the same time? It doesn't work that way, buddy. You're treading in logical fallacy terrain. I'm sure you've been there before, it's probably familiar to you.

ahh, here it is: the logical fallacy known as false dichotomy



A scientific theory has to be built on a solid supply of evidence. Disproving a competing theory doesn't lend one iota of credibility to another theory.

So why don't you talk about how you would teach creationism in school, you know, what the thread is about...
Not to dig up something from every generation, but from one generation. Why is it that we cannot find anything in the ground before Neandrthals, preserved or fossized? And you are correct that things do break down but there would still be evidence of past generations which we have but not enough if the earth was as old as you claim.
You can't find graves of 100,000 yr old people because they are not there. Just like transistional fossils, there aren't any. And your special circumstances to preserve things is to fossilize and things do not need to be hundreds of thousands of yrs old to be fossils.
Something must be buried rapidly and only water(world wide flood) can bury something quickly with no oxygen present or decay will occur. Do you know that fossized fish have been found with thier gills preserved. A man made hats found completely fossized, a bag of flour, fossized. If it takes according to evolution long periods of time for things to fossilize maybe you can explain to the class how we find man made items completely fossilized.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:11 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
You could start with the age of the earth.
Man coming from apes, then why are there no monkey's/ man around?
There are no transitional life form found in the fossil record. None!
According the the theory of evolution EVERY life form is a "transitional life form". The rate of change may speed up or slow down depending on conditions, but it is always happening.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:24 AM   #14
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According the the theory of evolution EVERY life form is a "transitional life form". The rate of change may speed up or slow down depending on conditions, but it is always happening.
I saw a great quote today that describes Aber perfectly:

Quote:
Religious people who attempt (badly) to apply principles of skepticism to widely accepted scientific theories that are backed by mountains of evidence but who would never even think of applying that same skepticism to the laughable supernatural claims of your own religion: YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.
Also, what I gather from Aber, there must not be any evidence for creationism, because he hasn't said one thing about it. He keeps trotting out tired arguments that only work on the people who don't want to see that evolution is solid theory based on their pre-conceived religous beliefs. Weird.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:31 AM   #15
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I saw a great quote today that describes certain poster quite well:

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Those who can't do, teach.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:39 AM   #16
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I saw a great quote today that describes certain poster quite well:
well said howell
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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:43 AM   #17
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According the the theory of evolution EVERY life form is a "transitional life form". The rate of change may speed up or slow down depending on conditions, but it is always happening.
There are no transitional life forms. A dog is a dog if it has long hair or short hair it is a dog. A bird is a bird, they may differ from one spieces to another but it will always be a bird not a fish bird or something in between. There are no fossils of anything in between transitions. Show us one example.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:45 AM   #18
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I saw a great quote today that describes Aber perfectly:



Also, what I gather from Aber, there must not be any evidence for creationism, because he hasn't said one thing about it. He keeps trotting out tired arguments that only work on the people who don't want to see that evolution is solid theory based on their pre-conceived religous beliefs. Weird.
There are mountains of evidence you only refuse to see it because of the blinders you wear. There are evolution scientists that are now creation scientists because the theory does not add up.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:58 AM   #19
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There are mountains of evidence you only refuse to see it because of the blinders you wear. There are evolution scientists that are now creation scientists because the theory does not add up.
So, why do you keep talking about evolution? The point of this thread is to see how you would want to include creationism into a biology class.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 09:02 AM   #20
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There are no transitional life forms. A dog is a dog if it has long hair or short hair it is a dog. A bird is a bird, they may differ from one spieces to another but it will always be a bird not a fish bird or something in between. There are no fossils of anything in between transitions. Show us one example.
List_of_transitional_fossils List_of_transitional_fossils
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