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Old September 27th, 2010, 09:20 AM   #1
mikesova
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Default Pulpit Freedom Sunday

http://abcnews.go.com/US/definat-pas...ry?id=11726610

Basically, some church leaders want to challenge the IRS by promoting certain candidates, which is not allowed by a non-profit, like a church.

I say, go for it, hopefully the IRS will take away some of their non-profit statuses.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 12:57 PM   #2
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http://abcnews.go.com/US/definat-pas...ry?id=11726610

Basically, some church leaders want to challenge the IRS by promoting certain candidates, which is not allowed by a non-profit, like a church.

I say, go for it, hopefully the IRS will take away some of their non-profit statuses.
I agree with you on this one. They shouldn't be doing this from the Pulpit. Using Religion to sell Politics has lead to some bad stuff in the Past. If you're a Pastor you are there to feed your flock God's word, Not your opinion. I see it far to often though.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 01:06 PM   #3
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I think Obama needs to appoint a Church Czar.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 01:09 PM   #4
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I look at it like our freedom of speach is taken away, the johnson act. People tend to listen to their pastors and what better way to silence people then to threaten the church with tax exemption being removed.
As I heard thousands of pastors across the country did this in a bid to see if the IRS will in fact take some to court and challenge this unconstitutional act.
Pastors tend to inform the people of their church about issues on abortion, homosexuality and how we should spend our time and money and so on, why should it be wrong for a pastor to inform us that as Christians it is wrong to support a party that endorses abortion and encourages gay marriage.
Just my opinion.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 01:21 PM   #5
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I look at it like our freedom of speach is taken away, the johnson act. People tend to listen to their pastors and what better way to silence people then to threaten the church with tax exemption being removed.
As I heard thousands of pastors across the country did this in a bid to see if the IRS will in fact take some to court and challenge this unconstitutional act.
Pastors tend to inform the people of their church about issues on abortion, homosexuality and how we should spend our time and money and so on, why should it be wrong for a pastor to inform us that as Christians it is wrong to support a party that endorses abortion and encourages gay marriage.
Just my opinion.
So, is it ok for me as a teacher to go into the classroom and tell the kids about my politics and how they should think? Didn't think so...

Look, I don't care if a church pastor tells their flock what to think politically, but if they choose to do so, they need to give up their tax exempt status.

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Old September 27th, 2010, 01:26 PM   #6
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So, is it ok for me as a teacher to go into the classroom and tell the kids about my politics and how they should think? Didn't think so...
LOL, I think students HAVE to hear you, whereas people going to church DON'T HAVE to. Try again later...
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Old September 27th, 2010, 01:34 PM   #7
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LOL, I think students HAVE to hear you, whereas people going to church DON'T HAVE to. Try again later...
I'm not saying it's a perfect analogy, but he's saying it's a freedom of speech thing...There are restrictions on freedom of speech in a few different ways, this is one of them.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 02:12 PM   #8
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It isn't an infringement of free speech. They can say whatever they want. They just lose their tax exemption for doing it. Nobody is preventing them from making the comments.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 02:44 PM   #9
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It isn't an infringement of free speech. They can say whatever they want. They just lose their tax exemption for doing it. Nobody is preventing them from making the comments.
Very strange logic, if you take it further, nothing is ever prohibited, since you can do it, but are faced with consequences.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 04:15 PM   #10
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I'm not saying it's a perfect analogy, but he's saying it's a freedom of speech thing...There are restrictions on freedom of speech in a few different ways, this is one of them.
So if you did spew your opinions out in front of the Kiddies at school would you expect the Government to fund the school district less then? Because I know I was faced with political and Religious Garbage from my High school teachers on a Regular Basis.

How bout College Professors that openly discriminate against people who think differently then "the norm". IE, what the professor thinks? Should I write a letter to the Government to start cutting spending at MSU for what they did to my wife and Many of my Friends?



By what you've been putting, Your answer should be yes. They brake the rules they loose thier government funding. Pastors brake the rules they loose thier tax exempt status. One in the same.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 05:08 PM   #11
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So if you did spew your opinions out in front of the Kiddies at school would you expect the Government to fund the school district less then? Because I know I was faced with political and Religious Garbage from my High school teachers on a Regular Basis.


How bout College Professors that openly discriminate against people who think differently then "the norm". IE, what the professor thinks? Should I write a letter to the Government to start cutting spending at MSU for what they did to my wife and Many of my Friends?



By what you've been putting, Your answer should be yes. They brake the rules they loose thier government funding. Pastors brake the rules they loose thier tax exempt status. One in the same.
Teachers shouldn't teach students what to think, they should teach them how to think. If a teacher is trying to inject their class with their own political bias, the administration should be having a talk with the teacher. I don't think that the school needs to lose funding, but there should be some consequences or steps taken to resolve the situation.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 05:16 PM   #12
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Teachers shouldn't teach students what to think, they should teach them how to think. If a teacher is trying to inject their class with their own political bias, the administration should be having a talk with the teacher. I don't think that the school needs to lose funding, but there should be some consequences or steps taken to resolve the situation.
Pastors shouldn't teach parishioner what to think, they should teach them how to think. If a Pastor is trying to inject their Congregation with their own Political bias, the Deacons or elders should be having a talk with the Pastor. I don' t think the Church needs to lose Tax exempt status, but there should be some consequences or steps taken to resolve the situation.



But I guess it's different because ones connected with a Faith right?

edit: BTW, If I even tried to talk to someone at MSU about bias-ness in thier classes I would be asked to leave and probably laughed out the door. I'm glad you think this is how it DOES work. This is Only how it SHOULD work. It does not work this way.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 05:18 PM   #13
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Pastors shouldn't teach parishioner what to think, they should teach them how to think. If a Pastor is trying to inject their Congregation with their own Political bias, the Deacons or elders should be having a talk with the Pastor. I don' t think the Church needs to lose Tax exempt status, but there should be some consequences or steps taken to resolve the situation.



But I guess it's different because ones connected with a Faith right?
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Old September 27th, 2010, 05:40 PM   #14
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Teachers shouldn't teach students what to think, they should teach them how to think. If a teacher is trying to inject their class with their own political bias, the administration should be having a talk with the teacher. I don't think that the school needs to lose funding, but there should be some consequences or steps taken to resolve the situation.
Can a Pastor have a political view at all then...........What if the pastor gets together with some of the congregation at a breakfast in a Restaurant and talks about politics. Can he do that? He's still under contract as a pastor.
How about you as a teacher, you are a teacher whether you are in a classroom or not. You are held to that standard because it is your job. So anything you say to anybody could be thought of as teaching. Can you then have a political conversation with someone who is a student, but not during school hours?


Pretty grey area here. Not sure what my opinion is.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 05:56 PM   #15
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So, is it ok for me as a teacher to go into the classroom and tell the kids about my politics and how they should think? Didn't think so...

Look, I don't care if a church pastor tells their flock what to think politically, but if they choose to do so, they need to give up their tax exempt status.

The kids don't have a choice who thier teacher is, people have a choice on what church they go to.
Teachers fill kids heads with all sorts of the teachers opinions.
The Theory Evolution is one that comes to my mind. Kids are taught only one side, they are not offered creation and evolution.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 06:01 PM   #16
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Can a Pastor have a political view at all then...........What if the pastor gets together with some of the congregation at a breakfast in a Restaurant and talks about politics. Can he do that? He's still under contract as a pastor.
How about you as a teacher, you are a teacher whether you are in a classroom or not. You are held to that standard because it is your job. So anything you say to anybody could be thought of as teaching. Can you then have a political conversation with someone who is a student, but not during school hours?


Pretty grey area here. Not sure what my opinion is.
I'm not positive on the exact details, but basically a church head can't endorse specific political candidates. They can talk about different policies, just can't endorse candidates or else risk losing tax exempt status.

I've actually never seen a rule that says I can't give my political opinions in a classroom, I just see it as being in poor taste.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 06:04 PM   #17
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I'm not positive on the exact details, but basically a church head can't endorse specific political candidates. They can talk about different policies, just can't endorse candidates or else risk losing tax exempt status.

I've actually never seen a rule that says I can't give my political opinions in a classroom, I just see it as being in poor taste.

Well,........at least you have that.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 06:05 PM   #18
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The kids don't have a choice who thier teacher is, people have a choice on what church they go to.
Teachers fill kids heads with all sorts of the teachers opinions.
The Theory Evolution is one that comes to my mind. Kids are taught only one side, they are not offered creation and evolution.
If you're talking about a science class, for the millionth time, evolution is a scientific theory that is supported by scientific evidence. Creationism is a religious story supported by religious texts, with no actual evidence to support it. Why would you teach religious mythology in a science classroom? I don't mean to offend you by calling it mythology, but that's what it is. If you looked at the ancient greeks creation stories, you'd call it mythology, so the same goes for the judeo-christian creation stories or any other stories with no evidence to support them.

That's all I'm going to say, because I've said this all before and this is not the topic at hand.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 06:06 PM   #19
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Well,........at least you have that.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 06:07 PM   #20
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If you're talking about a science class, for the millionth time, evolution is a scientific theory that is supported by scientific evidence. Creationism is a religious story supported by religious texts, with no actual evidence to support it. Why would you teach religious mythology in a science classroom? I don't mean to offend you by calling it mythology, but that's what it is. If you looked at the ancient greeks creation stories, you'd call it mythology, so the same goes for the judeo-christian creation stories or any other stories with no evidence to support them.

That's all I'm going to say, because I've said this all before and this is not the topic at hand.
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