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Old September 5th, 2010, 05:36 PM   #1
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Default Michigan: Right to work vs Unions

Discuss:
The differences in doing business as a union shop or an open shop

Michigan 10.0 study: Right-to-work tradeoff is more jobs for lower pay
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Old September 5th, 2010, 06:17 PM   #2
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If unions are so convinced that their members would choose to continue their membership, what are they afraid of? Let the workers choose.

Bottom line is that unions don't want to give their members a choice because it would alter the balance of power. Union officials would have to become much more responsive to their membership, and I suspect that their salaries, staffs, expenses accounts, etc... would be cut as would all of the dabbling in politics - activities that do not directly benefit the membership.

For Michigan to progress, the grip that unions have on the state has to be broken. Who in their right mind would locate a factory in MI when you can get an equally skilled workforce in SC for about the same price without the threat of a anticompetitive union and an activist workforce filled with feelings of entitlement.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 06:20 PM   #3
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I am not really sure what "Right to work" entails. anybody care to explain. Just going off what it sounds like, it makes it harder for employers to fire you, but that doesn't seem right. A little help here?
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Old September 5th, 2010, 06:41 PM   #4
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I am not really sure what "Right to work" entails. anybody care to explain. Just going off what it sounds like, it makes it harder for employers to fire you, but that doesn't seem right. A little help here?
Means no "closed shop" employers, where you have to belong to union to work.

Union membership is a choice.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 06:47 PM   #5
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Thats what all this fuss is about... whether or not your are forced to join a union or not?? Holy shit.. in that case the whole USA should be right to work... I thought freedom of choice was a constitutionally protected thing.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 06:53 PM   #6
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From what I understand, "Right to work" is when someone who's hired into a company is given the CHOICE to join, or not to join the union that might represent people who work for that company. (Not sure if there is more to it than that.)

Edit: Duffman beat me to it.

While I understand the point behind unions, it pisses me off that they protect horrible employee's from losing their job and still force the company to pay them the same as anyone else. Not to mention there are certain jobs people shouldn't be making $20 an hour doing.

Another thing I cant stand about unions is you might run into power hungry representatives that will do what they can do destroy business or people that refuse to work for them. I know a few people who were subject to that kind of treatment, and it pisses me off that groups will intentionally try to harm the reputation of other businesses or people just to push their own agenda.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:07 PM   #7
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Thats what all this fuss is about... whether or not your are forced to join a union or not?? Holy shit.. in that case the whole USA should be right to work... I thought freedom of choice was a constitutionally protected thing.
Its a little like wanting to join a country club, but not wanting to pay the membership dues.

Not the best analogy but true none the less.


Not saying that I favor or oppose the issue. Just Sayin'
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:18 PM   #8
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I think when the unions were first started, they were good. But now, they just seem to protect the slackers and force companies to overpay for unskilled workers.

The big three get around the union issue by shipping work out of the state or country, so where does he union help the American worker there?


If I read it correctly, Right to work also means that companies can get rid of the slackers and non-productive workers without having to go thru all the union crap to do so.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:26 PM   #9
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My theory is that the result of "right to work" in a heavily union area like MI would result in segregated labor forces. Skilled, ambitious workers inclined to do a good job will leave the union to gain access to "pay for performance" pay plans and advancement. The less skilled and less motivated workers will cling to the union for that protection of the lowest common denominator that unions provide.

As for the "membership benefits without dues" idea, that falls down when comparing represented and non-represented workforces in the same company today.

It's like a local workplace where union members voted to drastically reduce 401k matching contributions in exchange for lower health insurance co-pays (by $5-10 per visit). Typical example of short-term, non-strategic union thinking.

btw, no hate for unions here - my Dad was a union officer for years and I used to be a Teamster myself... I can just be objective.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:43 PM   #10
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Its a little like wanting to join a country club, but not wanting to pay the membership dues.

Not the best analogy but true none the less.


Not saying that I favor or oppose the issue. Just Sayin'

Just to fix your analogy, It would be like going to play golf and in the union world you have to pay for the membership to be allowed to play. and right to work you would be able to just play with out joining "the club"
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:50 PM   #11
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"right to work" is not good for this state or the workers of this state..
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Old September 6th, 2010, 11:39 AM   #12
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"right to work" is not good for this state or the workers of this state..
It may not be good for some workers that are still working, but if it helps bring more jobs back to the state it would be good for people looking for work. I think it also helps businesses run more efficiently which is good for everyone in the long run.
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Old September 6th, 2010, 11:43 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by itselliott View Post
Its a little like wanting to join a country club, but not wanting to pay the membership dues.

Not the best analogy but true none the less.


Not saying that I favor or oppose the issue. Just Sayin'
No, it's like changing the golf course rules from being a country club where you have to be a member to play to being a public golf course where anyone can play.
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Old September 6th, 2010, 11:50 AM   #14
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No, it's like changing the golf course rules from being a country club where you have to be a member to play to being a public golf course where anyone can play.
Excellent analogy.
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Old September 6th, 2010, 11:57 AM   #15
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unions protect the lazy folks.
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Old September 6th, 2010, 12:03 PM   #16
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Thats what all this fuss is about... whether or not your are forced to join a union or not?? Holy shit.. in that case the whole USA should be right to work... I thought freedom of choice was a constitutionally protected thing.
Not only that, in yet more pandering to unions, the Obie administration is promoting passage of the ironically-named "Employee Free Choice Act", which would change the way union certification votes (i.e. voting on whether to have or keep a union) are conducted. The secret ballot would be eliminated, and instead elections would be conducted via signing your name to a card - in public. So, to help unions defend their reduced membership (currently at only 7.5% of the private sector workforce), workers choosing to vote against a union would have to do so in public and be subject to intimidation and coercion (not to say THAT'S ever happened in union organizing)...

As a former GM Component group salaried employee and GM non-subordinated bond holder (i.e. holder of GM bonds that were contracturally guaranteed to have first dibs on assets in the event of bankruptcy until an Obama executive order made to hand the bondholder's $ over to the UAW) I can't quietly watch Obie's blind subservience to union continue...
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Old September 6th, 2010, 12:12 PM   #17
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No, it's like changing the golf course rules from being a country club where you have to be a member to play to being a public golf course where anyone can play.
But still haveing the benifits of the country club if your not a member.
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Old September 6th, 2010, 01:41 PM   #18
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But still haveing the benifits of the country club if your not a member.
No. You're missing the point. There is no more country club. Theres just a golf course that anyone can play at without joining anything. Yes, group of golfers could still band together and demand improvements to the facilities, but what they couldn't do is demand that money from every golfer just because they got course management to make improvements.
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Old September 6th, 2010, 02:50 PM   #19
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Right to Work SIMPLY means, if you are hired into a place that has connections with a union, you can choose whether or not you want to be a member of the union and pay the union dues.

Thats it. I don't see how anyone would need an analogy to understand that.
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Old September 6th, 2010, 08:20 PM   #20
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The problem comes is the union is still required to represent non dues paying members of the work force. So the lazy asses that everyone always bitches about in a union shop will still be lazy asses just free loading lazy asses.
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