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Old August 17th, 2010, 04:59 PM   #1
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Default Arts, Beats & Eats w/ Guns

Discuss.

My thoughts and feelings on this should be a no brainer to most of you.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 05:11 PM   #2
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I agree with it being allowed, that article pissed me off, with the misinformation about where you can open carry, they said the rules where the same as concealed carry rules, and they even had those wrong.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 06:44 PM   #3
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I've said it before. I don't intend to open carry but I consider it a right. My fear on this is that the open carriers are going to use this to make a political statement and something stupid will happen. IE: ponderosa
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Old August 18th, 2010, 10:45 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
I've said it before. I don't intend to open carry but I consider it a right. My fear on this is that the open carriers are going to use this to make a political statement and something stupid will happen. IE: ponderosa

Going to use it as a political statement? I think they already did.

It may just back fire on them in the court of public opinion.

My only response to this is: WHY?

p.s. I also support the right to bear arms, openly and, with the proper authorization, concealed. But let common sense prevail.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 11:00 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
Going to use it as a political statement? I think they already did.

It may just back fire on them in the court of public opinion.

My only response to this is: WHY?

p.s. I also support the right to bear arms, openly and, with the proper authorization, concealed. But let common sense prevail.
This while issue started out as an issue with an all out "firearms ban" not specific to OC. The effort to get RO in line with state law was spearheaded by a few OC'ers from MIOC.

After the RO city commission tried to make the entire place a "bar" and try to go the PFZ route, they effectively mandated that you OC and took away CC if you wanted to carry for personal protection.

What people are missing in this issue the most is that this is about firearm rights, not specifically the right to OC but the right to carry period!

There is a HUGE tread over at MGO on this and I'll try to link it but I don't think it will work unless you are a forum member. But in summary, After a ton of resistance from one commissioner (Drinkwine) and even a small hissy fit a few weeks ago by the same member. RO has amended the contract, but now has proposed a resolution to BAN ALL CARRY FROM PUBLIC BUILDINGS. I have been following this from the beginning, as all of the RO meetings are taped and posted on the internet for all to see.

MGO Thread Link (please let me know if you cannot read it)
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=95954


Drinkwine "Rant Video" See about 19 minutes into the first video. Drinkwine looses it at 48:40 in the last video. Apparently he thinks mere citizens have no rights, and the he owns the council building.

http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/portal...ission-meeting

All of these people saying that "AB&E is a family event and guns don't mix" Do they not realize that 1 in 46 people in MI are CPL carriers and that every time you go to Meijer, D&W or any other grocery store you are in the presence of a CPL carrier who is concealing a gun?? The number of "head in the sand", "Ignorance is bliss", and "I'm going to comment on something I have NO KNOWLEDGE OF" people out there is mind boggling.

Last edited by jeepinRRT; August 18th, 2010 at 11:42 PM.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 09:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinRRT View Post
This while issue started out as an issue with an all out "firearms ban" not specific to OC. The effort to get RO in line with state law was spearheaded by a few OC'ers from MIOC.

After the RO city commission tried to make the entire place a "bar" and try to go the PFZ route, they effectively mandated that you OC and took away CC if you wanted to carry for personal protection.

What people are missing in this issue the most is that this is about firearm rights, not specifically the right to OC but the right to carry period!

There is a HUGE tread over at MGO on this and I'll try to link it but I don't think it will work unless you are a forum member. But in summary, After a ton of resistance from one commissioner (Drinkwine) and even a small hissy fit a few weeks ago by the same member. RO has amended the contract, but now has proposed a resolution to BAN ALL CARRY FROM PUBLIC BUILDINGS. I have been following this from the beginning, as all of the RO meetings are taped and posted on the internet for all to see.

MGO Thread Link (please let me know if you cannot read it)
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=95954


Drinkwine "Rant Video" See about 19 minutes into the first video. Drinkwine looses it at 48:40 in the last video. Apparently he thinks mere citizens have no rights, and the he owns the council building.

http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/portal...ission-meeting

All of these people saying that "AB&E is a family event and guns don't mix" Do they not realize that 1 in 46 people in MI are CPL carriers and that every time you go to Meijer, D&W or any other grocery store you are in the presence of a CPL carrier who is concealing a gun?? The number of "head in the sand", "Ignorance is bliss", and "I'm going to comment on something I have NO KNOWLEDGE OF" people out there is mind boggling.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 09:51 AM   #7
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NO OPEN CARRY!!! VOTE IT DOWN...HELL JUST TAKE IT OUT, it's not like it was voted on in the first place
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Old August 19th, 2010, 10:13 AM   #8
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Going to use it as a political statement? I think they already did.
Not by their choice though. There are a lot of people who conceal carry (CC) on a daily basis and a few who open carry (OC). The ruling that came down for AB&E was that "NO" guns would be allowed anywhere at the event. So, as soon as there was resistance, it became a political statement. So, to your question, it wasn't the gun advocates who started the issue.

If the city had left it alone, there would have been a very few who would have OC'd. Now, I'm guessing there will be a lot more there. I've read this on a couple of the gun sites where people have said "I was going to CC but now I'll OC".

I'm also concerned that there will be people who will attempt to antagonize someone who is OC'ing. Hopefully, they will take the high road and let the antagonizer look like the idiot.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 10:20 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Not by their choice though. There are a lot of people who conceal carry (CC) on a daily basis and a few who open carry (OC). The ruling that came down for AB&E was that "NO" guns would be allowed anywhere at the event. So, as soon as there was resistance, it became a political statement. So, to your question, it wasn't the gun advocates who started the issue.

If the city had left it alone, there would have been a very few who would have OC'd. Now, I'm guessing there will be a lot more there. I've read this on a couple of the gun sites where people have said "I was going to CC but now I'll OC".

I'm also concerned that there will be people who will attempt to antagonize someone who is OC'ing. Hopefully, they will take the high road and let the antagonizer look like the idiot.

Exactly! Apparently the AB&E president knew about the illegal clause a year ago, and chose to do nothing about it. The RO city council has put this off and has known about it for SEVERAL months. All they had to do was do about 30 seconds of research and amend the contract accordingly. But THEY chose to drag it out and make it a bigger issue than it should have been. As you said, several people would have CC'ed and no one would have been the wiser (Like when AB&E was in Pontiac).

After all of this press, I hope that both sides conduct themselves civilly at the event. For the record I am more worried about the opposing side than fellow firearm carriers, doing something stupid.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 10:24 AM   #10
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Bands, beers, broads, and guns?

I'm in.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 10:57 AM   #11
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Bands, beers, broads, and guns?

I'm in.
Just because a person attends the event doesn't mean they will drink. I never have a drink when I am carrying.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 11:33 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Not by their choice though. There are a lot of people who conceal carry (CC) on a daily basis and a few who open carry (OC). The ruling that came down for AB&E was that "NO" guns would be allowed anywhere at the event. So, as soon as there was resistance, it became a political statement. So, to your question, it wasn't the gun advocates who started the issue.

If the city had left it alone, there would have been a very few who would have OC'd. Now, I'm guessing there will be a lot more there. I've read this on a couple of the gun sites where people have said "I was going to CC but now I'll OC".

I'm also concerned that there will be people who will attempt to antagonize someone who is OC'ing. Hopefully, they will take the high road and let the antagonizer look like the idiot.
I was not aware of the rest of the story. Thanks Jim.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 05:46 PM   #13
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Just because a person attends the event doesn't mean they will drink. I never have a drink when I am carrying.
You are not the only one, I can't tell you how much $$ my CPL has saved in beer and wine I otherwise would have gotten.

For the record.... State law prohibits alcohol consumption while carrying.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 07:15 PM   #14
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I'm going to open carry a fifth of jack.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 03:42 PM   #15
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AB&E might not even get they're alcohol permit from what ive heard.

The founder of AB&E is also out of his mind,you should see the videos of him rambling about threatening gun owners and then rambling again when the FBI told him to stop

check out his ramblings



http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ogId=530541376

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ogId=470165383


real good discussion about it on www.opencarry.org

www.miopencarry.org has a good one too(plus im a forum moderator there)

And for the record,MOC has no intentions of staging an event at AB&E,everything was started merely because of an illegal clause in a contract.

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Old August 31st, 2010, 10:16 PM   #16
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That dude is all sorts of unstable. I can see him causing a confrontation and getting what he wants. A gun owner to retaliate, I just hope its someone who uses pepper spray or a tazer because its not a gun and its OK in his book.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 10:44 PM   #17
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AB&E might not even get they're alcohol permit from what ive heard.

The founder of AB&E is also out of his mind,you should see the videos of him rambling about threatening gun owners and then rambling again when the FBI told him to stop

check out his ramblings

YouTube- Arts Beats and Eats Labor Day Festival

YouTube- Spies, FBI & NRA Just Destroyed America

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ogId=530541376

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ogId=470165383

YouTube- Interesting Visit From the FBI Today

real good discussion about it on www.opencarry.org

www.miopencarry.org has a good one too(plus im a forum moderator there)

And for the record,MOC has no intentions of staging an event at AB&E,everything was started merely because of an illegal clause in a contract.

Pretty sure this guy is not the founder of AB&E, He is not the one I have seen at the city council meetings. Better be careful to stay on the correct path here, don't stoop to their level, you are better than that.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 12:10 AM   #18
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Im going by what i am told,i was told this was the man,and he speaks as if he is somebody running AB&E,he also is the one heading up the AB&E facebook page.

I certainly hope that nothing happens because of him,that would be horrible(his threats and advocacy of violance is why the FBI got hold of him)

Tommorow(erm...today,its after midnight right?) they get the word on they're liqour license.

The problem lies in that they are trying to get all of AB&E the alcohol permit,rather than have a beer tent,whereas they are also allowing minors to attend,which violates state law as minors under 17(i think its 17 @ least) cannot enter places with such a license.

That would also make it illegal to conceal a firearm,requiring open carry.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 09:56 AM   #19
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I've never open carried, but AB&E might be the first place I start.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 10:16 AM   #20
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The problem lies in that they are trying to get all of AB&E the alcohol permit,rather than have a beer tent,whereas they are also allowing minors to attend,which violates state law as minors under 17(i think its 17 @ least) cannot enter places with such a license.

That would also make it illegal to conceal a firearm,requiring open carry.
Why would a different kind of license make it illegal to conceal a firearm?
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