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Old August 16th, 2010, 11:29 AM   #1
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Default Socialists in Congress

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=191609

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=191605

Any liberals want to explain this one for me?
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Old August 16th, 2010, 11:42 AM   #2
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Is the fact that socialists exist in our political system, news to you? What needs to be explained? There is an imaginary scale of political ideologies. Different people have differing political ideologies. Extreme liberalism is found on the far left, extreme conservatism is on the far right. A democratic socialist is found on the left side of the scale. I would say that Bernie Sanders is probably the most well known Democratic Socialist in the U.S. Here is an article from 2006 that might help you understand some of the views of a DS :

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...110401124.html
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Old August 16th, 2010, 12:00 PM   #3
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Is the fact that socialists exist in our political system, news to you? What needs to be explained? There is an imaginary scale of political ideologies. Different people have differing political ideologies. Extreme liberalism is found on the far left, extreme conservatism is on the far right. A democratic socialist is found on the left side of the scale. I would say that Bernie Sanders is probably the most well known Democratic Socialist in the U.S. Here is an article from 2006 that might help you understand some of the views of a DS :

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...110401124.html
That's no shock to me.

What I need an explanation on is how people are so fucking dumb as to vote these types of people in to represent them.
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Old August 16th, 2010, 01:18 PM   #4
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We have one as President.
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Old August 16th, 2010, 03:59 PM   #5
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That's no shock to me.

What I need an explanation on is how people are so fucking dumb as to vote these types of people in to represent them.
Let me say this again, Different people have differing political ideologies.
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Old August 16th, 2010, 04:15 PM   #6
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Let me say this again, Different people have differing political ideologies.
Let me say this again...explain to me how people can honestly think that's the way to go.

I just don't understand how people that have such a radically different view of the way of life from what our constitution permits can hold political office. I know it's their freedom to think that way, but I just don't understand it.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 05:01 PM   #7
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Let me say this again...explain to me how people can honestly think that's the way to go.

I just don't understand how people that have such a radically different view of the way of life from what our constitution permits can hold political office. I know it's their freedom to think that way, but I just don't understand it.
If you don't believe in the constitution then why care if you use it as tp?
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Old August 17th, 2010, 08:05 PM   #8
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Let me say this again...explain to me how people can honestly think that's the way to go.

I just don't understand how people that have such a radically different view of the way of life from what our constitution permits can hold political office. I know it's their freedom to think that way, but I just don't understand it.
What view of a way of life does our constitution permit? The United States has a mixed economy with some elements of capitalism and socialism. It has been this way for a long time. I'm pretty sure it's not unconstitutional to be a democratic socialist. Feel free to prove me wrong.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 08:38 AM   #9
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I'm not saying they can't have that view, and I'm not saying it's unconstitutional.

A lot of things in life I can see very different points of view, even different from mine. All out socialism I just can't understand why anyone would want this. I'm asking for help from someone to explain why people would feel this way. That's all.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 08:48 AM   #10
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I just don't understand how people that have such a radically different view of the way of life from what our constitution permits can hold political office.
I still don't understand what you're saying here.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 08:53 AM   #11
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I'm not saying they can't have that view, and I'm not saying it's unconstitutional.

A lot of things in life I can see very different points of view, even different from mine. All out socialism I just can't understand why anyone would want this. I'm asking for help from someone to explain why people would feel this way. That's all.



That is why political discussions turn into arguments. It's seemingly impossible to see eye to eye with someone who believes something that just doesn't and CAN'T make sense. And that goes for BOTH sides.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 08:55 AM   #12
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I still don't understand what you're saying here.
Socialism just doesn't quite jive with our amendments, especially the first two. My point there is, how can you serve a country, somehow believe in the constitution, yet have views that completely go against that.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 09:00 AM   #13
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Socialism just doesn't quite jive with our amendments, especially the first two. My point there is, how can you serve a country, somehow believe in the constitution, yet have views that completely go against that.
Here are some examples of socialism taking place right now in the United States, please explain how they are going against the constitution.

Public Transportation
U.S. Postal Service
Fire Departments
Public Schools
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Old August 18th, 2010, 09:26 AM   #14
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Socialism just doesn't quite jive with our amendments, especially the first two. My point there is, how can you serve a country, somehow believe in the constitution, yet have views that completely go against that.
Do you even know what socialism is? Nothing in Socialist theory goes against the first 2 amendments. If you had said amendments 9 and 10 maybe I would partially agree.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 11:21 AM   #15
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Here are some examples of socialism taking place right now in the United States, please explain how they are going against the constitution.

Public Transportation
U.S. Postal Service
Fire Departments
Public Schools
I don't see Socialism as being anti-constitutional in general. it is Anti-liberty and by all accounts morally corrupt and unjust but not necessarily unconstitional, but since you asked for an argument here's one.....


Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Argument: Seizing my effects (money) without probable cause to pay for public school & public transportation when I don't use them is a violation of my rights.


Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation

Argument: taking my private property (money) to pay for public school & public transportation (public use) without just compensation is a violation of my rights.

Article XIV

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Argument:

Taking my money to pay for public school & public transportation when I don't use them is depriving me of my property without due process of law.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 12:32 PM   #16
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I don't see Socialism as being anti-constitutional in general. it is Anti-liberty and by all accounts morally corrupt and unjust but not necessarily unconstitional, but since you asked for an argument here's one.....


Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Argument: Seizing my effects (money) without probable cause to pay for public school & public transportation when I don't use them is a violation of my rights.


Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation

Argument: taking my private property (money) to pay for public school & public transportation (public use) without just compensation is a violation of my rights.

Article XIV

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Argument:

Taking my money to pay for public school & public transportation when I don't use them is depriving me of my property without due process of law.
Article 1, Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 01:08 PM   #17
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Do you even know what socialism is? Nothing in Socialist theory goes against the first 2 amendments. If you had said amendments 9 and 10 maybe I would partially agree.
Guess I don't. Most leaders I learned through history that were Socialists did not allow freedom of speech, assembly, and the right to bear arms.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 01:37 PM   #18
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Guess I don't. Most leaders I learned through history that were Socialists did not allow freedom of speech, assembly, and the right to bear arms.
see, that's not socialism, that's more authoritarianism. It's not fair to lump those things in with socialism. You have to understand though, that no government or leader is likely to be one thing. It's a combination of things, like our mixed economy.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 03:23 PM   #19
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see, that's not socialism, that's more authoritarianism. It's not fair to lump those things in with socialism. You have to understand though, that no government or leader is likely to be one thing. It's a combination of things, like our mixed economy.
And if I might add, if he hasn't noticed, one of the biggest proponents of taking away our constitutional rights to speech, free assembly, etc. was Bush.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 03:24 PM   #20
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Article 1, Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
N-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-c-e!!!!
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