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Old August 19th, 2010, 04:07 PM   #1
redram98
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1st time cage welding, need help

not quite sure where to start or anything. I am a competant welder w/ certs, but very sheltered as i have never used either of the machines available. old school 220 lincoln air cooled tig and 110 flux cored mig, no gas hook up. the tubing is i believe dom 1.5 od, .175 wall.

1st dilema is, would i be ok to use the mig? i dont like to mig anything, but the guy im doing this for can only mig and wants to be able to do some of it himself. bad idea to attempt using the mig?

2nd is that i dont know how to go about this. really not sure where to start, where to/ how many tacks to place or how to sequence the welds. i will be starting this over the weekend will try to get some pictures. thanks in advance.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 04:59 PM   #2
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It's 1/8" - 3/16" tube, either works just fine for that. Flux Core is hot enough even with a 110v for that.

Biggest thing is just make sure your cage design is good, and your joints are tight fitting and it will be fine.

People overthink it a little, its nothing that needs to be different that any other weld. I would imagine if you have welding certs of some sort, you've welded 1/8" steel before.. (Usually cages are made from 1.75" x 0.120" wall tube).

Just get it all tacked together, then weld away. Keep an eye on things to make sure they aren't pulling out of square as they heat/cool. I usually use about 3 good tacks per joint, depends on the joint..
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 08:37 PM   #3
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i definatly over though it, which was good in this situation. the joints fit like total shit, some spots over 1/8 gap, and on top of that he tacked it together w the flux core in some spots, with very very poor penetration and bead form. needless to say i had to remove all of his tacks and made the executive decision to tig the cage. It was definatly a learning experience, in some cases cup walking 5g filling gaps >1/8 on my back using my head to operate the pedal. turned out pretty well, though it is not 100% complete yet. thanks for the info Jesus , i tried to keep a "just weld it" attitude. got a little discouraged at the MASSIVE gaps then just filled away.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 08:45 PM   #4
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have some pics. they are terrible for the most part (picture quality), but though i would throw them in anyways. the welds are not at all perfect, keep in mind that i was hand weaving the torch and dumping mass amount of rod into the joint gaps.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 08:47 PM   #5
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That is the thing about tig it is gravy to fill gaps and still keep good fusion to the tube. For tigging pipe I will generally gap a big pipe (12"and bigger) to around 3/16 because you will only have 1/16 by the time you get through your root. The foot pedal sucks for in position work that's why don't use pedals or thumb switch's, you just have to learn to tail out on your stops.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 09:09 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by chadcooper55 View Post
That is the thing about tig it is gravy to fill gaps and still keep good fusion to the tube. For tigging pipe I will generally gap a big pipe (12"and bigger) to around 3/16 because you will only have 1/16 by the time you get through your root. The foot pedal sucks for in position work that's why don't use pedals or thumb switch's, you just have to learn to tail out on your stops.
i know it, works alot better than dicking around w that mig. would have been much easier on me position wise, but i really did not trust that machine. The biggest pipe i have worked with was 8in., which i gapped to 3/16. really not that far of a shot from a majority of the gaps i was working with though, but i didnt have the beauty of multiple passes...think i should? i mean some spots were close to 1/4that i filled. i though it was sketchy as hell, but the guy i did it for was happy
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 09:21 PM   #7
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I always like 2-3 passes on about everything but I am overly picky with my welds. Generally the larger puddle the more risk of gas pockets there is. I also find it easier to tie into everything with smaller welds and more passes. With a single pass it would be impossible to pass x ray. But like I said, I'm picky as hell.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 09:28 PM   #8
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I always like 2-3 passes on about everything but I am overly picky with my welds. Generally the larger puddle the more risk of gas pockets there is. I also find it easier to tie into everything with smaller welds and more passes. With a single pass it would be impossible to pass x ray. But like I said, I'm picky as hell.
x2 on picky-ness. on the massive gaps i padded the edges of the cut tubes where i could to try to build up a little more of a surface to work with. I have been thing about going over some of the undercut, but dont wanna put too much heat into the tubing. think that would be a problem? never done an xray, but done bend tests enough to know im not quite ready to be a fitter.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 09:35 PM   #9
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Carbon pipe is awful with undercut when tigging! It is too damn slippery when you are walking the cup. I have been doing a bunch of x ray ss pipe lately and that is way easier than carbon. When you are getting that just hold your edge a bit longer with your torch. It also helps to be walking the cup or atleast keep your torch at a simmilar angle like you are walking to cup. If you hold it perpindicular to the pipe it is a pita!
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 09:59 PM   #10
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yea no kidding. quite a bit of undercut that i was not expecting. nothing major, just bothers me.in some spots i was able to actually cup walk, but a majority was weaving the torch myself free hand. would love to do some stainless pipe, my pipe welding experience is fairly limited, having only done 6 and 8 in. sched. 40 and now roll cages.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 10:04 PM   #11
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Chances are you were using er
70s rod so you have 70000 lbs of strength for each square inch of weld. Even if you fucked up quite a bit it will be more than strong enough.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 10:09 PM   #12
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Chances are you were using er
70s rod so you have 70000 lbs of strength for each square inch of weld. Even if you fucked up quite a bit it will be more than strong enough.

yes. haha yes i was. 70s6 i believe. thats an awesome comment btw.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 10:17 PM   #13
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If you run into any issues just drop me a pm.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 11:52 PM   #14
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If you run into any issues just drop me a pm.
thanks man appreciate it.
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