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Old August 6th, 2010, 11:11 AM   #21
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My power went out for 5 hours last night. Probably due to an overload because everybody was running AC. What happens when everbody has to plug in their cars.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 11:24 AM   #22
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Maybe GM is planning on making a few extra bucks by shipping along some extra goodies say maybe in the tires?
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Old August 6th, 2010, 12:20 PM   #23
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My power went out for 5 hours last night. Probably due to an overload because everybody was running AC. What happens when everbody has to plug in their cars.
Believe me, this question has not gone un-asked in the utility industry. When are loads typically the highest? In the summer, it is about 4-6pm when the heat is the highest and everyone gets home and cranks the A/C. During the winter, it is about 4-6pm when everyone is getting home, turning on lights, turning up electric heaters (not that big a deal in MI as we don't have a ton of inductive heating), and street lights are coming on. When do plug-in cars get plugged in? Yep. 4-5pm when most people are getting home from work. Brilliant.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 12:31 PM   #24
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My power went out for 5 hours last night. Probably due to an overload because everybody was running AC. What happens when everbody has to plug in their cars.
Think about how easy it will be to just "hit the switch" and immobilize the country. You have to think beyond the immediate future.
just sayin
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Old August 6th, 2010, 01:58 PM   #25
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Think about how easy it will be to just "hit the switch" and immobilize the country. You have to think beyond the immediate future.
just sayin
He is thinking more than just the immediate future. Upgrading a power infrastructure is a long term problem. No one wants power plants built anywhere. Coal is considered bad, no one wants to look at a neculear reactor. The hippies in California refuse to let a power plant be built there and they suffer rolling blackouts for it. I think its been 30 years since once has been built. They are extreme but their attitude is shared.



I beleive the Volt is way more marketable than the Leaf. Even if you do most traveling within 50 miles a day everyone has a need to make long trips. So do you have to go get another car just for longer trips? Even Nissan says that the 100 miles may vary up to 40%. So on cold days with the heater on, you could only see 60 miles then have to wait up to 8 hours to charge it again. At least you can keep going with the Volt and they claim to get 38 MPG after the electric charge is out.

I do hate to see them investing in a Mexican plant and I think it sends the wrong message.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 05:50 PM   #26
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He is thinking more than just the immediate future. Upgrading a power infrastructure is a long term problem. No one wants power plants built anywhere. Coal is considered bad, no one wants to look at a neculear reactor. The hippies in California refuse to let a power plant be built there and they suffer rolling blackouts for it. I think its been 30 years since once has been built. They are extreme but their attitude is shared.



I beleive the Volt is way more marketable than the Leaf. Even if you do most traveling within 50 miles a day everyone has a need to make long trips. So do you have to go get another car just for longer trips? Even Nissan says that the 100 miles may vary up to 40%. So on cold days with the heater on, you could only see 60 miles then have to wait up to 8 hours to charge it again. At least you can keep going with the Volt and they claim to get 38 MPG after the electric charge is out.

I do hate to see them investing in a Mexican plant and I think it sends the wrong message.
I agree with pretty much all of that.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 06:17 PM   #27
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You really need to check your stats. I'm guessing you have never been to a facility in Mexico that has been built in the last decade or 2.
Actually I have worked in Saultio, Ramos and Quetero at times in the last 15 years. I remember how the plant looked nice and all the employees were dressed in matching work clothes, kept things clean and how the cafeteria food was provided for the workers and how transportation was also taken care of.

But I also seen that it was over 100-degrees F inside, some of the tools that were provided were very hard to use and that the workers were unskilled but willing to work. They took pride in what they did, but couldn't put out the same quality as say Flint Assembly did on the GMT 800 or what was going on in Fairfax with the car lines. We tried to train them as best as we could and they were willing to put in the work, but I still have to say that the quality, knowledge and amenities are not equal to U.S. plants. Maybe things are changing and all the money being pumped down there will help my relatives live better lives, but I still think GM needs to invest in the dumps here in the states like Defiance OH, Saginaw, re-opening Moraine an Janesville and re-tooling and adding lines to Flint, Pontiac East, Arlington and Wentzville.
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Old August 6th, 2010, 06:50 PM   #28
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I'm sorry, its not unaffordable. If $40k is unaffordable, you wouldn't see any of these cars on the road.
$35,000-$45,000 cars.

And, I don't know about you, but I see quite a few cars on the road these days that are in that range.
Affordable all depends on your point of view. Sure, the average new car buyer can afford a $40K vehicle, because the average new car buyer today has some money and can get a loan. The majority of the working class either can't afford the $40K price tag or get a loan now, so he's buying used. Which is OK...but if GM would have set their sites on the mid-$20K price range I THINK they would have captured a larger target group i.e. both the upper middle class and the working class. Sales could have then went to the man who wants to help the environment, to the guy who needs help in paying for his gas to get to work, the young tree huggers, the old fuddy-duddies, people who WANT an electric car and people in general who think its the right thing to do.

(Personal note: If I'm spending $40K plus on a vehicle it ain't gonna be no Electric Car now, C'mon!)

To prove my point who is buying the brand new 2010 Lexus, Land Rover, Avalanche, Corvettes and Range Rovers that are in your link? I don't have stats but it is most likely the minority Upper Middle class and not the majority Working Class.
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Old August 7th, 2010, 11:15 PM   #29
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Of the 3 I think the Volt is the most marketable. The Prius is only a hybrid, it can not be plugged in to charge
Who would want to stop and plug-in a car and wait for it to charge?? I happen to own and love the hybrid concept.... It self-charges itself. If the battery is run out, it runs on gas. You are never stranded as long as there is gas in the tank...that is the beauty of being a hybrid. I wouldn't want a car that holds back my freedom or take additional planning to get where I want to go.
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Old August 7th, 2010, 11:20 PM   #30
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To WhiteRhino's point...so much for American auto companies keeping the profits in the USA huh?? I am removed from much of the press of auto industry since we moved, but I thought that having the UAW taking over legacy costs would make it a more 'even playing field' for labor costs so plants could be built in the USA... ??
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Old August 8th, 2010, 01:21 AM   #31
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"...the gas engine will start and you can continue.."

someone who buys the leaf will have a short daily commute (say 20-30 miles), and they will have another vehicle for expended trips
And they will also have an outrageous electric bill every month...pay at the pump or pay consumers energy what difference does it make?
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Old August 8th, 2010, 06:31 AM   #32
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BUY AMERICAN.......
To many jobs lost here, unemployment is high, I don't think I will buy a vehicle from another country that takes jobs from us, doesn't matter if the company is making profit off the USA citizens.
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Old August 8th, 2010, 08:02 AM   #33
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Mexico didn't bailout GM, U.S. tax dollars did. How about investing in America (and creating jobs here) for a while.
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Old August 8th, 2010, 08:12 AM   #34
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Mexico didn't bailout GM, U.S. tax dollars did. How about investing in America (and creating jobs here) for a while.
Agree.
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Old August 8th, 2010, 09:16 AM   #35
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To prove my point who is buying the brand new 2010 Lexus, Land Rover, Avalanche, Corvettes and Range Rovers that are in your link? I don't have stats but it is most likely the minority Upper Middle class and not the majority Working Class.
You didn't prove anything. Thats the point I was making, I see a lot of cars in that bracket on the roads. It doesn't matter if they bought them by finance or not, people are still buying cars in the $40,000 range.

Mowing has me on the road half of the day, and I'd bet I've seen atleast %75 of the cars on that list in a day. I couldn't even count the number of GM vehicles around $40,000+ that I see, INCLUDING multiple new Corvette's. And even though the new Camaro is in a little bit lower price bracket, I bet I see 20 of those a day.

There are plenty of people out there who would be willing to spend the money on one if they wanted to. I'd bet that there are plenty of hardcore GM followers who have been waiting for their answer to the Prius, and I dont have any doubt that it will sell.
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Old August 9th, 2010, 08:56 PM   #36
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Um, Mexico...

NAFTA....

Thay terk er jerbs!!!
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Old August 11th, 2010, 06:56 AM   #37
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Mexico didn't bailout GM, U.S. tax dollars did. How about investing in America (and creating jobs here) for a while.
Off the top of my head:

- adding tooling and shifts at Lordstown
- investment / start of production of the some GMT900's in flint
- investment / start of producing family 1 engines in the U.S. (the 1.4L/1.8L)
- investment / start of production of Li-ion batteries in the U.S.
- investment in recycling waste into bio fuels

Those are 5 quick ones off the top of my head while on a test trip in colorado supporting the local economy developing 2015 Duramax software.
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