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Old August 4th, 2010, 10:59 AM   #21
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So if a shopping mall went up there you'd be ok with it?

We might as well just tear down the WWII monument and Vietnam memorial if someone else has the cash to put something else there.
It's not my land to decide. Why do you think you have the right to tell a land owner what he and she can do with the land? It's not government owned. It's private land.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 10:59 AM   #22
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That would probably work, but I'm talking about completely tearing it down.
Which would mean basically no memorial at ground zero. And I would strongly disagree with that decision.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 11:44 AM   #23
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Which would mean basically no memorial at ground zero. And I would strongly disagree with that decision.
Ok, at least we're on the same page there.

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It's not my land to decide. Why do you think you have the right to tell a land owner what he and she can do with the land? It's not government owned. It's private land.
Now that I know the mosque is a couple blocks away, my argument is null and void.

Who even owns the actual ground zero site? If it's the city, it's there's to do what they please.

You still never answered my question about tearing down monuments to build whatever someone with the money wants to.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 11:53 AM   #24
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You still never answered my question about tearing down monuments to build whatever someone with the money wants to.
I don't know why you keep saying that. Nobody tore down the World Trade Center to build something else and the theoretical arguement that arose from this is ridiculous.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 12:02 PM   #25
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BTW, the Mosque that they're going to build is going to be built on property that has been owned for 61 years by a muslim group. They have had a rec center there and they are simply upgrading to a big ol' worship building
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Old August 4th, 2010, 12:02 PM   #26
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I don't know why you keep saying that. Nobody tore down the World Trade Center to build something else and the theoretical arguement that arose from this is ridiculous.
It tore down by itself?

I'm bringing up the argument because Bill's argument was that if someone has the money they have the right to build something where they want.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 12:04 PM   #27
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I'm bringing up the argument because Bill's argument was that if someone has the money they have the right to build something where they want.
That's how the world works. That is why my cousin has to pay $35,000 a year for a parking place in washington dc where he lives, but you can park for free at your apartment complex. Supply & demand. This is like 3rd grade economics.

People with the most money, and the biggest guns tend to get their way.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 12:04 PM   #28
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I don't know why you keep saying that. Nobody tore down the World Trade Center to build something else and the theoretical arguement that arose from this is ridiculous.
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BTW, the Mosque that they're going to build is going to be built on property that has been owned for 61 years by a muslim group. They have had a rec center there and they are simply upgrading to a big ol' worship building
doesnt change the fact I'm working on those hand drawn pictures rights now...I'm going to either make a fortune or get socked in the mouth by one of the musbums
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Old August 4th, 2010, 12:08 PM   #29
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So.....its been 9 years....

Why is there still a hole there?


I mean, why has no one/ company built something on the site? I assume a lot of valuable real estate/ floor space was lost when those two enormous buildings disappeared. Why has a replacement tower/ towers/ complex/ memorial/ monument not been started yet? I think it would be a great opportunity for a company/ companies to build a building to rival the new skyscrapers popping up in asia and dubai.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 12:16 PM   #30
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The building is already used for prayers as a Mosque and other activities. It is not on ground zero but nearby.

There is nothing to discuss as far as I'm concerned. People need to get over it...let's all try to get along already!
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Old August 4th, 2010, 12:16 PM   #31
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That's how the world works. That is why my cousin has to pay $35,000 a year for a parking place in washington dc where he lives, but you can park for free at your apartment complex. Supply & demand. This is like 3rd grade economics.

People with the most money, and the biggest guns tend to get their way.
Agreed....pretty simple.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 12:31 PM   #32
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So.....its been 9 years....

Why is there still a hole there?


I mean, why has no one/ company built something on the site? I assume a lot of valuable real estate/ floor space was lost when those two enormous buildings disappeared. Why has a replacement tower/ towers/ complex/ memorial/ monument not been started yet? I think it would be a great opportunity for a company/ companies to build a building to rival the new skyscrapers popping up in asia and dubai.
just a guess, but....

bureaucracy???
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Old August 4th, 2010, 01:00 PM   #33
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That's how the world works. That is why my cousin has to pay $35,000 a year for a parking place in washington dc where he lives, but you can park for free at your apartment complex. Supply & demand. This is like 3rd grade economics.

People with the most money, and the biggest guns tend to get their way.
Cities still have to sign off. You still have zoning and other building requirements. It's not completely free reign.

It would be nice if it were as simple as you state it to be. I'd rather go that route.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 01:08 PM   #34
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BTW, the Mosque that they're going to build is going to be built on property that has been owned for 61 years by a muslim group. They have had a rec center there and they are simply upgrading to a big ol' worship building
reference link?
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Old August 4th, 2010, 01:20 PM   #35
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Says a lot of people.

If someone could theoretically buy the Washington monument, and build a church there, do you think that would be cool?
If a private person owned the land the Washington monument stood on, they would have the right to tear it down.

However, a private individual does not own that land and it would take an act of Congress for the Federal Government to sell it as it is a National Memorial.

Very bad example.

Now, if a land deal was arranged that sold "normal" federal land to a private individual, he would have the right to develop that property any way he chooses, per local building codes and ordinances.

As for the topic at hand, I agree with CC (hell froze over again). The First amendment can really be a Catch 22.

BTW GM, you are usually pretty well informed, yet this time you assumed the Mosque would be at ground zero. Have you been attending Beck U or something?
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Old August 4th, 2010, 01:24 PM   #36
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Cities still have to sign off. You still have zoning and other building requirements. It's not completely free reign.

It would be nice if it were as simple as you state it to be. I'd rather go that route.
Yes, local ordinances and zoning rules have to be met. But, the local government can not be biased against or for any individual or group without valid, legal reason.

If a church is allowed to have a bell tower 100 ft high with church bells sounding (as long as it is not during the "quiet hours"), then the Mosque with a 100 ft minaret calling Muslims to prayer must also be allowed.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 01:27 PM   #37
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I'm bringing up the argument because Bill's argument was that if someone has the money they have the right to build something where they want.
Most if not all monuments are built on govt land or 100+ year leases, not or private land.

And yes, if someone has the money they can build what they want. Thats why money is so cool and people like it alot.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 01:30 PM   #38
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reference link?
Google Feisal Abdul Rauf, and find it. I don't have time right now. A company called soho bought the property last year for just under 5 million from a muslim league who owned the building prior.
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Old August 4th, 2010, 01:32 PM   #39
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Google Feisal Abdul Rauf, and find it. I don't have time right now.
holding up the foursome behind you?
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Old August 4th, 2010, 01:34 PM   #40
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holding up the foursome behind you?
actually....
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