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Old July 17th, 2010, 04:04 AM   #1
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Default God's Grace from the beginning.

I was working tonight (1AM-4AM ) and was listening to a Podcast from Mark Driscol. He spelled out this idea very clearly.


God did not send Adam and Eve out of the Garden as a Form of Punishment. He Sent them out of the Garden to show them grace. In the Garden they could eat of the tree of life, allowing them to live forever. By Kicking them out God allowed them to die. We, believers and non believers alike, should be happy that we are not allowed to live forever in the fallen state we are in.

Furthermore, We should also be Glad that God allows us to die so that we can be Resurected with his son. Allowing us to live as we were supposed to in the first place; That is, With God in a perfect world.

I thought it was a Very interesting Sermon. You guys should be glad I haven't done this every night. I could, and I might possibly.
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Old July 17th, 2010, 05:28 AM   #2
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Old July 17th, 2010, 06:28 AM   #3
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Yeah for 3rd shift 10pm to 630am here. And for the god stuff cool but I'm not a believer.
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Old July 17th, 2010, 07:44 AM   #4
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That is an interesting way to look at it. With the thought of awaiting the big prize after death is worth so much more. I guess working hard for your life and then to retire in God's glory for eturnity.
I still have a hard time to wrap my brain around "forever".
Your thoughts are always appriciated Scott.
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Old July 17th, 2010, 04:05 PM   #5
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what if i were god? what if i am the second coming? you guys have no proof that I am not
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Old July 17th, 2010, 05:48 PM   #6
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what if i were god? what if i am the second coming? you guys have no proof that I am not
Actually we do. If you're going by what we believe, the bible is the ispired word of God. What Christians draw from this is God's Character. Part of that being he never changes. There are Multiple books of the bible that fortell the 'second coming'. Most are writings of a Prophet which (remember we're assuming that this is true, because that's part of our faith) chronicle how things will go down. Not many of them have gone down yet.

Secondly, If You were Christ V 2.0, You wouldn't be wasting your time on this web forum. That and you'd be starting the process of Spilling God's Wrath onto the world. No time to belittle people when you have so much of that to do. .

Thirdly, Back to the bible. It is said that we will hear a trumpet sound and Jesus will come out of the clouds riding a white horse with the Army of God behind him.. I didn't see anything like that happen yet. Can you imagine this huge display of God's (the one who created every Glorious thing on this planet and universe) Glory and then he sits down at a computer desk and Starts making fun of people online? Posing as a Police officer, not only that but a Vulgar one? I just don't see it. Sorry.

If you don't believe in the bible that's fine. However, You asked a question about a faith based in the bible. The Foundations of that faith are the bible. We get what we believe from the bible. Hope I cleared up that we get the information for the base of our belief from....you guessed it....The bible. So, In this case, asking a Question about Christianity (a Faith that is based in the bible) you cannot say "the bible isn't proof". Because it is to us.

Answer your question?
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Old July 17th, 2010, 06:37 PM   #7
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what if god changes his mind? what if i change my mind? what if the wrath is really making people feel stupid? And I've never posed as anything...except for a hooker once but thats a whole other story
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Old July 17th, 2010, 07:42 PM   #8
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what if god changes his mind? what if i change my mind? what if the wrath is really making people feel stupid? And I've never posed as anything...except for a hooker once but thats a whole other story
The Bible teaches that God never changes his mind. He is a constant in this world. If he wasn't, Personally, I wouldn't follow him. This is one of the reasons for faith. To have something that is Constant in your life. It's against his Character as well. If he changed his mind then his plan would be pointless.
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Old July 17th, 2010, 07:55 PM   #9
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neither you or the bible can predict if god will change his mind...if he is all powerful then he could do as he will...bible or no bible...thats not his rule book its yours....but you say you believe, and that is your right...I was told 500yrs ago people believed the earth was flat...turned out they werent even close. On a side note do you think there are any other intelligent life forms somewhere else out there?
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Old July 17th, 2010, 08:07 PM   #10
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neither you or the bible can predict if god will change his mind...if he is all powerful then he could do as he will...bible or no bible...thats not his rule book its yours....but you say you believe, and that is your right...I was told 500yrs ago people believed the earth was flat...turned out they werent even close.
Ok, Per my Belief: God's word is Inspired BY HIM. The Prophets of the old and new testament speak GOD'S WORD to the people. Those words are written down in the bible. His Character, just like anybody else's, is seen through his words. You can tell how somebody acts alot of the time by thier words. He also makes thousands of promises through his Prophets in this word. On another note, God has to be Pure. If he changes his mind, His promises are no longer true, making him a liar. Which is impossible because his character is pure. You may not like the idea but that is the Christian belief and where faith comes into the picture. We have to have faith that his character in the bible is true.

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On a side note do you think there are any other intelligent life forms somewhere else out there?
I haven't seen anything, in my personal life, to say other wise. Or do you mean non-creator life forms? If so, I'm not sure. How sweet would it be if ET came down to earth in his Brown turd awesomeness and told us about the God they believe in and it matched up with Mine. Would you still then question his Existence?
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Old July 17th, 2010, 08:23 PM   #11
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Ok, Per my Belief: God's word is Inspired BY HIM. The Prophets of the old and new testament speak GOD'S WORD to the people. Those words are written down in the bible. His Character, just like anybody else's, is seen through his words. You can tell how somebody acts alot of the time by thier words. He also makes thousands of promises through his Prophets in this word. On another note, God has to be Pure. If he changes his mind, His promises are no longer true, making him a liar. Which is impossible because his character is pure. You may not like the idea but that is the Christian belief and where faith comes into the picture. We have to have faith that his character in the bible is true.



I haven't seen anything, in my personal life, to say other wise. Or do you mean non-creator life forms? If so, I'm not sure. How sweet would it be if ET came down to earth in his Brown turd awesomeness and told us about the God they believe in and it matched up with Mine. Would you still then question his Existence?

well look at it this way...if god is almighty, then god doesnt have to be pure as you put it if he chooses...one day he might look at people as his ultimate fukc up and say screw it. Its good to have faith, but with that faith one has to be prepared that what they believe my not be what it turns out to be....what if the people that wrote the bible, wrote in such a way as to protect the people reading it from the truth...and the truth was, god does as he pleases, smokes, drinks, lies...ect.....my point is there are many religions and not all of them can be right, even though they all believe that they are and to go based soley on whats in the bible to base everything on is kinda arrogant. that book was edited many times before it got to the point to which you have come to know it..where are the missing parts?
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Old July 17th, 2010, 08:55 PM   #12
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My 2 cents, God did say screw it once and flooded the earth and there is evidence of it. He did say he will do it again, only with fire.
Just because what God said does not line up with what you think is correct it still does not change the fact that He is God He created everything and He made up the rules and we are to play by His rules, He's the Boss, and you can play by His rules or not, it is your choice, He gave us free will. BUt with free will there are consquences.
God does do what He pleases, it does not include sin.
If you were to go back and learn the bible from the original text, hebrew then you would see that it lines up with the word today.
Your logic does not hold water, so to speak.
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Old July 17th, 2010, 09:15 PM   #13
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My 2 cents, God did say screw it once and flooded the earth and there is evidence of it. He did say he will do it again, only with fire.
Just because what God said does not line up with what you think is correct it still does not change the fact that He is God He created everything and He made up the rules and we are to play by His rules, He's the Boss, and you can play by His rules or not, it is your choice, He gave us free will. BUt with free will there are consquences.
God does do what He pleases, it does not include sin.
If you were to go back and learn the bible from the original text, hebrew then you would see that it lines up with the word today.
Your logic does not hold water, so to speak.
then by his rules it could include sin if he wanted to...as you put it, he is the boss, we play by his rules...and as the rule maker he could, if he chooses to, do whatever he wants. To change the rules so to speak to fit his needs or wants....and that includes drawing pictures of mohamed if he desired
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Old July 17th, 2010, 09:57 PM   #14
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well look at it this way...if god is almighty, then god doesnt have to be pure as you put it if he chooses...one day he might look at people as his ultimate fukc up and say screw it.
He doesn't have to be, but he is. Could that change? Sure. Has it? No. This is the exact same arguement I have with people about science, Just reversed. Scientists ASSUME the the world has always been the exact same it is. There is a Possibility that there could have been some form of HUGE cataclymic event that changed this existance tically, to what it is now. There's no proof of that, Neither is there proof that God will change. According to what I believe. And part of that is that God is Constant, pure, holy, the truth, the light, the way, ETC. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I won't be wishy washy about it just because I could be wrong.

From Christians Theological History book I have no reason to believe other then God is Constant and pure. He has not shown the opposite.



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Its good to have faith, but with that faith one has to be prepared that what they believe my not be what it turns out to be....what if the people that wrote the bible, wrote in such a way as to protect the people reading it from the truth...and the truth was, god does as he pleases, smokes, drinks, lies...ect....
Is that a possibility? Sure. I have seen no proof of this from my experience. You'll find most Christians share that idea. If there was a giant Cigarette in the sky, I might be skeptical. But there isn't. God, if he does what he pleases, has kept that from us for some reason. I tend to think because he is what he claims to be from the days of Mosses to today. There is no proof of his "other side" in this world. Just the one portrayed in the bible.

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.my point is there are many religions and not all of them can be right, even though they all believe that they are and to go based soley on whats in the bible to base everything on is kinda arrogant. that book was edited many times before it got to the point to which you have come to know it..where are the missing parts?

It's not arrogant if that's a belief. The only reason I would see that you find it Arrogant is if you are somehow offended by it. It's just confidence and an ability to stand with that confidence in the word of God. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

"One religion can't have it right" will not excuse you from the consequences if my religion is right. I want to be clear on that. Or maybe I should say it this way. If you want to use the Logic when you approach the throne of God, Let me know how it goes. better yet, Tell me so I can be there. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. If I'm right, I don't have enough time to let everybody know what those consequences are, I must let everybody I know in on the Gift. Teller (from Pen and Teller) said it best. "How much do you have to hate someone to not tell them about eternal Suffering". I just want to be very clear on that.

Also, About the "edited" part. That is a Matter of Faith as well. I have faith that the people at the Counsel of Nicea had the best interests in hand. It still doesn't take away from the gospel message and it's not like those edited d books are In a Vault deep with in the Vatican. They are available for every one to see. They are actually often used to bring context to the culture of that time period. It's not a huge secret or something. Also, Alot of the Translations are straight from the oldest scripts we have of the bible texts. Those scripts being with in 100 years of the original time it happened. The rest of Literature can't claim that for people like Plato, homer, Socrates, ETC.
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Old July 17th, 2010, 10:36 PM   #15
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Old July 17th, 2010, 10:55 PM   #16
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From Christians Theological History book I have no reason to believe other then God is Constant and pure. He has not shown the opposite.
Did you forget when he supposedly flooded the earth to eradicate mankind?
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Old July 17th, 2010, 10:57 PM   #17
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I unsuccessfully tried to crack a walnut using my testicles.

Most enlightening thing in this thread.
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Old July 18th, 2010, 12:10 AM   #18
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Did you forget when he supposedly flooded the earth to eradicate mankind?
Did he promise he wouldn't do that before he did it? No. Has the whole world flooded since then? No.. I'm curious what you meant by that.

Also, He didn't do it to eradicate all of man kind. Just the Wicked. God is pure, he is holy, he is with out sin. He can't be in the presence of sin nor does he like his children to drown in it. I see the Flood as the exact same thing as the Garden and other multiple examples of God's Grace. The Ultimate being his sons death on the cross. All of those examples being a place where he takes/gives us (man kind) the ability to change our standing with him or to "put us out of our Misery". I also highly doubt he enjoys it.
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Old July 18th, 2010, 12:27 AM   #19
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Well God does change his mind and can be bartered with as proven in Gen:19 22-33 where Abraham barter to save the righteous with in Sodom and God says if he finds 50 righteous then says what if I find 45 then God "changes his mind" and says ok 40 righteous then they barter to 30 then 20 then 10 righteous, but Abraham only finds 9 and God "true to his word" destroys the cities...

Now God can change his mind, this the bible proves.. But it also says God will never go back on his word. Big diferance
Gods word is layed out in the bible so if he gave his word(and he did) that the 2nd coming with be with Jesus coming and a trumpets sounds followed by Gods army will happen, it will happen (I hope and believe just not anytime soon) so Mike Hancho can continue to make his porno's and piss people off, but can't be Jesus's second coming.. But is wright that God can change his mind, just not his sinless word..
Hope that clears it up
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Old July 18th, 2010, 08:31 AM   #20
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Well God does change his mind and can be bartered with as proven in Gen:19 22-33 where Abraham barter to save the righteous with in Sodom and God says if he finds 50 righteous then says what if I find 45 then God "changes his mind" and says ok 40 righteous then they barter to 30 then 20 then 10 righteous, but Abraham only finds 9 and God "true to his word" destroys the cities...

Now God can change his mind, this the bible proves.. But it also says God will never go back on his word. Big diferance
Gods word is layed out in the bible so if he gave his word(and he did) that the 2nd coming with be with Jesus coming and a trumpets sounds followed by Gods army will happen, it will happen (I hope and believe just not anytime soon) so Mike Hancho can continue to make his porno's and piss people off, but can't be Jesus's second coming.. But is wright that God can change his mind, just not his sinless word..
Hope that clears it up
Thank you. That's what I was trying to say to rebel about The flood. He can change his mind but once he makes a promise, he keeps it. I don't see that really as changing his mind though. I see it as him allowing Sodom Grace. Just as he did for us on the cross with Christ. We cannot live up to a standard that God has for us but instead of lowering his standard he lifts us up to it with his son when he dies on the cross. That's Grace, God's all about it.
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