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Old July 14th, 2010, 04:36 PM   #41
jeepinRRT
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Yes, but can they do anything to you if you refuse to answer?
Nope, not even if you are carrying a pistol
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Old July 14th, 2010, 07:45 PM   #42
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If I was only concerned with myself I would have no worries either. Unfortunately I have this annoying habit of being concerned with the rights of others. I do not want to see “looking like you’re not from around here” being a reason for police harassment.
Dude WTF? You say that you are "concerned" with the rights of others. IF they are illegal they dont have right's in this country. And if they are legal then they have nothing to worry about.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 08:08 PM   #43
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It's not. I have no problem with that part of the law. The person violated the law and was arrested. I think that the police should full check out anyone who is arrested for any reason and if they are found to be in violation of any law they should be turned over to the agency responsible for the enforcement of that law.

I’m just not comfortable with the police having free reign to drag off to jail anyone they come in contact with who they might think is not from around here and doesn’t have his paper’s with him to prove his status.
I agree with that in principal, but we have to face the facts that the world is complicated place. Even though it may not be required (that issues seems to still be in question), I cannot remember the last time I went anywhere without my ID (or cell phone for that matter). And for those that are here legally but not citizens, they agree to make their papers available on request at any time as part of the process that they entered into voluntarily.

I appreciate the analytical approach everyone has put into the technical details of these bills. Personally though, I wish people as much focus on the fact that we arrived at this point because the feds failed miserably at protecting our borders. One of the few reasons we created a federal government was border security and they cannot manage even that.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 08:23 PM   #44
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One of the few reasons we created a federal government was border security and they cannot manage even that.
Name one thing that they can manage.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 08:41 PM   #45
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Dude WTF? You say that you are "concerned" with the rights of others. IF they are illegal they dont have right's in this country. And if they are legal then they have nothing to worry about.
I'm talking about the Americans that have the misfortune of looking they might be from somewhere else. Sure they have "nothing to worry about", as long as they make sure they always have thier ID with them. I would not want that requirement placed on me, so I don't think it should be placed on any American.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 08:47 PM   #46
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Anybody who goes anywhere without some sort of ID is an idiot. What if you get hit by a car walking to the store to get a gallon of milk? How the hell are they supposed to know who you are to notify your relatives that you're in a coma at the hospital? What if you died in a robbery attempt at the store? Lay in that morgue for months while your family grieves, not knowing why you just vanished.

"I shouldn't have to carry an ID" is a lame ass excuse to bitch about the immigration bill. Persecution of legal citizens my ass. Persecution because you have to tell someone who you are? Give me a break. STFU and carry an ID. Knowing how big a problem illegal immigration is in this country, you should be more than happy to prove you belong here and go about your merry way after the fact. Keep bitching about it and you're part of the problem.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 08:48 PM   #47
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I appreciate the analytical approach everyone has put into the technical details of these bills. Personally though, I wish people as much focus on the fact that we arrived at this point because the feds failed miserably at protecting our borders. One of the few reasons we created a federal government was border security and they cannot manage even that.
I hope people don't do that. The last thing we need is a bunch of new laws passed in reaction to old laws not being enforced. I believe that would be a huge mistake.

And as I've said numerous times in these threads, I really think we should first go after the Americans who illegally employ these illegal immigrants. Once we elliminate some of the reasons they are comming here then the situation might be controlable.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 08:54 PM   #48
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I hope people don't do that. The last thing we need is a bunch of new laws passed in reaction to old laws not being enforced. I believe that would be a huge mistake.

And as I've said numerous times in these threads, I really think we should first go after the Americans who illegally employ these illegal immigrants. Once we elliminate some of the reasons they are comming here then the situation might be controlable.
Actually, about 60% of the Arizona bill (the one everyone is bitching about) does exactly that.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 08:56 PM   #49
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Anybody who goes anywhere without some sort of ID is an idiot. What if you get hit by a car walking to the store to get a gallon of milk? How the hell are they supposed to know who you are to notify your relatives that you're in a coma at the hospital? What if you died in a robbery attempt at the store? Lay in that morgue for months while your family grieves, not knowing why you just vanished.

"I shouldn't have to carry an ID" is a lame ass excuse to bitch about the immigration bill. Persecution of legal citizens my ass. Persecution because you have to tell someone who you are? Give me a break. STFU and carry an ID. Knowing how big a problem illegal immigration is in this country, you should be more than happy to prove you belong here and go about your merry way after the fact. Keep bitching about it and you're part of the problem.
Yes, you should carry your ID. I just don't want to see Americans stuck in jail because they forgot it one day. It's not a right I'm willing to give up.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 08:59 PM   #50
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Anybody who goes anywhere without some sort of ID is an idiot. What if you get hit by a car walking to the store to get a gallon of milk? How the hell are they supposed to know who you are to notify your relatives that you're in a coma at the hospital? What if you died in a robbery attempt at the store? Lay in that morgue for months while your family grieves, not knowing why you just vanished.

"I shouldn't have to carry an ID" is a lame ass excuse to bitch about the immigration bill. Persecution of legal citizens my ass. Persecution because you have to tell someone who you are? Give me a break. STFU and carry an ID. Knowing how big a problem illegal immigration is in this country, you should be more than happy to prove you belong here and go about your merry way after the fact. Keep bitching about it and you're part of the problem.
this guy says it best
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Old July 14th, 2010, 09:01 PM   #51
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Yes, you should carry your ID. I just don't want to see Americans stuck in jail because they forgot it one day. It's not a right I'm willing to give up.
Sorry. Mom, Dad, significant other, roommate, or any handy relative can pick it up at their house, swing by the jail, and get them out of the pokey in no time.

Next argument.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 09:03 PM   #52
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Sorry. Mom, Dad, significant other, roommate, or any handy relative can pick it up at their house, swing by the jail, and get them out of the pokey in no time.

Next argument.
So, you are advocating the wrongful incarceration of law abiding citizens because they forget their wallet that day?

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
-Benjamin Franklin
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Old July 14th, 2010, 09:06 PM   #53
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So, you are advocating the wrongful incarceration of law abiding citizens because they forget their wallet that day?
Never said that. I just provided a simple solution to the one in a million chance occurence that you are so worried about.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 09:12 PM   #54
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“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
-Benjamin Franklin
Exactly WHAT freedom have you given up?
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Old July 14th, 2010, 09:14 PM   #55
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Actually, about 60% of the Arizona bill (the one everyone is bitching about) does exactly that.
Yes, the Arizona bill does have that : http://azgovernor.gov/dms/upload/SB_1070_Signed.pdf

This particular discussion was about Michigans attempt at a simular bill, but it is missing that part.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 09:16 PM   #56
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Sorry. Mom, Dad, significant other, roommate, or any handy relative can pick it up at their house, swing by the jail, and get them out of the pokey in no time.

Next argument.
Ever travel? I'm about 160 miles away from any close freind or family member right now.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 09:16 PM   #57
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Yes, the Arizona bill does have that : http://azgovernor.gov/dms/upload/SB_1070_Signed.pdf

This particular discussion was about Michigans attempt at a simular bill, but it is missing that part.
Check the Federal law. I bet it's nestled in there somewhere.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 09:17 PM   #58
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Exactly WHAT freedom have you given up?
Um the freedom to forget my wallet and not be thrown in jail. I mean, I really like that one, don't you?
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Old July 14th, 2010, 09:18 PM   #59
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Exactly WHAT freedom have you given up?
The freedom to not be required to carry identification papers with you at all times.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 09:23 PM   #60
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Um the freedom to forget my wallet and not be thrown in jail. I mean, I really like that one, don't you?
You mean your freedom to be irresponsible?

The time between when you leave home without it, and when you get back home to pick it up after you remember it, don't speed or run any red lights, or anything else that might get you stopped by a LEO. You don't have the freedom to do any of those things anyway. One in a million chance you get stopped on the EXACT DAY that you forget it.
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