Devos or Granholm - Page 4 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
View Poll Results: Who are you going to vote for?
Devos all the Way! 114 73.55%
Granholm for a 2 term 25 16.13%
I don't car, not gonna vote, then am gonna bitch about the winner. 16 10.32%
Voters: 155. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 14th, 2006, 01:26 AM   #61
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,509
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

This was in another tread but it fits better over here.

The rest of the country and most businesses only see the SE portion of MI with its lazy workforce and unions and that is sad. There are many sucessful companies in MI that are not in that part of the state but don't draw enough attention to thier proper business techniques. Look at Delfield in Mt. Pleasant, Morbark in Win or SteelCase for example plus many others.

Who ever is the next governor has a serious image problem that needs to be addressed. Untill this problem is addressed and resloved MI is going to slip farther and farther in the wrong direction. SE MI is only a small portion of the entire state and the country needs to realize that MI has a lot more to offer.
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old August 14th, 2006, 01:56 AM   #62
jamiesann
Senior Member
 
jamiesann's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods
Posts: 2,888
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmujeeper
This was in another tread but it fits better over here.

The rest of the country and most businesses only see the SE portion of MI with its lazy workforce and unions and that is sad. There are many sucessful companies in MI that are not in that part of the state but don't draw enough attention to thier proper business techniques. Look at Delfield in Mt. Pleasant, Morbark in Win or SteelCase for example plus many others.

Who ever is the next governor has a serious image problem that needs to be addressed. Untill this problem is addressed and resloved MI is going to slip farther and farther in the wrong direction. SE MI is only a small portion of the entire state and the country needs to realize that MI has a lot more to offer.
I can only assume we are talking population and not geographical area .... michigan is 9.9 million, the tri county area is 3 + million and the greater metro area is home to more than 5.4 million or more than half the states population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Detroit

I dont think most people outside the state lump metro detroit in with DETROIT proper, and even less think the rural areas are anything like detroit. Business folks around the country know about oakland county. Oakland county is a awsome place! Macomb county aint to shabby either. And ann arbor is often rated with grand rapids as some of the top 100 cities to live in and farmington hills and livonia are amongest the safest over 100k people.

I will grant you detroit is falling apart at a staggering rate ... but they wont let anyone help them. That aint news.
jamiesann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2006, 10:05 PM   #63
motrctyman
Just The Spouse's spouse
 
motrctyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-12-05
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,881
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

http://www.gregcreswell.org/
motrctyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2006, 10:45 PM   #64
Buggy_Tim
(513) 891-8372
 
Buggy_Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Sault Sainte Marie
Posts: 11,994
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Holy shit....I am so pissed right now I can't even read all that.

Charter schools good? 15 grand per student? Your property taxes pay for better schools? WTF are you getting this? Your home property tax has nothing to do with schools. Added mills do, but not your basic tax.

This is more directed at jamiesann than anyone else.

Quote:
My aunt runs all the food prep for warren highschools, my mom is classroom assistant for special ed kids, sis is teachers aid/classroom assistant for special ed/EI kids, as her husband (both will be special ed teachers in less than a year).........I lived with 3 ed students teachers at WMU...........
Food prep, assistants, WILL BE teachers, education STUDENTS....they know SHIT of how a school is funded. Food Prep? you gotta be kidding me.:tonka: None of those people are even in the teacher's union so what do they know?

Get of the wiki and do some ACTUAL research you lazy ass.

The MAX foundation allowance in Michigan per pupil for the 2005 school year was $7175 and that was for PSA's. You have no clue as to how schools are funded or financed. Most schools don't get close to that.

Quote:
How do private schools outperform public schools with out money from the state, and much less money per student and per classroom is my point.
First...private schools don't "outperform" every public school in Michigan. You need to do some research on that. Accountability measures for private schools are not as extensive, nor as well enforced, as they are for public schools.

Second, those students that can go there are from a higher socioeconomic background and that makes a HUGE difference.

Third, is that most private and charter schools don't have added costs like transportation costs, sports costs, and very often they are WAY smaller in size thus reducing grounds and building maintenance costs.

Do you have ANY clue how much it costs a public school for special education transportation costs alone? ANY clue how much a new bus costs? How bout how much it costs to fill it with gas? How about how much it costs for the insurance on the bus? How about the driver's wages? How about maintenance on the bus? Got a clue how much a fucking bus TIRE costs?

How about how much it costs the public school to educate say....30 SXI (severely, multiply, impaired) students?

OMG...I really gotta stay out of this forum. I have lots more to say but it's pointless. I hate it when people bitch about how schools are funded and how they spend the money and call them "wastefull" when they have NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO clue how a public school is funded and they think of ONLY the teacher cost. It's just so stupid. Parking lots have to be fixed, grass mowed, windows cleaned, toilets scrubbed...

gotta give the students paper and something to write with....OMG yes we do, it is the LAW. Sorry, doesn't apply to private schools...those students have to bring their own shit to write on and with. ANY clue how much paper an entire school district goes through in a year? No you don't.

Enough....I think I broke my keyboard pounding this out. I know it's all over the place, but I am really hot under to coller right now. Think i'll go out in the garage and cool off.
Buggy_Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2006, 11:50 PM   #65
jamiesann
Senior Member
 
jamiesann's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods
Posts: 2,888
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws
Food prep, assistants, WILL BE teachers, education STUDENTS....they know SHIT of how a school is funded. Food Prep? you got to be kidding me.:tonka: None of those people are even in the teacher's union so what do they know?
How would I not know about the costs? My aunt runs the kitchen for the highschool and in charge of purchasing. For example a delivery was missed she had budget to go get stuff from a grocery store, had to lie when a fellow union person found her at the store because YOU ARE ONLY SUPPOSED TO HAVE FOOD DELIVERED BY THE UNION DRIVERS. Thatís wasteful. I never said that she was a teacher or in the union, it is representative of the wastefulness and bursary.

muddy paws my sis is a special ed teachers assistant (not sure of her proper job id) and will have 4-5 years in the teachers union towards her retirement by the time she is a teacher next year. Same with her husband he also has 5 years towards his retirement in the union.

My mom has been working in the school for 12 + years. She is also in teachers or education union whatever you want to call it.

My momís boss and one of her best friends and a friend of the family has a PhD in special ed is director of special ed / ei and knows all one could learn in 30 years doing her job. I have heard lots of stories I would not want to repeat on here.





Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws
Get of the wiki and do some ACTUAL research you lazy ass.

I know about people leaving early coming late from my own school experience, high and drugged out janitors (smoking weed on campus on the clock and drinking on the clock ), physically abusive teachers (I know one teacher who has fought, not just hit, but challenged students to a fight, then fought them (he was my drivers ed teacher in hs and gym teacher in middle school), he beat up my neighbor in the 80ís and TWO kids in my grade in the 3 years I was in middle school. He had problems at his old school district also) Heck my brother and cousin were in a massive fight where 2 people needed surgery because someone sucker punched my brother at prom. There was 100ís of kids UN SUPERVISED cause all the teachers except one or two were in another room watching a redwings playoff game. I could go on and on and on with cases of teachers that had it not been for unions would long be fired.

I know for a fact there is a building in Detroit where the teachers that aren't fit to teach but cant be fired, just report each day sit in a room and collect full salary, benefits, everything. Not for punishment for a week or something like that Ö.. But instead they go there until they retire!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws
Charter schools good? 15 grand per student? Your property taxes pay for better schools? WTF are you getting this? Your home property tax has nothing to do with schools. Added mills do, but not your basic tax.
The almost $15,000 was clearly stated for a public school out on the east coast of the country. I forget the school districts name but I am sure you can find it if you look on line. It was a study to see how increased spending related to higher scores better grad rates etc. Finding Ö. Little to no difference. Look at Southfield schools in Oakland County as an example.

The teachers union is like other unions for preserving its own monolithic stature not changing, not improving, not competing. NOT SPEAKING OF TEACHERS on an individual basis, but the system. I have respect for individual teachers, the system sucks ass though.

Ill have to ask my mom how big the union rule book is. Isnít it like well over 1,000 pages and even despite all that specification many things are still left to finger pointing and not done and not followed up on and not pursued. I know they are, and I may be off on the page numbers but itís a huge mess. Tell me another job where you have 1,000 pages of rules and people still canít figure who does what when and how. THATíS OUT OF CONTROL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws
First...private schools don't "outperform" every public school in Michigan. You need to do some research on that. Accountability measures for private schools are not as extensive, nor as well enforced, as they are for public schools.
Also if you reread you'll notice I didnít say private school outperform EVERY public school. I am sure my school system outperforms many private schools. Still I think they could do better if there was some motivation to do so Ö. But there is no reason. My point is many private schools are modest priced and do just fine and get non of the state tax dollars, and imagine what they could do with their trimmed costs and frugalness with the windfall of tax dollars that would come with a kid if it worked that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws
Second, those students that can go there are from a higher socioeconomic background and that makes a HUGE difference.

Third, is that most private and charter schools don't have added costs like transportation costs, sports costs, and very often they are WAY smaller in size thus reducing grounds and building maintenance costs.
Great local example Detroit schools are over crowded and under funded right? Ok well there is a guy from Ann arbor Mr. Alexander that was going to spend $200 million of his own money to try to show how slow to react, behind the times and wasteful public schools are and how great a public school COULD be. He was going to build a number of charter schools in Detroit. Now you think this would be a good thing. NOPE. Teachers union didnít want it. I wonder why? Brand spanking new schools from the ground up. And they chased him out of town. The charter school I mentioned in original post was in Mexican town which is as poor as any area in Detroit. Size and costs are relative to the student population only need so many acres and so many lockers per x amount of students.


Not attacking anyone single teacher. Most are good, I have atleast two teachers that made major difference in my life, but lots of crappy ones that should not be teaching still are.

Oh yeah and I didn know about the paper and the costs in fact my mom sis and someone else on this boards wife were talking about school supplies and that very fact that its required by the school to provide them.

Tell me how to be more informed please I did attend school for 7 hours a day for 12 years I saw what goes on. I hear what goes on now. Where would you recommend I look to be more informed muddypaws, no sarcasism I want to be informed on the subject
jamiesann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2006, 11:56 PM   #66
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,509
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

MuddyPaws . . just because your a teacher doesn't mean you know anything about spending and others things that actually occur in a school/school distrit. You should leave this to an experta like Mr. Jamiesann who isn't a teacher and doesn't work for a school district but his family does so that means more then your experiance . . duh :tonka:

O and Black dude for Governor!!
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2006, 12:07 AM   #67
jamiesann
Senior Member
 
jamiesann's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods
Posts: 2,888
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

heres a brain tease for you cumjeeper tell me how the unions are cost effecient to pay people to not teach and keep around poor performing teachers and i will say your right?

I dont need to know how much it costs for x school cost like the bus. I could find out though, the teachers union is so powerful the crappy people dont get fired and the good ones dont get raises. It sucks.

How can you argue with that.

oHHH WAIT you went to private school you silverspooned cake eater !

Like you are such an expert. What was wrong with ecorse schools that (i am assuming your dad as a boiler operator was in the union ?) was not good enough for your dad to send his kids to a union public school. Thats not very union friendly! He should be ashamed of himself, how could he look his union brothers in the eye at work ! Hmmm thats strange. I dont understand why ecorse schools were not as good as many other schools that get the same $ per student, was it maybe there was no competition for those state dollars and it was taken for granted and run poorly?
jamiesann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2006, 12:39 AM   #68
Buggy_Tim
(513) 891-8372
 
Buggy_Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Sault Sainte Marie
Posts: 11,994
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
heres a brain tease for you cumjeeper tell me how the unions are cost effecient to pay people to not teach and keep around poor performing teachers and i will say your right?
To damn the whole system because fo a few cases like that is just stupid. And I could come up with just as many bad things about charter and private schools. Shit happens everywhere.

And OMG...was CMU just agreeing with me?!

Quote:
I know about people leaving early coming late from my own school experience, high and drugged out janitors (smoking weed on campus on the clock and drinking on the clock )
Yea, that happens at every public school.

Quote:
The almost $15,000 was clearly stated for a public school out on the east coast of the country.
WTF does that have to do with Michigan then? This whole thing started over who should run the state....of MICHIGAN. I don't give a shit what they spend out there...all I know is that they aren't spending that here.

Quote:
Tell me how to be more informed please I did attend school for 7 hours a day for 12 years I saw what goes on.
That has got to be THE most stupid post I have ever seen on this site. I went to school too. But YOU must have went to a special school where they taught Public School Finance as an elective.

You are so mis-informed...the public school teacher union at this time is the weakest union in the state right now. Funding has been cut so bad by Grand-bitch that there is no room for the administration to give...every contract it coming up with no increase, no steps, decrease in insurance and then they still cut jobs. We lost 3 programs and 28 employees at the end of last year after we signed the new contract that gave us no increase and reduced our insurance.

School districts are being forced to hire the lowest bidder as far as teachers go...not the best one for the job. Let's say 2 people apply for a math teacher position in Niles Michigan.

One has a master's degree, 10 years of experience, got teacher of the year 3 times, and is close to getting the Phd.

The other is right out of college.

The school won't even LOOK at the app for the master's teacher....they hire the cheap one.

The same goes for Charter schools, except they don't even have a weak union...they take the cheapest of the cheap because to them, it's a business.
Buggy_Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2006, 08:34 AM   #69
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,509
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiesann

Like you are such an expert. What was wrong with ecorse schools that (i am assuming your dad as a boiler operator was in the union ?) was not good enough for your dad to send his kids to a union public school. Thats not very union friendly! He should be ashamed of himself, how could he look his union brothers in the eye at work ! Hmmm thats strange. I dont understand why ecorse schools were not as good as many other schools that get the same $ per student, was it maybe there was no competition for those state dollars and it was taken for granted and run poorly?

It had nothing to do with the schools it was the little animals that went to school there which leads me back to my point of no matter how good a school is, there must be good parenting for the student to succeed.

And can we please keep this thread on point . . . Black dude for governor
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2006, 10:49 AM   #70
Buggy_Tim
(513) 891-8372
 
Buggy_Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Sault Sainte Marie
Posts: 11,994
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmujeeper
It had nothing to do with the schools it was the little animals that went to school there which leads me back to my point of no matter how good a school is, there must be good parenting for the student to succeed.
Wow....just wow...that it the most intelligent post you have made.
Buggy_Tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2006, 01:22 PM   #71
h8pvmnt
Swamp Stomper
 
h8pvmnt's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: warren,mi.
Posts: 981
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I'm voting for Devos.
h8pvmnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21st, 2006, 11:09 AM   #72
reddeviltj
Senior Member
 
reddeviltj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-09-06
Location: Casco Twp., St. Clair County, MI
Posts: 1,111
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to reddeviltj
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddinguy
Duno a whole lot about either, but i say granholm has Mi all fucked up.. so give a devos a shot.. i dont care either way im gona find the negative side and bitch about it..
It was that way when she got it. That's just the way government is - it's just screwed up and the next guy doesn't stick around long enough to fix it and no one seems to know how.

I don't like where DeVos came from. I think there's some old stuff back in his past that I didn't like back then in them Amway days.
reddeviltj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2006, 08:37 PM   #73
scottie
American Leyland??
 
scottie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: not in Georgia
Posts: 8,517
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to scottie
Default

actually Jennifer has done a pretty good job with what she had to start with.


Things don't Magically change because the person changes, Engler was an Idiot, Granholm at least is doing some things right. Devos is jsut kind of like the rich guy who just wants to be a governor, not because he is well suited for the job. but just because he wants to try it
scottie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2006, 08:50 PM   #74
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,607
iTrader: (36)
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie
actually Jennifer has done a pretty good job with what she had to start with.


Things don't Magically change because the person changes, Engler was an Idiot, Granholm at least is doing some things right. Devos is jsut kind of like the rich guy who just wants to be a governor, not because he is well suited for the job. but just because he wants to try it

One thing I'm hoping for is that he wont get all altruistic and try to "save" the state forests from the ORV user groups.

Granholm hates us.
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2006, 10:51 PM   #75
drummond
MTU 4x4
 
drummond's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 1,406
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR
One thing I'm hoping for is that he wont get all altruistic and try to "save" the state forests from the ORV user groups.

Granholm hates us.

that is already happening with GRANHOLMS forest certification plan. that is the most evil green funded plan out there, against ORV's, in all sizes. Get involved, and you would find out the ANYONE else would be better than granholms ORV plan
drummond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16th, 2006, 02:52 AM   #76
BlaineWasHere
GVSU Jeeper
 
BlaineWasHere's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-05-06
Location: G-Rap
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to BlaineWasHere
Default

Are those my only options? OH SHIT!
BlaineWasHere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2006, 10:25 PM   #77
WhiteYJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 01-02-06
Location: Muskegon, Mi
Posts: 125
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

All Crap flinging aside,

Can anyone tell me what granholm has done right? What improvements she has made? I care a lot about our sport, but I care a heck of a lot more about the ability for the small businesses that my various family members have to function, and for the economy to grow. IF the trade off is less trails I will sadly make it.

I dont like DeVos, I think he is a prick. However he is able to make businesses work, and if he is able to take his planning ability and adapt it to a state level, or at least bring in people who can do this, then I think it is worth voting for him.

However if there is solid data that shows that Good of J G just needs more time to make the difference she claims she can make then I would be willing to give her the chance.

I guess my point is does anyone have anything besides personal opinions, conjectures, and political propoganda that people looking for information can learn from?
WhiteYJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2006, 10:27 PM   #78
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,579
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drummond
that is already happening with GRANHOLMS forest certification plan. that is the most evil green funded plan out there, against ORV's, in all sizes. Get involved, and you would find out the ANYONE else would be better than granholms ORV plan
BTW I think Granholm only wishes that she came up with forest certification. It's happening everywhere.
brewmenn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2006, 07:32 PM   #79
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,175
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default Extremist view . . .

I'd rather see Granholm.
ONLY because Dick might actually bring more jobs to Michigan.

I'd rather see FEWER jobs in Michigan.

Maybe then we could get our population back down to what I call an 'acceptable' level.

Right now there are just TOO DAMN MANY PEOPLE in the state.
All my favorite trails are F---ing DRIVEWAYS for new houses now.
Hell, even the dang U.P. is filling up!

I'd rather have the trails back and watch the A--holes move away.
I don't care where they go, as long as they GO!

(As long as I can keep my job, right)
End of mini rant.

Last edited by Trail_Fanatic; September 21st, 2006 at 08:57 PM.
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2006, 12:34 PM   #80
motrctyman
Just The Spouse's spouse
 
motrctyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-12-05
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,881
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

3rd party candidate = Greg Creswell.
I sincerely think he is better candidate than the other two.
http://www.gregcreswell.org/
motrctyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:22 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.63246 seconds with 81 queries