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Old July 3rd, 2010, 09:02 AM   #1
XXXJ
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Post Declaration of Independence

I invite you to read it, even if half-heartedly. It takes less than five minutes.

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When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.


He has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.


He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.


He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large for their exercise; the state remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.


He has endeavored to prevent the population of these states; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of lands.


He has obstructed the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers.


He has made judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.


He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, standing armies without the consent of our legislature.


He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to civil power.


He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his assent to their acts of pretended legislation:


For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment for any murders which they should commit on the inhabitants of these states:

For cutting off our trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing taxes on us without our consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of trial by jury:

For transporting us beyond seas to be tried for pretended offenses:

For abolishing the free system of English laws in a neighboring province, establishing therein an arbitrary government, and enlarging its boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule in these colonies:

For taking away our charters, abolishing our most valuable laws, and altering fundamentally the forms of our governments:
For suspending our own legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated government here, by declaring us out of his protection and waging war against us.


He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burned our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.


He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the head of a civilized nation.


He has constrained our fellow citizens taken captive on the high seas to bear arms against their country, to become the executioners of their friends and brethren, or to fall themselves by their hands.


He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of warfare, is undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these oppressions we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms: our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have we been wanting in attention to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends.

We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare, that these united colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 09:31 AM   #2
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Thank I have not read that since High School
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 12:52 PM   #3
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 01:16 PM   #4
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Is it just me, or does this sound a bit like the grievances people have with our government today?
Like we have come full circle?
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 03:36 PM   #5
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"That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

probably the best part out of the whole document but yet one we as a whole don't enforce.
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 07:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXJ View Post
Is it just me, or does this sound a bit like the grievances people have with our government today?
Like we have come full circle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak450r View Post

probably the best part out of the whole document but yet one we as a whole don't enforce.
I would say that this line is the most important these days:

Quote:
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes;

The Declaration of Independence is an incredible document. It has been a long time since I have read the whole thing as well.

Because of what the 2 of you are implying, I feel the need to say the following.

There is NOTHING the present administration has done, or is doing that would qualify an insurrection on the level taken with the writing of this document.
There is nothing the previous administration did either that would cause me to feel the need to overthrow the government, and it is no secret how I felt about actions taken then.

We are not being taxed without representation.
Our legislative houses are not being dissolved.
Our court system is not being replaced with an oppressive system.
Our elected leaders at the state and local levels are not being stripped of their power.
here is no standing army in our presence, without legislative approval, holding us under martial law.

I could go on, but I think this makes my point.

Today, we have a vocal opposition to the sitting President. An opposition that owes a large part of it's voice to the ability to communicate in modern ways. This does not mean that a revolution is upon us.
The sitting administration is there because just over half of the voting population elected him in free and open election. He can be voted out in just over 2 years.
All of our Representatives and Senators are also up for re-election at specified times. They can be voted out.
None of this has been taken away. It is still working as the founding fathers envisioned.

I find it amusing and frightening at the same time when people would even hint at the overthrow of the government because something happened they did not like or did not agree with.

Did you also take your ball and go home when others would not comply with your wishes on the ball field as a kid?
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 07:28 PM   #7
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^ Voice of reason.

I was just thinking that we don't have it nearly as bad as previous generations. Our founding fathers, people of the Civil War, people of WWI, the Great Depression, and WWII. Sure, the current political landscape is total crap right now but we will have the opportunity to change that in upcoming elections.

Last edited by Nuggets; July 3rd, 2010 at 07:31 PM.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 04:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
I would say that this line is the most important these days:




The Declaration of Independence is an incredible document. It has been a long time since I have read the whole thing as well.

Because of what the 2 of you are implying, I feel the need to say the following.

There is NOTHING the present administration has done, or is doing that would qualify an insurrection on the level taken with the writing of this document.
There is nothing the previous administration did either that would cause me to feel the need to overthrow the government, and it is no secret how I felt about actions taken then.

We are not being taxed without representation.
Our legislative houses are not being dissolved.
Our court system is not being replaced with an oppressive system.
Our elected leaders at the state and local levels are not being stripped of their power.
here is no standing army in our presence, without legislative approval, holding us under martial law.

I could go on, but I think this makes my point.

Today, we have a vocal opposition to the sitting President. An opposition that owes a large part of it's voice to the ability to communicate in modern ways. This does not mean that a revolution is upon us.
The sitting administration is there because just over half of the voting population elected him in free and open election. He can be voted out in just over 2 years.
All of our Representatives and Senators are also up for re-election at specified times. They can be voted out.
None of this has been taken away. It is still working as the founding fathers envisioned.

I find it amusing and frightening at the same time when people would even hint at the overthrow of the government because something happened they did not like or did not agree with.

Did you also take your ball and go home when others would not comply with your wishes on the ball field as a kid?
OMG... There is a reasonable person that frequents this forum....


And I would like to add that if the Big O did something that was way too far from the norm that congress can remove him without having to wait until the next election.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 07:59 PM   #9
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Well said Pete.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 08:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
I would say that this line is the most important these days:




The Declaration of Independence is an incredible document. It has been a long time since I have read the whole thing as well.

Because of what the 2 of you are implying, I feel the need to say the following.

There is NOTHING the present administration has done, or is doing that would qualify an insurrection on the level taken with the writing of this document.
There is nothing the previous administration did either that would cause me to feel the need to overthrow the government, and it is no secret how I felt about actions taken then.

We are not being taxed without representation.
Our legislative houses are not being dissolved.
Our court system is not being replaced with an oppressive system.
Our elected leaders at the state and local levels are not being stripped of their power.
here is no standing army in our presence, without legislative approval, holding us under martial law.

I could go on, but I think this makes my point.

Today, we have a vocal opposition to the sitting President. An opposition that owes a large part of it's voice to the ability to communicate in modern ways. This does not mean that a revolution is upon us.
The sitting administration is there because just over half of the voting population elected him in free and open election. He can be voted out in just over 2 years.
All of our Representatives and Senators are also up for re-election at specified times. They can be voted out.
None of this has been taken away. It is still working as the founding fathers envisioned.

I find it amusing and frightening at the same time when people would even hint at the overthrow of the government because something happened they did not like or did not agree with.

Did you also take your ball and go home when others would not comply with your wishes on the ball field as a kid?
Your points are well put, but one point I would like to address about the courts.... with time there will be more liberal judges in place to contiue what they have been doing and that is making up laws as they go and not following the guidelines set before them and enforce the laws in place.
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Old July 9th, 2010, 07:44 AM   #11
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Like helping fascism along by calling corporations people?
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Old July 9th, 2010, 09:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Your points are well put, but one point I would like to address about the courts.... with time there will be more liberal judges in place to contiue what they have been doing and that is making up laws as they go and not following the guidelines set before them and enforce the laws in place.
The judges are either voted on by the people, or appointed by elected officials. We have the power to over both.
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Old July 9th, 2010, 03:53 PM   #13
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Dear President Calderon (& Mexican Senate),

I’m planning to move my family (my wife is currently pregnant) and extended family into Mexico, and I would like to ask you to assist me. We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. Please note that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. All Mexican government forms need to also be printed in English.
4. I want my children to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bilingual) teachers.
5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my kids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.
7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver’s license so I can get easy access to government services.
9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico, but I don’t plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won’t make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers do not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put U.S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
13. Please tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say a critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.

Thank you, I am sure this can be accomplished easily as America has been doing this for many years!

U.S. citizen and taxpayer
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Old July 9th, 2010, 08:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Your points are well put, but one point I would like to address about the courts.... with time there will be more CONSERVATIVE judges in place to contiue what they have been doing and that is making up laws as they go and not following the guidelines set before them and enforce the laws in place.
Gave it the other side since once again you seem to forget that your are not the only views present in this country.

Abuse is possible no matter who is in the oval office and who holds the legislative and judicial majority.

For the most part I firmly believe that things have gone pretty well over the last couple of hundred years. And they will continue to go well in the future.

Change is inevitable, whether you like it or not. Some change you will agree with, some you will not. It is the nature of a free, democratic society.

Freedom from and freedom of.
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Old July 9th, 2010, 08:15 PM   #15
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I am saying that more liberal judges sitting on the bench will mean that sooner or later more of our freedoms will be removed
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Old July 9th, 2010, 08:22 PM   #16
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And I say that the conservative judges are just as likely to do that.

The Patriot act was a conservative idea.

Funny how those that believe in Civil Liberties are often Liberals and that they somehow would limit civil liberties.
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Old July 9th, 2010, 08:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
Gave it the other side since once again you seem to forget that your are not the only views present in this country.

Abuse is possible no matter who is in the oval office and who holds the legislative and judicial majority.

For the most part I firmly believe that things have gone pretty well over the last couple of hundred years. And they will continue to go well in the future.

Change is inevitable, whether you like it or not. Some change you will agree with, some you will not. It is the nature of a free, democratic society.

Freedom from and freedom of.

living with blinders on must be nice...man I wish I was in your shoes
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Old July 9th, 2010, 08:35 PM   #18
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And I say that the conservative judges are just as likely to do that.

The Patriot act was a conservative idea.

Funny how those that believe in Civil Liberties are often Liberals and that they somehow would limit civil liberties.
And funny thing obama could have overturned it and did not, maybe because it is a good thing.
as far as the last 2oo years.... our founding fathers would roll over in thier grave if they knew how liberalism is trampling on the constitution that they wrote and yet some of the very liberals are inturpeting(sp) the constitution to benifit liberalism and not the conservative ideals that it was meant to protect.
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Old July 9th, 2010, 08:42 PM   #19
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And funny thing obama could have overturned it and did not, maybe because it is a good thing.
as far as the last 2oo years.... our founding fathers would roll over in thier grave if they knew how liberalism is trampling on the constitution that they wrote and yet some of the very liberals are inturpeting(sp) the constitution to benifit liberalism and not the conservative ideals that it was meant to protect.


I just laughed out loud.

You are still convinced that the founding fathers were all about your conservative views.
The very fact that they established a republic with a democratic form of government at that time of history was the act of true progressives.
If they were so conservative they would have been much more specific and left much less to interpretation.

Just an FYI, much of the Patriot act has been stripped as unconstitutional. I do not agree with keeping any of it. But then not everything the President does gets my approval. Much like not everything the previous President did met with my disapproval. But then again, I am moderate like that.

Last edited by PeteC; July 9th, 2010 at 08:46 PM.
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Old July 9th, 2010, 08:44 PM   #20
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living with blinders on must be nice...man I wish I was in your shoes
Living with biased blinders on must be awful, I am glad I am not in your shoes.
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