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Old July 4th, 2010, 11:29 AM   #21
fabguy01
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That would involve throwing out the Constitution. mmmmm interesting.
Or maybee just an amendment or two
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Old July 4th, 2010, 01:08 PM   #22
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I agree with this completely, with one exception.

Pointing out "the liberal crowd" as the problem is not wholly accurate. There is plenty of evidence of the conservatives among us kowtowing to industry to eliminate reasonable regulation.

This problem goes on year after year and administration after administration.

I find it funny how one group can support something when it is introduced by someone they agree with, yet oppose it when it is brought up by the "other guys". This is what has to stop before we can make reasonable progress.
According to a conservative the liberal crowd is the problem. Being liberal to a point is fine, but far left wing liberalism is not. As a society we have rules and morales and not everybody can get their way. As a society we also need tothink of the younger generation and what impressions we leave with them to grow upon.
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Old July 4th, 2010, 01:53 PM   #23
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Well, having done a bit of web research I would say that it's pretty close.

Since I'm such a moron, why don't you share some of your profound wisdom with me and educate me the facts?

Yep, typical liberal ploy- I don't have to prove I'm right; YOU have to prove I'm wrong.

And still no disclosure of the source.
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Old July 5th, 2010, 03:47 PM   #24
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According to a conservative the liberal crowd is the problem. Being liberal to a point is fine, but far left wing liberalism is not. As a society we have rules and morales and not everybody can get their way. As a society we also need tothink of the younger generation and what impressions we leave with them to grow upon.

Yep, that must right. Anyone that is not a conservative has no morals, does not believe in rules and does not give a crap about any future generation.

Wow, you really believe that crap?
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Old July 5th, 2010, 07:20 PM   #25
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I agree with this completely, with one exception.

Pointing out "the liberal crowd" as the problem is not wholly accurate. There is plenty of evidence of the conservatives among us kowtowing to industry to eliminate reasonable regulation.

This problem goes on year after year and administration after administration.

I find it funny how one group can support something when it is introduced by someone they agree with, yet oppose it when it is brought up by the "other guys". This is what has to stop before we can make reasonable progress.
Good point Pete - there are examples of both liberals and conservatives implementing regulations or controls that benefit favored industries.

Regardless of beliefs, regulation needs to be outcome based - i.e. determine what outcome or behavior needs to be controlled, and then craft the regulation to deliver the desired outcome - in a way that minimizes the impact on business or consumers.
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Old July 5th, 2010, 08:21 PM   #26
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Yep, that must right. Anyone that is not a conservative has no morals, does not believe in rules and does not give a crap about any future generation.

Wow, you really believe that crap?
That is not what i meant. I 'm sure you and other liberals have morals also, but the way the liberals in office are running things it seems that they do not care about the debt( trillions) that they are placing on our future generations, the increased spending(tax $) on funding abortions not only in this country but abroad, embryonic stem cell research funded by tax dollars.
So to answer your question, this is what the liberals in office are doing now so I would have to say that you are correct that morals and concern about future generations are very low on the priority list of things to accomplish and If you believe for what they stand for then maybe your concern for our future generations are........ I believe I have said enough.
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Old July 5th, 2010, 11:27 PM   #27
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If someone could tell me something the government has ever run correctly, I would be interested to hear the answer.

And no, saying that the government has given loans for college, housing, big business etc., as successful is grossly mistaken. Even if you hint at public transit or USPS as a means of profit, you must have never actually looked at the books. I cannot find one thing the government has run correctly. Not even NASA is a viable pick in that they are highly over funded and cannot seem to continue to show progress. (Much of their prosperity due to the fact that in the 60's many came directly from the private sector to create NASA in its heyday.)

Social security = broke
USPS= broke
Fannie/Freddie= bankrupt

The next bubble to collapse is commercial real estate and then more than likely the student loans market. All created out of government intervention/ unnecessary regulations.
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Old July 5th, 2010, 11:50 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
Good point Pete - there are examples of both liberals and conservatives implementing regulations or controls that benefit favored industries.

Regardless of beliefs, regulation needs to be outcome based - i.e. determine what outcome or behavior needs to be controlled, and then craft the regulation to deliver the desired outcome - in a way that minimizes the impact on business or consumers.
We are still waiting to find out where to send our Campaign Contribution.

Seriously, You need to run for something.
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Old July 9th, 2010, 09:34 PM   #29
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That is not what i meant. I 'm sure you and other liberals have morals also, but the way the liberals in office are running things it seems that they do not care about the debt( trillions) that they are placing on our future generations, the increased spending(tax $) on funding abortions not only in this country but abroad, embryonic stem cell research funded by tax dollars.
So to answer your question, this is what the liberals in office are doing now so I would have to say that you are correct that morals and concern about future generations are very low on the priority list of things to accomplish and If you believe for what they stand for then maybe your concern for our future generations are........ I believe I have said enough.

Wow, you really do not understand sarcasm, do you.

Debt? Trillions spent on 2 wars, one that was not part of the 9/11 response.
Tax breaks for the upper few percent, while continuing services and not replacing income.

In other words, once again, conservatives/ tend to spend and charge it to the future generations while liberals/ tend tax and spend.

You are really very jaded when it comes to your views of those that do not walk in lock step with your chosen way of life. You seem like you will never really understand that this nation and world is made up of many different views. In civilized nations, like the US, these different views can co-exist.

Extra spending on abortions? Have you not paid attention? That was one of the compromises (no federally funded abortions) reached on the health care bill. Please do not assume that the rest of the world agrees with the no abortion for any reason stance. Personally I believe in the woman's choice to have, or not have an abortion.

Stem cell research? We are soooooo behind the rest of the world because of this religiously pushed ban on a viable research technique. THey are not killing fetuses to harvest these cells.
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Old July 9th, 2010, 09:38 PM   #30
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Good point Pete - there are examples of both liberals and conservatives implementing regulations or controls that benefit favored industries.

Regardless of beliefs, regulation needs to be outcome based - i.e. determine what outcome or behavior needs to be controlled, and then craft the regulation to deliver the desired outcome - in a way that minimizes the impact on business or consumers.

As with many things, you and I agree on what the end result should be. We just sometimes differ on the route to get there.
Same thing with many of the politicians we all seem to spend time bashing these days.

The reason you and I get along so well is because we are able to have a civilized and informed discussion over a wide variety of issues. Unlike many who will never believe in the right of others to even have a differing opinion.
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Old July 9th, 2010, 09:58 PM   #31
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As with many things, you and I agree on what the end result should be. We just sometimes differ on the route to get there.
Same thing with many of the politicians we all seem to spend time bashing these days.

The reason you and I get along so well is because we are able to have a civilized and informed discussion over a wide variety of issues. Unlike many who will never believe in the right of others to even have a differing opinion.
This type of conversational exchange is what really frightens those inside the beltway. If we could all learn to converse this well and stop making decisions solely on whether or not someone has an "R" or a "D" next to their name then we truly could rescue our sinking ship from the corrupt bureaucrats who are hell bent on lining their own pockets at the expense of the tax-paying citizens.

(and if liberals would shut the hell up long enough to listen to us they would find out how wrong they really are )
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Old July 9th, 2010, 10:16 PM   #32
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There's nothing I'm afraid of like scared people
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Old July 11th, 2010, 09:37 PM   #33
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Wow, you really do not understand sarcasm, do you.

Debt? Trillions spent on 2 wars, one that was not part of the 9/11 response.
Tax breaks for the upper few percent, while continuing services and not replacing income.

In other words, once again, conservatives/ tend to spend and charge it to the future generations while liberals/ tend tax and spend.

You are really very jaded when it comes to your views of those that do not walk in lock step with your chosen way of life. You seem like you will never really understand that this nation and world is made up of many different views. In civilized nations, like the US, these different views can co-exist.

Extra spending on abortions? Have you not paid attention? That was one of the compromises (no federally funded abortions) reached on the health care bill. Please do not assume that the rest of the world agrees with the no abortion for any reason stance. Personally I believe in the woman's choice to have, or not have an abortion.

Stem cell research? We are soooooo behind the rest of the world because of this religiously pushed ban on a viable research technique. THey are not killing fetuses to harvest these cells.
The debt I talk about is the money obama spent on what to creat jobs that never came. The more money the liberals throw at a bad economy will not improve the economy, tax breaks for companies to hire and tax breaks for the people will stimulate the economy not throwing trillion$$$ at a problem. I would think obama had to pay off the people that got him elected so ... throw them some cash, tax payer dollars.
Tax breaks for the rich? Do you know that the most wealthy in this country pay the most in tax, the poor pay nothing and wonder why they don't get anything in tax returns, but obama will fix that through his new health care plan to spread the wealth.
A conservative can never out spead a democrat and obama has proved that with his spending plans. He has spent more in his first year than any other president in history.
Abortion is federally funded, it is a part of the health care already and to exclude it they would actually have to say that there is no tax payer dollars to be used for abortion. If it was excluded planned parenthood would have been screaming so load ever media out let in America would have made it head line news for weeks on end to make sure that everybody in this country would know about it. I heard nothing from them so that tells me that we as tax payers will be paying to abort babies, not only here but in other countries also. Obama give millions of dollars a year to mexico to help fund abortions in that country too. Abortion is MURDER any way you look at it.
As far as adult stem cell reseach that works, but embrotic stem cell does not and yet tax payers will be now paying for that to. If embryotic stem cell was such a good thing then why don't the rich investors, invest in this type of research? Because they know that it does not work. Adult stem cells from your own body can cure you more that embyrotic stem cells would, but you don't hear that in the news do you?
Life begins at conception.
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Old July 11th, 2010, 09:49 PM   #34
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Well, having done a bit of web research I would say that it's pretty close.

Since I'm such a moron, why don't you share some of your profound wisdom with me and educate me the facts?
Doing your research at moveon.org?
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Old July 27th, 2010, 04:59 PM   #35
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I think that the real solution is quite simple, remove all of the senetors, congressmen, and represenitives and start a TRUE democracy where the people actually vote on the bills to be passed or not ,say once a month.
While your at it you should remove the "executive order" abillities of the president
Hit the nail on the proverbial head!

Term limits.

Popular vote for all bills.

No riders on any bill.

All bills in plain language.
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Old July 27th, 2010, 05:02 PM   #36
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Yep, typical liberal ploy- I don't have to prove I'm right; YOU have to prove I'm wrong.

And still no disclosure of the source.
Tea Party Patriots wasn't enough?
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Old July 27th, 2010, 05:04 PM   #37
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[QUOTE=aber61;2282657]That is not what i meant. I 'm sure you and other liberals have morals also, but the way the liberals in office are running things it seems that they do not care about the debt( trillions) that they are placing on our future generationsQUOTE]

Apparently he doesn't know how much Reagan, Bush Sr. or Bush Jr. inflated the debt.
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Old July 27th, 2010, 05:07 PM   #38
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If someone could tell me something the government has ever run correctly, I would be interested to hear the answer.

And no, saying that the government has given loans for college, housing, big business etc., as successful is grossly mistaken. Even if you hint at public transit or USPS as a means of profit, you must have never actually looked at the books. I cannot find one thing the government has run correctly. Not even NASA is a viable pick in that they are highly over funded and cannot seem to continue to show progress. (Much of their prosperity due to the fact that in the 60's many came directly from the private sector to create NASA in its heyday.)

Social security = broke
USPS= broke
Fannie/Freddie= bankrupt

The next bubble to collapse is commercial real estate and then more than likely the student loans market. All created out of government intervention/ unnecessary regulations.
USPS is not supposed to generate a profit. It is not a for-profit business. Well, it wasn't before anyway.

Social security - check your history on how Reagan ransacked it.

Hmmm... Amtrak seems to run pretty darn well.

U.S. military? I think they are run pretty well.

FBI

Secret Service
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Old July 27th, 2010, 05:08 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Kolin_Kapitalist View Post
If someone could tell me something the government has ever run correctly, I would be interested to hear the answer.

And no, saying that the government has given loans for college, housing, big business etc., as successful is grossly mistaken. Even if you hint at public transit or USPS as a means of profit, you must have never actually looked at the books. I cannot find one thing the government has run correctly. Not even NASA is a viable pick in that they are highly over funded and cannot seem to continue to show progress. (Much of their prosperity due to the fact that in the 60's many came directly from the private sector to create NASA in its heyday.)

Social security = broke
USPS= broke
Fannie/Freddie= bankrupt

The next bubble to collapse is commercial real estate and then more than likely the student loans market. All created out of government intervention/ unnecessary regulations.
By the way, I'm seeing recovery at its roots. Consumer lending is growing fast right now. Refi's and purchases are on the rise. We're booming here. This is where it all begins.
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Old July 27th, 2010, 05:11 PM   #40
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The debt I talk about is the money obama spent on what to creat jobs that never came. The more money the liberals throw at a bad economy will not improve the economy, tax breaks for companies to hire and tax breaks for the people will stimulate the economy not throwing trillion$$$ at a problem. I would think obama had to pay off the people that got him elected so ... throw them some cash, tax payer dollars.
Ummmm... GM showed a profit instead of closing their doors. Chrysler is going to recover. Citi payed back their TARP funds with interest and are HIRING.
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