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Old August 11th, 2006, 02:25 PM   #41
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[QUOTE=Haggar]Between Smash and CMU, I've never seen such stupid reponses. What's your experience with babies and troubled births?

QUOTE]

Whats your experience with non-issues? Nobody said the mother should die. (except cmu I think, and I'd say thats a unique view)
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Old August 11th, 2006, 05:20 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Haggar
You are right, I forgot about the Porsche. I was lost thinking about watching my wife stop breathing multiple times after the emergency C-section.


Porsches are cool.
So sounds like your wife survived with the help of a medical staff. That's what they are there for. So you are telling me that if it was between your wife and a new baby then basically we should just say F the baby because it would hurt to bad to loose a wife?

And yes Porsches are cool but the 996 is the coolest just incase you wanted to know.

What is your response to that guy with the real world knowledge.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 05:22 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Spouse

You know what, if I were you, I'd work on the way I present my ideas, and not be so confrontational and abrasive.

The great thinkers of the world are able to bring their ideas forward in a non-abrasive, non-confrontational way so that people would think about what they had to say, and when it made sense, adopt their ideas as their own. You call yourself a free-thinker, but these are not the thoughts of a free-thinker, they are the thoughts of a close-minded bigot. Just my .02
I guess part of being a free thinker is not having to hid my thoughts and feelings behind some PC Bullshit. Hmm... ever thought of that one old lady??
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Old August 11th, 2006, 06:28 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmujeeper
So sounds like your wife survived with the help of a medical staff. That's what they are there for. So you are telling me that if it was between your wife and a new baby then basically we should just say F the baby because it would hurt to bad to loose a wife?

And yes Porsches are cool but the 996 is the coolest just incase you wanted to know.

What is your response to that guy with the real world knowledge.
What I'm saying is that, as usual, you are talking out your ass when you have NO clue. You know nothing about a subject, then are a cheerleader for one side. Pretty much CMUJeeper in a nutshell, regardless of the topic.

LOL, you think you will own a 996.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 06:37 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
What I'm saying is that, as usual, you are talking out your ass when you have NO clue. You know nothing about a subject, then are a cheerleader for one side. Pretty much CMUJeeper in a nutshell, regardless of the topic.

LOL, you think you will own a 996.
What I"m saying is that, as usual, you are talking out your ass when you have NO clue. You know nothing about a subject, then are a cheerleader for one side. Pretty much Jesus in a nutshell, regardless of the topic.


LOL, you think your honda will be fast.

And yes, I will own a 996.

So back to the question of whether you just say F the baby to save the wife? And this is very different then using abortion as a birthcontrol but it's still abortion if you kill the baby to save the mother even though we know child bearing is rough and sometimes the mother doesn't make it. I believe you save the baby if that is the only solution but the medical community does and awesome job and will do the best to save both.

Last edited by Chiefwoohaw; August 11th, 2006 at 06:47 PM.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 08:56 PM   #46
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Given the choice, I would save the mother. Again, not something you could understand. Or, have you had one of your babies die before birth?
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Old August 11th, 2006, 09:26 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
Given the choice, I would save the mother. Again, not something you could understand. Or, have you had one of your babies die before birth?
That is completly different. If the health of the baby is poor then yes, save the mother. That was not what I was saying earlier but you reguarly fail to read all of why I type. If the baby is going to be fine and the mother is haveing all the complications then save the baby.

I figured you could see the difference but I guess you failed to comprehend that.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 09:29 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmujeeper
That is completly different. If the health of the baby is poor then yes, save the mother. That was not what I was saying earlier but you reguarly fail to read all of why I type. If the baby is going to be fine and the mother is haveing all the complications then save the baby.

I figured you could see the difference but I guess you failed to comprehend that.
LOL... don't know much about this subject, do you..



If you are going to be blabbing about how strong you feel on a subject, please at least don't screw up the facts as bad as you have been.

God Damn, you Chippewa's aint to bright, are ya?

Last edited by Haggar; August 11th, 2006 at 09:31 PM.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 09:34 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
LOL... don't know much about this, do you..
Your answers are so well thought out. So you understand the difference between using abortion as a form of birth control and abortion for rape/incest. The brithcontrol abortion is what I"m against.

What you are talking about is a totally different situation in which the mother is not trying to abort a baby but haveing complications during birth. Abortion isn't even a thought so why are you bringing this into an abortion topic?

I was stating what I would feel as right in the situation YOU brought up.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 09:47 PM   #50
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What situation are you envisioning where you let the mother die and safe a healthy baby out of the deal?
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Old August 11th, 2006, 09:53 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmujeeper
Your answers are so well thought out. So you understand the difference between using abortion as a form of birth control and abortion for rape/incest. The brithcontrol abortion is what I"m against.

What you are talking about is a totally different situation in which the mother is not trying to abort a baby but haveing complications during birth. Abortion isn't even a thought so why are you bringing this into an abortion topic?

I was stating what I would feel as right in the situation YOU brought up.
Actually, I was furthering what JAS said, regarding abortion to save the life of the mother. You are talking about a scenario where you choose mother vs baby. It statistically is a non-existant scenario.


What you have to understand when it comes to the abortion as birth control, is what happens when you take it away.

My family is strong anti-abortion. The practice is abhorrant to me. But people are going to do it. Remove the option, now you have 100x more cases of coat hanger back alley abortions and baseball bats to the stomach. You'll have false claims of incest and rape (with parental backing, even) to get an abortion approved.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 09:55 PM   #52
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:dunie: Some very interesting thoughts here.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 10:06 PM   #53
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In the real world, things are not black and white like you think they are in Mt. Pleasant.

In the first two trimesters, anything that puts the mother at risk instantly puts equal or greater risk on the baby. If mom doesn't survive, baby can NOT survive. So there is no scenario at that point where NOT aborting a fetus in the extreme case of saving the mothers life makes any rational sense.

In the thrid trimeter, there are options open, and possibilities. Babies *may* survive in the NICU born as early as 24-26 weeks, although the risk is extreme, it is certainly preferable to abortion. There again, is extremely limited(can't think of any at the moment, although there are always medical oddities that occur) scenario where an emergency cesarean cannot be performed in the same time as an abortion procedure. I'm seen just how fast it can happen with things go downhill.



Its the same old thing. At your age, and especially in the fairy-tale land of life on a big college campus, you simply lack the depth of experience and understanding to see the shades of grey that make life's big decisions so difficult. And yes, the proper term is ignorace. Its not meant as a derogatory term, per se, just the way it is.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 10:07 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
Actually, I was furthering what JAS said, regarding abortion to save the life of the mother. You are talking about a scenario where you choose mother vs baby. It statistically is a non-existant scenario.


What you have to understand when it comes to the abortion as birth control, is what happens when you take it away.

My family is strong anti-abortion. The practice is abhorrant to me. But people are going to do it. Remove the option, now you have 100x more cases of coat hanger back alley abortions and baseball bats to the stomach. You'll have false claims of incest and rape (with parental backing, even) to get an abortion approved.

As I am pro-life in most cases I see your point. With out abortions how many messed up kids are there going to be because of horrible parents. If there was no options maybe it would force people actually think about what they are doing.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 10:15 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by brandonfiremedic
:dunie: Some very interesting thoughts here.
Like I said, my parents for 25 years have had anti-abortion stickers all over the cars.

I have two adopted sisters, and thru that, we know many other families with adopted kids. Its a wonderful thing.

As I mentioned, I've got a son, and cross my fingers, perhaps we have a second on the way. We lost one in the first trimester 6 months ago Patrick's birth in 10 minutes contained both the best and darkest moments of my life.


Meh... its a free country. Let him think what he wants. Its something for the older folks to laugh at.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 10:24 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
Actually, I was furthering what JAS said, regarding abortion to save the life of the mother. You are talking about a scenario where you choose mother vs baby. It statistically is a non-existant scenario.


What you have to understand when it comes to the abortion as birth control, is what happens when you take it away.

My family is strong anti-abortion. The practice is abhorrant to me. But people are going to do it. Remove the option, now you have 100x more cases of coat hanger back alley abortions and baseball bats to the stomach. You'll have false claims of incest and rape (with parental backing, even) to get an abortion approved.
Not to mention babys ending up in bathroom trash cans, dumpsters and shallow graves.

I agree with what you said.

My thoughts... in a perfect world there would be no abotrions... but that same perceft world would have no rape, insest, expectant mothers lives as risk or unwanted or untintended pregnencies. To someone whos pregnent and doesn't want to be abortion is a solution to thier problem... maybe not the ideal solution, but it does remove the immediate problem. If we want to get rid of abortion we need to do better at both helping people avoid getting pregnent and helping them figure out what to do if they do get pregnent. Otherwise it will just lead to other problems.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 10:29 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR
Here's a novel idea. Let the woman decide what she wants to do with her body, and let every opinionated man that thinks he knows what's best go phuck himself.

What if women decided men had to leave their penises at home when they went out drinking? That would be attempted control of your reproductive organ, which is what most pro-lifers are trying.
Woman do have a choice... they can keep thier legs together.

But your comment does get to the central core fo any pro-life vs. pro-choice debate... Is that baby devloping in her body still part of "her body" to do with what she wants until it's born, or is it it's own person, with the same rights as any other person as soon as it's conceived.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 10:32 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
In the real world, things are not black and white like you think they are in Mt. Pleasant.

In the first two trimesters, anything that puts the mother at risk instantly puts equal or greater risk on the baby. If mom doesn't survive, baby can NOT survive. So there is no scenario at that point where NOT aborting a fetus in the extreme case of saving the mothers life makes any rational sense.

In the thrid trimeter, there are options open, and possibilities. Babies *may* survive in the NICU born as early as 24-26 weeks, although the risk is extreme, it is certainly preferable to abortion. There again, is extremely limited(can't think of any at the moment, although there are always medical oddities that occur) scenario where an emergency cesarean cannot be performed in the same time as an abortion procedure. I'm seen just how fast it can happen with things go downhill.


And this is compleatly different then some chick that doesn't want a kid and goes and gets an abortion and those situation are what I am against. In the situations above I would go with the recomendation of the medical staff which I stated previously because I don't know everything and trust them and their judgment.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 10:33 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmujeeper
I hate all gays and hate that I can't beat them up now because of the hate crime laws. . . stupid gays!! Why do you think I like to wheel. I know all you conservatives wouldn't let any Flamers (besides BDR :tonka:and I know BDR isn't gay but his jeep might be) on the trail.
I knew of one gay wheeler. A freind of a former co-worker. A pretty cool guy actually, he knew every gay joke there is and wasn't offended by any of them.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 10:34 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
Like I said, my parents for 25 years have had anti-abortion stickers all over the cars.

I have two adopted sisters, and thru that, we know many other families with adopted kids. Its a wonderful thing.

As I mentioned, I've got a son, and cross my fingers, perhaps we have a second on the way. We lost one in the first trimester 6 months ago Patrick's birth in 10 minutes contained both the best and darkest moments of my life.


Meh... its a free country. Let him think what he wants. Its something for the older folks to laugh at.

I figured that since you went through this you could see that your loss was a tradgedy and not an abortion nor should it be thought as one. I'm sure you didn't decide what to do but did what the medical staff thought was best.

Last edited by Chiefwoohaw; August 11th, 2006 at 10:43 PM.
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