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Old June 9th, 2010, 10:24 AM   #1
AGoodBuzz
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Default Christian America Questions

Many of you keep saying that America was founded as a Christian nation, and speak quite a bit about "Christian values", and it leaves me quite confused. So in the interest of trying to see things from your viewpoint I was hoping any of you could answer a few questions:

1. Our founding documents are the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and some might add the Federalist Papers and the Antifederalist Papers. Please tell me where I would find the word "Christian" in any of them. Additionally, if you can tell me where I would find the word "God" I would sure appreciate it.

2. Insofar as "Christian values", can anyone please provide some values that are exclusively "Christian", and not shared by other religions or even atheists and humanists like myself?

3. Please tell me how belief in your God makes you a better or more moral person than people like me.

Thanks guys!

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Old June 9th, 2010, 10:29 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
Many of you keep saying that America was founded as a Christian nation, and speak quite a bit about "Christian values", and it leaves me quite confused. So in the interest of trying to see things from your viewpoint I was hoping any of you could answer a few questions:

1. Our founding documents are the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and some might add the Federalist Papers and the Antifederalist Papers. Please tell me where I would find the word "Christian" in any of them. Additionally, if you can tell me where I would find the word "God" I would sure appreciate it.

2. Insofar as "Christian values", can anyone please provide some values that are exclusively "Christian", and not shared by other religions or even atheists and humanists like myself?

3. Please tell me how belief in your God makes you a better or more moral person than people like me.

Thanks guys!


If you have to ask this question, then no answer given by anybody, will be of any concequence.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 10:42 AM   #3
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Old June 9th, 2010, 10:47 AM   #4
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you jackass!!! this country wasn't founded on Chistianity, it was founded on the FREEDOM OF RELIGION. As a Christian myself, I appreciate the right that I have to practice my religion without the government telling me what religion I have to be.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 10:51 AM   #5
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by you making this thread violates freedom of religious choice. My beliefs would fall in the "incomprehensible" category to most yet you won't see me asking christians to justify their beliefs to me. people are different get over it.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 10:53 AM   #6
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you jackass!!! this country wasn't founded on Chistianity, it was founded on the FREEDOM OF RELIGION. As a Christian myself, I appreciate the right that I have to practice my religion without the government telling me what religion I have to be.
Spoken like a true American. The word "G-D" never hit our money or "pledge of allegiance" until the 1950's. It is not part of the foundation of our country.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 11:57 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
Many of you keep saying that America was founded as a Christian nation, and speak quite a bit about "Christian values", and it leaves me quite confused. So in the interest of trying to see things from your viewpoint I was hoping any of you could answer a few questions:

1. Our founding documents are the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and some might add the Federalist Papers and the Antifederalist Papers. Please tell me where I would find the word "Christian" in any of them. Additionally, if you can tell me where I would find the word "God" I would sure appreciate it.

2. Insofar as "Christian values", can anyone please provide some values that are exclusively "Christian", and not shared by other religions or even atheists and humanists like myself?

3. Please tell me how belief in your God makes you a better or more moral person than people like me.

Thanks guys!

the first minute of GC's explanation should spell it out for you lol

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Old June 9th, 2010, 12:08 PM   #8
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Additionally, if you can tell me where I would find the word "God" I would sure appreciate it.
here:

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The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--
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Old June 9th, 2010, 12:20 PM   #9
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Really another religion thread?
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Old June 9th, 2010, 12:48 PM   #10
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AGB.

I agree with Ford Flair Side on this one. I would seem you already have an opion and are just trying to prove yourself right.

That being said, Our Countries founding documents may not include Many references to The Christian Church but the people that originally landed here were VERY Christian. Their Goal was to make this a nation to glorify the Christian God.

Oddly enough, intill Darwin came around most Ivy League schools were Exclusively for teaching things of the Kingdom of God. Harvard is one.

Thier Original Motto was "Veritas Christo et Ecclesiae" (Truth For Christ and the Church) ,

Thier Code of Conduct :
Let ever student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and jesus Christ which is eternal life (John 17:3) and therefore lay Chrsit at the bottom as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and Learning

The Founding fathers believed that every man was free. They believed this because they believed that God Created them that way. Not that they had to earn it, Much like Christian Teaching of Salvation. Not saying they paralleled those, but I did.

If you can find someone with the video series called "the truth Project" you'll see exactly where me and Aber are coming from. There are 7-9 Lessons and one is Government. It's a great Series and is a great way to see how Christian view the world.
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Spoken like a true American. The word "G-D" never hit our money or "pledge of allegiance" until the 1950's. It is not part of the foundation of our country.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 12:56 PM   #11
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here:
Nifty. You found the word God. Thanks. Interesting it says "Nature's God"... Where does it say "Nature's God" in the Bible?

"Creator" does not qualify because we weren't created by a god.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 01:01 PM   #12
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AGB.

I agree with Ford Flair Side on this one. I would seem you already have an opion and are just trying to prove yourself right.

That being said, Our Countries founding documents may not include Many references to The Christian Church but the people that originally landed here were VERY Christian. Their Goal was to make this a nation to glorify the Christian God.

Oddly enough, intill Darwin came around most Ivy League schools were Exclusively for teaching things of the Kingdom of God. Harvard is one.

Thier Original Motto was "Veritas Christo et Ecclesiae" (Truth For Christ and the Church) ,

Thier Code of Conduct :
Let ever student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and jesus Christ which is eternal life (John 17:3) and therefore lay Chrsit at the bottom as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and Learning

The Founding fathers believed that every man was free. They believed this because they believed that God Created them that way. Not that they had to earn it, Much like Christian Teaching of Salvation. Not saying they paralleled those, but I did.

If you can find someone with the video series called "the truth Project" you'll see exactly where me and Aber are coming from. There are 7-9 Lessons and one is Government. It's a great Series and is a great way to see how Christian view the world.
Nicely stated, but according to all historical references that I am aware of, the settlers that came here for religious reasons (not just from England) were being persecuted for not accepting their respective governments endorsed (forced) churches.

You're partly right: most of the founding fathers did NOT say god made us free. Many of them were deists or atheists, but I posted that comprehensive list quite some time ago.

Yeah, I have an opinion... Based on fact. I am questioning the opinions being trumpeted that have no basis in fact. References to Harvard have nothing to do with the founding of this country.

So my questions remain unanswered.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 01:03 PM   #13
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by you making this thread violates freedom of religious choice. My beliefs would fall in the "incomprehensible" category to most yet you won't see me asking christians to justify their beliefs to me. people are different get over it.
I'm not asking them to "justify their beliefs". Read it again. I'm asking them to show me where the facts are to support their claims that this country was founded as a Christian nation, and to name some of those "Christian values" they so proudly claim that are actually only Christian and no one elses, because if others can claim the same values, then they would just be "values" and the word "Christian" would not apply.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 01:05 PM   #14
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If you have to ask this question, then no answer given by anybody, will be of any concequence.
That's a cop out. Come on. If you are Christian, tell me how it makes you a better person than me.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 01:06 PM   #15
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this country wasn't founded on Chistianity, it was founded on the FREEDOM OF RELIGION.
I agree. Jackass.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 01:17 PM   #16
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That's a cop out. Come on. If you are Christian, tell me how it makes you a better person than me.
I think you'll find that most people with a Healthy Christian World view realize they are Absolutely NO BETTER then you or anybody else. The Difference Lies in their ability to Allow Christ to take away their sin. It requires no skill and actually takes humility to admit you can't do something and need help.

In General, Having accountability to a Higher being will keep people "Behaving well". A set of morals or Values void of a Higher being can be just as good, if not better, then a Set with said being. The problem lies in accountability. If a 7 year old's mom tells his big brother to keep him accountable for not eating too much candy while she is gone, it can work. That is, Unless the Big brother wants to eat the candy too. Then there is no accountability because the person assumed to be responsible for the rules is, in fact, not the person they said they would be.
With a Set of Values governed or even just thought to be put down by a Higher, all seeing being, there is no worry about Accountability. If that makes sense.

And the Harvard example was to show that the people that came to this country did have some kind of focus on Christianity and not the Post-Modernistic crap that we have now. Sure, they were Fleeing a Government corrupted Church, but they were still a part of that faith and many of them started the, now crumbling, main denominations of this country.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 01:17 PM   #17
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That's a cop out. Come on. If you are Christian, tell me how it makes you a better person than me.
Because I am a Christian I know that I am "Not" a better person. We are all sinners in the eyes of the Lord. If you did proper research you would know that.

I don't need to explain my Christianity, I'm confortable with it. Sounds like you are the one searching.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 01:19 PM   #18
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I'm not asking them to "justify their beliefs". Read it again. I'm asking them to show me where the facts are to support their claims that this country was founded as a Christian nation, and to name some of those "Christian values" they so proudly claim that are actually only Christian and no one elses, because if others can claim the same values, then they would just be "values" and the word "Christian" would not apply.
what is the point of this? the query is loaded. no matter what their reason or justification someone will argue it isn't true. that is why they are "personal beliefs". what is this going to accomplish besides eating up space on a server.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 01:49 PM   #19
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I think you'll find that most people with a Healthy Christian World view realize they are Absolutely NO BETTER then you or anybody else.
Exactly! This is a silly thread because no REASONABLE (read: real) Christian is the terrible, self-righteous prick the OP depicts, especially in point 3. You know why? The religion says, in pretty cut-and-dry language, not to do that! This would be like asking liberal America why they love eating fetuses garnished with a piece of the constitution. And for the sake of reference, I'm saying this as one of those super-evil non-religious mega-liberals that everyone hates so much.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 01:58 PM   #20
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Nifty. You found the word God. Thanks. Interesting it says "Nature's God"... Where does it say "Nature's God" in the Bible?

"Creator" does not qualify because we weren't created by a god.
But they would not have writen "creator" had they not believed that there was one.

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