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Old June 14th, 2010, 11:39 PM   #41
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Old June 15th, 2010, 06:54 AM   #42
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Awesome info below.


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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post


Based on the timeline I'd say much was done. The interesting thing about you guys is that your pundits: Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, etc. all ignore these facts and just scream criticisms because they know you guys won't bother to do your own independent research to verify the facts.

It's easy to post a timeline leaving these things OUT, then saying nothing was done. That's witholding evidence. But when all the facts are included your arguments have no validity.


April 20 (10 p.m.): Oil rig explosion. An April 21 ABCNews.com article reported, "An overnight explosion in the Gulf of Mexico rocked the Deepwater Horizon oil rig off the Louisiana coast, sending spectacular bursts of flame into the sky. The fires were still raging today." The U.S. Coast Guard's National Oil and Hazardous Substances Response System assigns primary responsibility for cleaning up oil spills to the spiller as the responsible party.

April 21: Deputy Secretary of Interior, Coast Guard dispatched to region. An April 22 White House statement noted that following a briefing with President Obama, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, Coast Guard Commandant Adm. Thad Allen, Department of Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, EPA Deputy Administrator Bob Perciasepe, and FEMA Administrator Craig Fugate, "Deputy Secretary of the Interior David Hayes was dispatched to the region yesterday to assist with coordination and response." The Coast Guard announced that four units were responding to the fire, with additional units en route.

•Search and rescue efforts begin for 11 missing. An initial focus of the response was the search for 11 missing crewmembers. The search was called off April 23.
•BP confirms U.S. Coast Guard was "leading the emergency response" In an April 21 press release, British Petroleum stated that it was "working closely with Transocean and the U.S. Coast Guard, which is leading the emergency response, and had been offering its help - including logistical support."
•CNN.com: "The U.S. Coast Guard launched a major search effort." An April 22 CNN.com article reported:
The U.S. Coast Guard launched a major search effort Wednesday for 11 people missing after a "catastrophic" explosion aboard an oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico engulfed the drilling platform in flames.

Another 17 people were injured -- three critically -- in the blast aboard the Deepwater Horizon, which occurred about 10 p.m. Tuesday. The rig was about 52 miles southeast of Venice, Louisiana, said Coast Guard Senior Chief Petty Officer Mike O'Berry. As of late afternoon Wednesday as many as six firefighting vessels were working to contain the massive fire caused by the explosion.

"It obviously was a catastrophic event," O'Berry said.

April 23: Coast Guard "focused on mitigating the impact of the product currently in the water." On April 23, the Coast Guard stated:

The Department of the Interior, MMS [the U.S. Minerals Management Service], and the Coast Guard continue to support the efforts of the responsible parties to secure all potential sources of pollution. Both federal agencies have technical teams in place overseeing the proposals by BP and Transocean to completely secure the well. Until that has occurred and all parties are confident the risk of additional spill is removed, a high readiness posture to respond will remain in place.

Although the oil appears to have stopped flowing from the well head, Coast Guard, BP, Transocean, and MMS remain focused on mitigating the impact of the product currently in the water and preparing for a worst-case scenario in the event the seal does not hold. Visual feed from deployed remotely operated vehicles with sonar capability is continually monitored in an effort to look for any crude oil which still has the potential to emanate from the subsurface well.

"From what we have observed yesterday and through the night, we are not seeing any signs of release of crude in the subsurface area. However we remain in a 'ready to respond' mode and are working in a collaborative effort with BP, the responsible party, to prepare for a worst-case scenario," Landry stated early Friday morning.

April 25: Response team implements plan to contain oil spilling from source, weather delays cleanup.

•Storms delay response efforts. An April 25 Associated Press article reported, "Stormy weather delayed weekend efforts to mop up leaking oil from a damaged well after the explosion and sinking of a massive rig off Louisiana's Gulf Coast that left 11 workers missing and presumed dead." AP further reported:
The bad weather began rolling in Friday as strong winds, clouds and rain interrupted efforts to contain the spill. Coast Guard Petty Officer John Edwards said he was uncertain when weather conditions would improve enough for cleanup to resume. So far, he said, crews have retrieved about 1,052 barrels of oily water.

•Oil recovery and cleanup were to resume after adverse weather passed. On April 25, the unified command team responding to the spill stated:
The unified command is implementing intervention efforts in an attempt to contain the source of oil emanating from the wellhead at the Deepwater Horizon incident site Sunday.

The unified command has approved a plan that utilizes submersible remote operated vehicles in an effort to activate the blowout preventer on the sea floor and to stop the flow of oil that has been estimated at leaking up to 1,000 barrels/42,000 gallons a day.

Also, BP is mobilizing the DD3, a drilling rig that is expected to arrive Monday to prepare for relief well-drilling operations.

Additionally, the oil recovery and clean-up operations are expected to resume once adverse weather has passed. These efforts are part of the federally approved oil spill contingency plan that is in place to respond to environmental incidents.

April 26: Response crews "to resume skimming operations." On April 26, the response team stated, "Sunday, an aircrew from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service sighted five small whales during an over flight in the vicinity of the oil spill, which currently measures 48 miles by 39 miles at its widest points with varying levels of sheening, and is located 30 miles off the coast of Venice, La." The command team further stated, "Following adverse weather that went through the area, response crews are anticipated to resume skimming operations today," including 1,000 personnel, 10 offshore vessels, 7 skimming boats and more than 14,000 gallons of dispersant. At that point 48,384 gallons of oily water had been collected.

April 28: Federal officials realize spill was far more severe than BP led them to believe. An April 28 New York Times article reported, "Government officials said late Wednesday night that oil might be leaking from a well in the Gulf of Mexico at a rate five times that suggested by initial estimates." The Times further reported:

In a hastily called news conference, Rear Adm. Mary E. Landry of the Coast Guard said a scientist from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration had concluded that oil is leaking at the rate of 5,000 barrels a day, not 1,000 as had been estimated. While emphasizing that the estimates are rough given that the leak is at 5,000 feet below the surface, Admiral Landry said the new estimate came from observations made in flights over the slick, studying the trajectory of the spill and other variables.

An April 30 Associated Press article reported, "For days, as an oil spill spread in the Gulf of Mexico, BP assured the government the plume was manageable, not catastrophic. Federal authorities were content to let the company handle the mess while keeping an eye on the operation." The article continued:

But then government scientists realized the leak was five times larger than they had been led to believe, and days of lulling statistics and reassuring words gave way Thursday to an all-hands-on-deck emergency response. Now questions are sure to be raised about a self-policing system that trusted a commercial operator to take care of its own mishap even as it grew into a menace imperiling Gulf Coast nature and livelihoods from Florida to Texas.

April 29: Napolitano declares spill "of national significance"; BP insists its "plan can handle this spill." On April 29, BP official Doug Suttles appeared on ABC's Good Morning America and stated, "At this point, I believe our plan can handle this spill, and that's what we're doing." That day, Napolitano declared the spill "of national significance," explaining that "we can now draw down assets from across the country, other coastal areas, by way of example; that we will have a centralized communications because the spill is now crossing different regions."

•EPA preparing for oil to hit shore. Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Lisa Jackson commented at an April 29 press briefing: "[A]s the oil does hit the shoreline, EPA will provide support to assess the impacts on the coastal shoreline and play a key role in implementing the cleanup. As a daughter of the Gulf Coast, I know that it is our job to ensure people that we will be eyes and ears working with the states who have valuable and vital resources to monitor air, water and land quality." Jackson also stated that the EPA has deployed air-monitoring aircraft "that is gathering information on the impact of the controlled burn on air quality, both in the area of the burn, and, of course, further away."
•AP: "Air Force sends planes to help with Gulf oil spill." An April 30 Associated Press article reported: "Two Air Force planes have been sent to Mississippi and were awaiting orders to start dumping chemicals on the oil spill threatening the coast, as the government worked Friday to determine how large a role the military should play in the cleanup."
•WSJ: Navy joins Obama's "robust response." An April 30 Wall Street Journal article reported that "The U.S. Navy said it will send more than 12 additional miles of inflatable oil booms to the Gulf, as well as seven towable skimming systems and 50 contractors with experience operating the equipment." The article continued: "The Navy is making two large facilities available to the Coast Guard personnel and BP-employed contractors who are currently taking the lead in fighting the spill. Military officials said the booms and skimmers were being sent to a Naval construction base in Gulfport, Miss. The Navy also opened its air base in Pensacola, Fla., to the effort."
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Old June 15th, 2010, 07:01 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
Obama needed to mobilize all available government and private resources to contain the spill and prevent it from reaching shore. Action - not dithering.

Take charge and show a little leadership. He could've made BP pay for it all later.
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Old June 15th, 2010, 07:10 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by tcxtreme1000 View Post
Thats because we are out working to support the people who put Obama in office. And I am not a republican I am a Patriot.
LMAO!!!: thumb:
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Old June 15th, 2010, 07:16 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
I know you hate having a black president, but Obama has a score of 100 in responding to natural disasters and other emergencies.
Nice play of the race card.
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Old June 15th, 2010, 07:24 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
I know you hate having a black president, but Obama has a score of 100 in responding to natural disasters and other emergencies.
AGB, you have asked us not to generalize about how we think you feel - I would ask the same courtesy in return; not all of us are concerned with the President's race. As far as having a "score of 100" for response, I would ask your opinion of this: how much of that score comes from personal integrity, and how much comes from learning from the past administration's mistakes?

In the end, it doesn't matter either way, as long as aid is provided when it is needed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz
When Georgia had a flood last September, Governor Perdue called the White House on a Tuesday, the president had FEMA on the job on Tuesday, and Biden came on Thursday. Even Senators Chambliss and Isakson praised the president for his rapid response.
Yes, that is all well and good; Georgia's governor acted as ha should have. I don't have time to search, however, how long did it take FEMA to react once Louisiana's governor FINALLY requested help?

Again, another question for your opinion: How much of this comes from the current administration's efforts and how much comes from overhauling FEMA after its inadequacies were exposed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz
The folks in Georgia had been in DC protesting against the president that Saturday and the storm hit that Sunday. And guess who the tea partiers were expecting to help them after showing him their asses, talking about socialism, and their disdain for "big government."... Yep, Obama.

Governor Perdue went to Panama. He wasn't even in the state when Biden got here. The Georgians were blaming the president for their problems while the governor left the state.

So why they couldn't pull themselves up by their bootstraps and help themselves instead of depending on the government to do it since they hate it so much?
You're guilty of generalization on several fronts here:

1. I do not know what the official goal of the Tea Party is, but I found this in a quick search:
Quote:
Our Goals:

1. To Defeat Tax and Spend Politicians at the Polls on Election Day, November 2010.
2. To Place a Fiscally Responsible Politician as Speaker of the House of Representatives.
source

Nowhere in any news on the tea party I have heard pits them taking a stand against government aid during a natural disaster. I think they're more whizzed off by the bailouts (helping big business) than the government helping people.
Not liking the healthcare bill forced on the nation (and the loopholes and pork) does not equal expecting government to stay entirely out of their lives.

2. You're equating Georgians to tea party members and their (as you would have us believe) hypocritical expectations of the federal government's roles and responsibilities during a natural disaster.

3. Not wanting a "tax and spend" government does not equal wanting removal of government from our lives. That will never happen, IMHO.
Not wanting a government that is willing to take over a company at the first sign of trouble does not equal letting big business run unregulated to do what it wants at its will.


Frankly, you're not sounding entirely like yourself here - you're sounding like a leftist version of the "right wing pundits" you dislike.
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Old June 15th, 2010, 10:55 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
AGB, you have asked us not to generalize about how we think you feel - I would ask the same courtesy in return; not all of us are concerned with the President's race. Agreed. I take so many downright insults and name calling on this site that I got sarcastic. Truth be told, and you know it's true, there are those that have pretty much said outright they think of Obama as a n166er, and not as a person. Steveo being one in particular ("niglet" was his term, I believe).As far as having a "score of 100" for response, I would ask your opinion of this: how much of that score comes from personal integrity, and how much comes from learning from the past administration's mistakes?

In the end, it doesn't matter either way, as long as aid is provided when it is needed. Like you say, it doesn't matter. In fact, why would you even pose the question? Is that to discount his integrity had the last administration not screwed up? Oh wait. According to the Republicans on this site, Bush didn't screw up.




Yes, that is all well and good; Georgia's governor acted as ha should have. I don't have time to search, however, how long did it take FEMA to react once Louisiana's governor FINALLY requested help?

Again, another question for your opinion: How much of this comes from the current administration's efforts and how much comes from overhauling FEMA after its inadequacies were exposed? Again, immaterial and irrelevant.



You're guilty of generalization on several fronts here:

1. I do not know what the official goal of the Tea Party is, but I found this in a quick search:

source

What is wrong with a "tax and spend" administration? Think about it: if we had a pay as you go system then we wouldn't have budget deficits. The current speaker wants that system, as does our governor. But hey, they're women, so they don't get much respect around here.

"Fiscally responsible"? You mean like GWB committing us to $2 TRILLION dollars for the illegal invasioin of Iraq? What about selling our asses off to China and other 3rd world countries. What about the massive deficit spending under GWB? How is it that this is all forgotten? Remember, GWB and Hank Paulson started this whole bailout thing before Obama was even elected.


Nowhere in any news on the tea party I have heard pits them taking a stand against government aid during a natural disaster. I think they're more whizzed off by the bailouts (helping big business) than the government helping people.
Not liking the healthcare bill forced on the nation (and the loopholes and pork) does not equal expecting government to stay entirely out of their lives. Okay.

2. You're equating Georgians to tea party members and their (as you would have us believe) hypocritical expectations of the federal government's roles and responsibilities during a natural disaster. I used the term to point our where they were from.

3. Not wanting a "tax and spend" government does not equal wanting removal of government from our lives. That will never happen, IMHO.
Not wanting a government that is willing to take over a company at the first sign of trouble does not equal letting big business run unregulated to do what it wants at its will. You're exaggerating and you know it. They didn't "take ocver a company at the first sign of trouble". GM had been in big trouble for quite some time. They stepped in and saved a HUGE part of our economy. Please, provide a list of all the companies the government has taken over at the first sign of trouble.

Funny how most Republicans here probably didn't object when Reagan threated to fire the ATC workers during their strike, violating long-held protections that are the purpose of forming a union in the furst place.



Frankly, you're not sounding entirely like yourself here - you're sounding like a leftist version of the "right wing pundits" you dislike.
Well, then I must have set a very high standard coming in to receive criticism for what is standard practice by the Republicans and Theocrats around here. Thanks for the compliment!
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Old June 15th, 2010, 11:40 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
I was asking questions. Why is it that asking questions around here is "antagonistic"?

I heard right wing pundits criticizing Obama on this and it raised the questions I posted. Simple, straightforward questions. Nothing to be angry about.

I have no grand plan to solve this crisis, however the grand plan to prevent such crisis are to reform the regulatory process. I suspect most of you don't know the changes Bush and Cheney made while in office, and how their stripping of regulatory oversight and switching to "voluntary compliance" are why we had this problem in the first place, but I suspect that even if I posted every change they made it would still be defended by the righties.
I would like to hear the details about this.

I work in a DOT/PHMSA regulated industry, and while I am really only familiar with my particular industry, I assure you there is no such thing as "voluntary compliance" for us. We either comply or are fined/restricted/shut down. The regulations on us (as an industry) got significantly stricter in 2003/2004 and have not been reduced since then, nor have the federal audits relaxed any. In fact, PHMSA has come out with a new scheme of audit to be even more in-depth.
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Old June 15th, 2010, 03:03 PM   #49
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Well, then I must have set a very high standard coming in to receive criticism for what is standard practice by the Republicans and Theocrats around here. Thanks for the compliment!
dammit all to hell, I hate when you answer inside my quotes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
AGB, you have asked us not to generalize about how we think you feel - I would ask the same courtesy in return; not all of us are concerned with the President's race. Agreed. I take so many downright insults and name calling on this site that I got sarcastic. Truth be told, and you know it's true, there are those that have pretty much said outright they think of Obama as a n166er, and not as a person. Steveo being one in particular ("niglet" was his term, I believe).

As far as having a "score of 100" for response, I would ask your opinion of this: how much of that score comes from personal integrity, and how much comes from learning from the past administration's mistakes?

In the end, it doesn't matter either way, as long as aid is provided when it is needed. Like you say, it doesn't matter. In fact, why would you even pose the question? Is that to discount his integrity had the last administration not screwed up? Oh wait. According to the Republicans on this site, Bush didn't screw up.

I posed the question based entirely on your original statement it is relevant. Taken as you stated, you would have us believe that Obama's score was entirely based on how awesome, kindhearted and full of goodwill he is. I wanted your opinion if that's what you thought, or that he learned well from past administrations. It is not my intent to discount his integrity - I think he has a very good take on many issues. Disagreeing with some of what he does doesn't make me want to burn him at the stake.




Yes, that is all well and good; Georgia's governor acted as ha should have. I don't have time to search, however, how long did it take FEMA to react once Louisiana's governor FINALLY requested help?

Again, another question for your opinion: How much of this comes from the current administration's efforts and how much comes from overhauling FEMA after its inadequacies were exposed? Again, immaterial and irrelevant.

Again, I disagree. It is a valid point for an interesting discussion.

You're guilty of generalization on several fronts here:

1. I do not know what the official goal of the Tea Party is, but I found this in a quick search:

source

What is wrong with a "tax and spend" administration? Think about it: if we had a pay as you go system then we wouldn't have budget deficits. The current speaker wants that system, as does our governor. But hey, they're women, so they don't get much respect around here.

"Fiscally responsible"? You mean like GWB committing us to $2 TRILLION dollars for the illegal invasioin of Iraq? What about selling our asses off to China and other 3rd world countries. What about the massive deficit spending under GWB? How is it that this is all forgotten? Remember, GWB and Hank Paulson started this whole bailout thing before Obama was even elected.

What I feel is wrong with a "Tax and Spend" government is that has nowhere to go but get bigger in size and, therefore, waste. I agree with spending only what is "earned" through taxes, however, we already see taxation without spending, via the new healthcare bill recently passed. Before going too far - I think taxing now for spending later was a wise choice and hopefully the heathcare infrastructure will grow accordingly in the next four years to handle the increased demand of people finally having some coverage.

What I don't like is a government that decides that it knows best for me and will make decisions based upon that and generate more social programs or agencies. I see the healthcare bill just as that; we couldn't get by with just getting help to those in need; we had to drag everybody into it in this bill (and *FORGOT* to cover some of the people originally intended). Statements like pelosi's claiming "We need to pass this bill first to see what it's all about" unsettle me. It's the attitude that they know what's best for us, so just shut up and accept it - attitude I see sometimes that gets tiring.

Also, Bush isn't President, so stop bringing him up. This is not a discussion of "well, you don't agree with Obama, but Bush did -blah-blah-blah". Bush spent lots of money on a lot of things. Right or wrong, no matter how much good that money could've done spent elsewhere, it is a moot point. IMHO, what the current administration is doing / reacting like is based more on "Look, we're not Bush!" than they should.



Nowhere in any news on the tea party I have heard pits them taking a stand against government aid during a natural disaster. I think they're more whizzed off by the bailouts (helping big business) than the government helping people.
Not liking the healthcare bill forced on the nation (and the loopholes and pork) does not equal expecting government to stay entirely out of their lives. Okay.

2. You're equating Georgians to tea party members and their (as you would have us believe) hypocritical expectations of the federal government's roles and responsibilities during a natural disaster. I used the term to point our where they were from.

3. Not wanting a "tax and spend" government does not equal wanting removal of government from our lives. That will never happen, IMHO.
Not wanting a government that is willing to take over a company at the first sign of trouble does not equal letting big business run unregulated to do what it wants at its will. You're exaggerating and you know it. They didn't "take ocver a company at the first sign of trouble". GM had been in big trouble for quite some time. They stepped in and saved a HUGE part of our economy. Please, provide a list of all the companies the government has taken over at the first sign of trouble.

Funny how most Republicans here probably didn't object when Reagan threated to fire the ATC workers during their strike, violating long-held protections that are the purpose of forming a union in the furst place.


It is an exaggeration, HOWEVER, that is EXACTLY how the people you're poking a finger at feel about it. If you read up in my original post, I said I cannot talk ill about Obama on this; his aid to the auto companies saved my job and IMHO, the Michigan economy. People see the government regulating pay of employees in free enterprise a bit encroaching too. All new things that the far right uses to scare the people.

Frankly, you're not sounding entirely like yourself here - you're sounding like a leftist version of the "right wing pundits" you dislike.
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Old June 16th, 2010, 11:52 AM   #50
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Everyone who hates Obama wants less government, and then they bitch when Obama doesn't step in on an issue? I don't get it. Which one do you want? Do you want the private sector to handle it's own issues and resolve it's own problems, or do you want micro-management by the govt?
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Old June 16th, 2010, 12:40 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Bones View Post
Everyone who hates Obama wants less government, and then they bitch when Obama doesn't step in on an issue? I don't get it. Which one do you want? Do you want the private sector to handle it's own issues and resolve it's own problems, or do you want micro-management by the govt?
I think by Your own Observation the answer to your question is "Yes". .
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Old June 16th, 2010, 01:02 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Bones View Post
Everyone who hates Obama wants less government, and then they bitch when Obama doesn't step in on an issue? I don't get it. Which one do you want? Do you want the private sector to handle it's own issues and resolve it's own problems, or do you want micro-management by the govt?
It has nothing to do with more or less government. It's about using the government we have to get resources on scene to mitigate the situation. It is BPs spill, but it is americas problem.

You don't get it. FEMA should have been involved long ago coordinating the efforts, Opie sent lawyers. They need more of everything, except speeches.

We need leadership, Obama offers taxes (cap/trade). Obama and his aministration is lost, they do not know what to do.
It's all about politics and nothing about saving the gulf.
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Old June 16th, 2010, 01:16 PM   #53
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You don't get it. FEMA should have been involved long ago coordinating the efforts, Opie sent lawyers. They need more of everything, except speeches.
disagree, there shouldn't be FEMA. We don't need govt programs to fix free market issues. We just need accountability of private sectors. The more govt programs there are to fix anything (FEMA, welfare, etc) the less accountability there is to the general public. We're assuming the govt is here to fix things. They shouldn't be.
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Old June 16th, 2010, 04:05 PM   #54
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"President Obama said today he is going to use the Gulf disaster to immediately push a new energy bill through Congress. I got an idea ... How about first using the Gulf disaster to fix the Gulf disaster?" --Jay Leno
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I hope I am not a racist, I mean I drive fast, But I am not specialized at it.
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Old June 16th, 2010, 05:26 PM   #55
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*crickets*
What? Sorry...we were at our JOBS, WOKRING, paying for liberals who are collecting welfare at this moment
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Old June 16th, 2010, 10:00 PM   #56
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Hmmmm.... I thought the idiots with the bumper stickers were supposed to be liberals....? Funny, I don't have any bumper stickers, and this yokel doesn't look like a liberal to me....
Truck with tools, a working man. No liberal there.
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Old June 17th, 2010, 09:45 PM   #57
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disagree, there shouldn't be FEMA. We don't need govt programs to fix free market issues. We just need accountability of private sectors. The more govt programs there are to fix anything (FEMA, welfare, etc) the less accountability there is to the general public. We're assuming the govt is here to fix things. They shouldn't be.


Great idea. Except for one thing... How can we have "accountability of private sectors" without oversight and enforcement by "the people" (that's "the government", according to our Constitution)?
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Old June 17th, 2010, 10:10 PM   #58
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dammit all to hell, I hate when you answer inside my quotes.
L4 taught me how to do that quote/unquote thing, so I don't think I'll have to do that anymore..... Crap.... Now I don't know how to pull up the sections you wrote to itemize my response....

Here are some:

YOU SAID: "What I don't like is a government that decides that it knows best for me and will make decisions based upon that and generate more social programs or agencies. I see the healthcare bill just as that; we couldn't get by with just getting help to those in need; we had to drag everybody into it in this bill (and *FORGOT* to cover some of the people originally intended). Statements like pelosi's claiming "We need to pass this bill first to see what it's all about" unsettle me. It's the attitude that they know what's best for us, so just shut up and accept it - attitude I see sometimes that gets tiring."

Ah yes. One of the shortcomings of a system of democratic representation... We elect someone to speak for us. The problem is that we've relinquished almost all control... WE. US. We outnumber them. We can do something about it. We can speak with our votes.

Think about it: if no one voted for a Republican OR a Democrat, and we all voted independent, green party, whatever, a whole lot of bought and paid for people would be out of jobs. A lot of new people would be in office. A lot of people in Washington would isten.

See, many people here are getting caught up in the propaganda, both left and right, which keeps us arguing with each other instead of finding common ground and marching together.

When our military is used against us in a martial law action, because Bush basically trashed our long held posse comitatus protections, will you still be arguing with me, or fighting next to me?

Don't blame it on the politicians. We are to blame. Every last one of us.


"Also, Bush isn't President, so stop bringing him up. This is not a discussion of "well, you don't agree with Obama, but Bush did -blah-blah-blah". Bush spent lots of money on a lot of things. Right or wrong, no matter how much good that money could've done spent elsewhere, it is a moot point. IMHO, what the current administration is doing / reacting like is based more on "Look, we're not Bush!" than they should."

Well now wait a minute. Obama inherited a crapstorm. Bush inherited a balanced budget and a national debt that was being paid DOWN. I think most of us had good jobs and everyone I knew was doing pretty damn well. By the end of the Bush administration this country was in the shitter.

Besides, people keep blaming Clinton for Bin Laden being alive, 9/11, and the current financial meltdown; and Roosevelt for public assistance... ETC. To say you can't backtrack to the responsible party is just not realistic. Funny, no one ever saw me say "Clinton isn't the president anymore, so you can't bring him up". So once a president is out of office is all history is erased?

Obama has been in office barely over a year. My job requires at LEAST 1 year just to get your feet on solid ground, and that's if you are highly experienced, and I don't have a failing economy, an illegal occupation, and all the other things to deal with.


You're something of an enigma. "Extreme Moderate" is an excellent description. If you feel that you would like to see the world start investing in renewable energy sources; end the dependence on fossil fuels and pollutants; provide excellent education and healthcare for all people; protect the rights endowed by the U.S. Constitution; limit police and military powers; foster diversity of thought, philosophy, religion, race, etc. you could wake up one morning and find out that you're a liberal....
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Old June 17th, 2010, 10:21 PM   #59
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Nice play of the race card.
If all else fails play the race card as liberals normally do, even though it has nothing to do with his policies, or maybe it is Bush's fault, ya thats it blame Bush.
Heard an interesting piece the other day, a question asked to the people of Louisiana if Bush did a better job with Katrina or Obama with the oil spill and they people said Bush did a better job in response than Obama.
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Old June 17th, 2010, 10:39 PM   #60
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If all else fails play the race card as liberals normally do, even though it has nothing to do with his policies, or maybe it is Bush's fault, ya thats it blame Bush.
Heard an interesting piece the other day, a question asked to the people of Louisiana if Bush did a better job with Katrina or Obama with the oil spill and they people said Bush did a better job in response than Obama.
Actually, steveo did it when he said I voted for the "niglet". Given the other names used to descrive Obama, I think I can safely say there's abit of racism going on around here. Maybe not you (or maybe so?), but many here.

Hmmm... I wonder:

1. Where you heard the "interesting piece",
2. How many people were asked,
3. What the level of education and awareness is of the segment.
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