founding father said..... - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier All Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 6th, 2010, 06:40 AM   #1
jimhri
Senior Member
 
jimhri's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-17-07
Location: north of a bankrupt city
Posts: 3,299
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default founding father said.....

"There is a rank due to the United States, among nations, which will be withheld, if not absolutely lost, by the reputation of weakness." --George Washington
jimhri is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old June 7th, 2010, 11:04 AM   #2
3-foot
Senior Member
 
3-foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-21-06
Location: Springfield Township, Mi
Posts: 1,111
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

-Patrick Henry
St. John's Church, Richmond, Virginia
March 23, 1775.

Full Text here:

http://www.history.org/almanack/life...ics/giveme.cfm
3-foot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7th, 2010, 09:45 PM   #3
disorder xj
Happy,happy,joy,joy
 
disorder xj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-13-06
Location: Mio MI.
Posts: 2,900
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

Thomas Jefferson, letter to a Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association, Connecticut, January
disorder xj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7th, 2010, 10:10 PM   #4
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,083
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe - Thomas Jefferson

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not - Thomas Jefferson
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7th, 2010, 10:15 PM   #5
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,083
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by disorder xj View Post
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

Thomas Jefferson, letter to a Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association, Connecticut, January
Why did the (state) government print bibles and make them required reading material in schools? If there was this so called separation? I beleive that our founding fathers knew more about the constitution than you and how you are interpeting it
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2010, 08:04 AM   #6
3-foot
Senior Member
 
3-foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-21-06
Location: Springfield Township, Mi
Posts: 1,111
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever."

Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, Query 18, 1781


They are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which may be good for the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and as they sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please...Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given them. It was intended to lace them up straightly within the enumerated powers and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect.

Thomas Jefferson, Opinion on National Bank, 1791

Last edited by 3-foot; June 8th, 2010 at 08:35 AM.
3-foot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2010, 04:47 PM   #7
disorder xj
Happy,happy,joy,joy
 
disorder xj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-13-06
Location: Mio MI.
Posts: 2,900
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Why did the (state) government print bibles and make them required reading material in schools? If there was this so called separation? I beleive that our founding fathers knew more about the constitution than you and how you are interpeting it
I think Your full of shit and believe what you want not what is real . Go read wallbuilders some more.
disorder xj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2010, 07:03 PM   #8
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,083
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by disorder xj View Post
I think Your full of shit and believe what you want not what is real . Go read wallbuilders some more.
Wow, full of anger and hatred. Where is the tolerance?
I guess the truth does hurt, eh?
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2010, 07:10 PM   #9
upchuck
Senior Member
 
upchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-16-07
Location: grand rapids, Michigan
Posts: 1,100
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Why did the (state) government print bibles and make them required reading material in schools? If there was this so called separation? I beleive that our founding fathers knew more about the constitution than you and how you are interpeting it
congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof:

Required reading violates the establishment clause, not an interpretation, direct wording from the document
upchuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2010, 07:21 PM   #10
disorder xj
Happy,happy,joy,joy
 
disorder xj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-13-06
Location: Mio MI.
Posts: 2,900
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Wow, full of anger and hatred. Where is the tolerance?
I guess the truth does hurt, eh?
What ever You say .Thats not any anger it's just the way I talk . And from what You post the truth has very little to do with what You say.
disorder xj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2010, 07:23 PM   #11
disorder xj
Happy,happy,joy,joy
 
disorder xj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-13-06
Location: Mio MI.
Posts: 2,900
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by upchuck View Post
congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof:

Required reading violates the establishment clause, not an interpretation, direct wording from the document
Not in aber's world.
disorder xj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2010, 08:23 PM   #12
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,782
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by disorder xj View Post
Not in aber's world.
Aber's World, somebody needs to pitch that as a sitcom to PAX. ;)
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2010, 08:24 PM   #13
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,083
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by upchuck View Post
congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof:

Required reading violates the establishment clause, not an interpretation, direct wording from the document
So our founding fathers were unconstitutional in what they were doing, even though they wrote and drafted the very document in question. And yet 200 years later people(liberal minded) attempt to tell others what our founding fathers meant.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2010, 08:30 PM   #14
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,083
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Aber's World, somebody needs to pitch that as a sitcom to PAX. ;)
Its not just my world, it is what our founding fathers had in mind for this country. It is the liberal left that is turning this country into a nation of socialists.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2010, 08:35 PM   #15
disorder xj
Happy,happy,joy,joy
 
disorder xj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-13-06
Location: Mio MI.
Posts: 2,900
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by disorder xj View Post
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

Thomas Jefferson, letter to a Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association, Connecticut, January
Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Its not just my world, it is what our founding fathers had in mind for this country. It is the liberal left that is turning this country into a nation of socialists.
What part of this don't You get ? This was written by one of the founding fathers . I think He knew what He was saying when He wrote it.
disorder xj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2010, 09:17 PM   #16
ovrlnd
HURL SCOUTS
 
ovrlnd's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-23-07
Location: Westland, Michigan
Posts: 10,003
iTrader: (14)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to ovrlnd
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not - Thomas Jefferson
this could have been written today.
ovrlnd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2010, 09:24 PM   #17
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,923
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by upchuck View Post
congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof:

Required reading violates the establishment clause, not an interpretation, direct wording from the document
Well, they DID read that book. "The New england Premier" I believe was the name. It taught children using stories from the bible. 'A' = Adams Fall, So on. It may not line up with the Screwed up view this country has now, but it's history. It happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by disorder xj View Post
What part of this don't You get ? This was written by one of the founding fathers . I think He knew what He was saying when He wrote it.
The Quote you quoted from Thomas J. Sounds alot like him realizing what happens when the Legislative side of the country gets involved in the church. Not the other way around. These men Came from England where the church and state were one and they knew that what ever the Government got thier hands into, it would become Corrupt. They made Separation of Church and state to protect the church. Just like they created this country to protect the Freedom of any man, woman and child to have a Religion, free of Legislative Corruption from the Government. They also believed in very little Government Control. How bout we talk about how much we've gotten away from that idea.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2010, 09:27 PM   #18
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,923
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
"And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...Reason and expierience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of Religious Principle"
- George Washington (The will of the people: Readings in American Democracy)

Quote:
Religion and Good morals are the only solid Foundations of public liberty and happiness
-Samuel Adams

Some of my Favorites.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2010, 09:34 PM   #19
disorder xj
Happy,happy,joy,joy
 
disorder xj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-13-06
Location: Mio MI.
Posts: 2,900
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Well, they DID read that book. "The New england Premier" I believe was the name. It taught children using stories from the bible. 'A' = Adams Fall, So on. It may not line up with the Screwed up view this country has now, but it's history. It happened.



The Quote you quoted from Thomas J. Sounds alot like him realizing what happens when the Legislative side of the country gets involved in the church. Not the other way around. These men Came from England where the church and state were one and they knew that what ever the Government got thier hands into, it would become Corrupt. They made Separation of Church and state to protect the church. Just like they created this country to protect the Freedom of any man, woman and child to have a Religion, free of Legislative Corruption from the Government. They also believed in very little Government Control. How bout we talk about how much we've gotten away from that idea.
It works both ways . The gov should not tell people what to worshop and the church should not try to make laws for people that don't believe what they do . I don't care what anyone believes but It's not their right to tell me what I should believe. If aber had his way the laws would go along with His faith which would be no different or better then muslum law.
disorder xj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8th, 2010, 09:35 PM   #20
disorder xj
Happy,happy,joy,joy
 
disorder xj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-13-06
Location: Mio MI.
Posts: 2,900
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
- George Washington (The will of the people: Readings in American Democracy)


-Samuel Adams

Some of my Favorites.
Religion doesn't just mean christianity. you know that right?
disorder xj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:18 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.24801 seconds with 80 queries