Fords new diesel - Page 2 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > The Pub
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

The Pub A friendly forum where everybody is nice, and will answer any questions you have about life.

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 2nd, 2010, 08:17 PM   #21
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,607
iTrader: (36)
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
And, these trucks are much more serviceable than earlier models.
ie: no more pulling the cab to pull a turbo. and the whole fuel system is more accessible.

So even if they did fukc this one up, it will be somewhat "less" of a pain in the ass to service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
And, these trucks are much more serviceable than earlier models.
ie: no more pulling the cab to pull a turbo. and the whole fuel system is more accessible.

So even if they did fukc this one up, it will be somewhat "less" of a pain in the ass to service.
you can say that again.
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old June 2nd, 2010, 08:22 PM   #22
Skooter_Built
Fuck talk, Duck walk!
 
Skooter_Built's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Whitelake, MI
Posts: 14,596
iTrader: (26)
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Default

I love my 7.3 Actually I do like the 6.4 and the 6.7 becuase of their new fuel system. Common Rail FTW!!!
__________________
I'm the man in White.

If you want peace, prepare for war!

Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
Skooter_Built is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2010, 08:23 PM   #23
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,607
iTrader: (36)
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skooter_Built View Post
I love my 7.3 Actually I do like the 6.4 and the 6.7 becuase of their new fuel system. Common Rail FTW!!!
Hey dumbass - your 7.3L has TWO "common rails"!
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2010, 09:01 PM   #24
Skooter_Built
Fuck talk, Duck walk!
 
Skooter_Built's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Whitelake, MI
Posts: 14,596
iTrader: (26)
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Hey dumbass - your 7.3L has TWO "common rails"!
stupid Deadhead & $3000 injectors
__________________
I'm the man in White.

If you want peace, prepare for war!

Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
Skooter_Built is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2010, 09:11 PM   #25
04PSD
aka Langford
 
04PSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-02-07
Location: La Salle, MI
Posts: 1,301
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

A guy on another forum I'm on has a new 6.7, hopefully his is just a fluke...the last thing Ford needs is another round of diesel issues:

(he bought the truck on may 8th)

(may 21)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 358ciHD View Post
My new Ford just took a dump.....had to have it towed..told the DEF pump went bad!
(may 23)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 358ciHD View Post
I was towing a 40-foot gooseneck...Ford's roadside assistance would only tow my truck,...I had to pay out the rear for the loaded gooseneck to get moved.....

I was really praising this new truck.....hopefully I can get that new tuner that eliminates the DEF "Diesel Exhaust Fluid" and DPF.

Other than that I love the truck.......just don't love it right now....

No parts for a week..maybe longer...

Aaron
(may 25)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 358ciHD View Post
Truck is still broken..........Hope Ford decides they wanna pick up my $1000.00 per month payment on this Bitch......LOL

(may 27)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 358ciHD View Post
Being told that I MIGHT be ready tomorrow.......called my friend at the parts house and he said the pump is on back order so this would mean they would have to yank on off a new truck....I told them that if it was not ready I needed a "NEW" truck for my holiday truck with a gooseneck hitch in the bed.


he hasn't posted anything since, but I just asked him for an update.
04PSD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2010, 09:21 PM   #26
stunya
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 05-31-09
Location: Ypsilanti Township / Michigan
Posts: 275
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

i am a 6.4 owner and have towed with it, beat on it, wheeled it (a little), and have generally enjoyed it. Stock i saw about 13/16 mpg. I see similar numbers now, but wont go into my list of mods.

Overall it has been a joy other than a few small hiccups that had nothing to do with Ford.

The new 6.7 is an improvement in many areas including using compacted graphite iron block, supposed fuel econ improvements, and much better overall emissions.

Not trying to pick on the guy with the brand new 6.7, but we all know it takes at least a few months to work all the kinks out. I personally think by the 12 model year its going to be rock solid.

Also...in the defense of numbers (which mean nothing when talking about this kind of truck) these are baseline numbers that should increase quite a bit over the next few model years with better fuel mapping, etc. I believe the Dmax is pushing its upper limits of power/torque.

I agree with everyone that all the emissions jazz is more complicated, is like a giant watermelon in the exhaust, and is expensive to repair. That being said...in order to keep an oil burner under the hood, its a necessary evil.
stunya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2010, 09:50 PM   #27
Ebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: MI
Posts: 3,396
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I'm pushing for further legislation that by 2016 diesels will only be allowed to emit hopes and dreams.
Ebs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2010, 10:37 PM   #28
hosejockey4506
Visiting Admin
 
hosejockey4506's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: fenton
Posts: 8,846
iTrader: (43)
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skooter_Built View Post
I love my 7.3 Actually I do like the 6.4 and the 6.7 becuase of their new fuel system. Common Rail FTW!!!
im not sure i have ever seen such a piece of shit motor in a truck, your truck never starts
hosejockey4506 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2010, 11:08 PM   #29
C.K.
Dont Feed the Cyco
 
C.K.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: 48386
Posts: 17,301
iTrader: (21)
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hosejockey4506 View Post
im not sure i have ever seen such a piece of shit motor in a truck, your truck never starts
User error. He Fvcks up everything he owns.
C.K. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2010, 05:02 AM   #30
toyota h8r
Senior Member
 
toyota h8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-27-10
Location: sylvania
Posts: 367
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_WJ View Post
Dodge may be in the stone age but that Cummins engine has been one of the more reliable diesel engines used in Light/Medium Duty trucks.
im die hard gm fan and nothing can beat a CUMMINS! they are tried and true I6 monsters........

i love the LMM duramax but if im going diesel, im sorry its a cummins for my work truck
toyota h8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2010, 06:38 AM   #31
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,607
iTrader: (36)
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skooter_Built View Post
stupid Deadhead & $3000 injectors
You're talking to the wrong people if you're paying $3K for 7.3L injectors. A better flowing set of rebuilts from Bean used to run $650 a few years back.
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2010, 06:46 AM   #32
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,607
iTrader: (36)
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebs View Post
I'm pushing for further legislation that by 2016 diesels will only be allowed to emit hopes and dreams.
The California Air Resources Board has you beat by several years; new diesels (yup, even the one-tons and under) will be required to meet the same PZEV emissions as a gasoline engine for HC, CO and NOx - not to mention incredibly stringent particulate matter standards.

Diesels can be cleaner than gasoline-powered cars, but get a bad reputation from all the 6" diameter chrome stack, soot belching, over-fueled trucks owned by microphallic owners possessing too many credit cards and an extra chromosome.
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2010, 06:55 AM   #33
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,607
iTrader: (36)
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04PSD View Post
A guy on another forum I'm on has a new 6.7, hopefully his is just a fluke...the last thing Ford needs is another round of diesel issues:
(he bought the truck on may 8th)
(may 21)
(may 23)
(may 25)
(may 27)
he hasn't posted anything since, but I just asked him for an update.
Well, I can attest that the DEF pump (pressurizes the urea for injection) has nothing to to with the quality of the new motor.

What stranded him is Federal Regulations.

If any part of that system goes bad, or runs out of fluid, the government states that we have to make it very unpleasant for the owner to continue to operate the vehicle without a refill or repairs. It is usually takes the form of reduced torque operating mode that will let you "limp in" to the dealer. The fact he was pulling a loaded gooseneck gives it away - Ford must use torque limiting and not speed limiting in such cases.

So, in summary, it is possible to operate the truck in the condition it is in - if it wasn't for the "safeguards" put in place to satisfy the EPA. You can run an SCR without DEF - it just doesn't do its job of converting NOx - nothing gets hurt.

Sorry to see this happening...

...I'm off to check our strategy to see WTF we do in a similar situation - this is a good example of the wrong way to do a "reduced power" mode.
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2010, 07:08 AM   #34
Bishop
Senior Member
 
Bishop's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-12-07
Location: brighton, atlanta, MI
Posts: 3,590
iTrader: (15)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Bishop
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Well, I can attest that the DEF pump (pressurizes the urea for injection) has nothing to to with the quality of the new motor.

What stranded him is Federal Regulations.

If any part of that system goes bad, or runs out of fluid, the government states that we have to make it very unpleasant for the owner to continue to operate the vehicle without a refill or repairs. It is usually takes the form of reduced torque operating mode that will let you "limp in" to the dealer. The fact he was pulling a loaded gooseneck gives it away - Ford must use torque limiting and not speed limiting in such cases.

So, in summary, it is possible to operate the truck in the condition it is in - if it wasn't for the "safeguards" put in place to satisfy the EPA. You can run an SCR without DEF - it just doesn't do its job of converting NOx - nothing gets hurt.

Sorry to see this happening...

...I'm off to check our strategy to see WTF we do in a similar situation - this is a good example of the wrong way to do a "reduced power" mode.
There is a gauge isn't there? its his fault.
Bishop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2010, 07:15 AM   #35
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,607
iTrader: (36)
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
There is a gauge isn't there? its his fault.
I really don't have the time to give you the proper verbal beating today , so I'll leave it at this:

If a DEF pump fails, please explain how a gauge will have any influence in assigning responsibility for the pump failure?
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2010, 07:16 AM   #36
Brods
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 01-21-07
Location: Salem, Mi
Posts: 704
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skooter_Built View Post
I love my 7.3 Actually I do like the 6.4 and the 6.7 becuase of their new fuel system. Common Rail FTW!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by stunya View Post
i am a 6.4 owner and have towed with it, beat on it, wheeled it (a little), and have generally enjoyed it. Stock i saw about 13/16 mpg. I see similar numbers now, but wont go into my list of mods.

Overall it has been a joy other than a few small hiccups that had nothing to do with Ford.

The new 6.7 is an improvement in many areas including using compacted graphite iron block, supposed fuel econ improvements, and much better overall emissions.

Not trying to pick on the guy with the brand new 6.7, but we all know it takes at least a few months to work all the kinks out. I personally think by the 12 model year its going to be rock solid.

Also...in the defense of numbers (which mean nothing when talking about this kind of truck) these are baseline numbers that should increase quite a bit over the next few model years with better fuel mapping, etc. I believe the Dmax is pushing its upper limits of power/torque.

I agree with everyone that all the emissions jazz is more complicated, is like a giant watermelon in the exhaust, and is expensive to repair. That being said...in order to keep an oil burner under the hood, its a necessary evil.
One of the concerns with the Bosch HPCR is fuel filtration. Dodge used 10 micron and switched to 7 mic on the 5.9s. The newer Dodge 6.7 is a 5 mic I believe. Many feel it should be 2 mic with the HPCR and there are lots of aftermarket filtration kits available. Water seems to be a concern as well and you hear of $10K and up fuel system repair bills due to water in the fuel (“bad fuel” is not covered under any mfg’s warranty).

Anybody know what level of fuel filtration Ford is using with their new engine?
Brods is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2010, 07:28 AM   #37
Bishop
Senior Member
 
Bishop's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-12-07
Location: brighton, atlanta, MI
Posts: 3,590
iTrader: (15)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Bishop
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
I really don't have the time to give you the proper verbal beating today , so I'll leave it at this:

If a DEF pump fails, please explain how a gauge will have any influence in assigning responsibility for the pump failure?
My bad, I read that as if the truck was neglected.
Honestly, I didn't think we would see failures this early.
Bishop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2010, 08:52 AM   #38
broken2wd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 01-17-08
Location: south haven
Posts: 163
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Diesel exhaust likes to run around 600 C MAX when pulling a huge load, otherwise, it will run closer to 300 C.

The DPF requires additional fuel to be burned to elevate the exhaust gas temp to ignite trapped particulates (smoke for those of you that think smoke = power). That's the only time the exhaust runs that hot unless heavily loaded.

You, Sir, are wrong in your theory. 2009-10 6.4L had a DPF; what the reason now?
The 6.4 was running quite a bit cooler than the 6.0 and 7.3. The reason it was run cooler was to cut down on NOx (it may have been something else but whatever, it was for emissions) emissions. now with the DEF they can run the motor hotter where it wants to be and take care of the NOx with the after treatment. which in turn leads to less build up on the DPF so it requires less regen cycles. resulting in better mileage.
broken2wd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2010, 09:46 AM   #39
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,607
iTrader: (36)
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by broken2wd View Post
The 6.4 was running quite a bit cooler than the 6.0 and 7.3. The reason it was run cooler was to cut down on NOx (it may have been something else but whatever, it was for emissions) emissions. now with the DEF they can run the motor hotter where it wants to be and take care of the NOx with the after treatment. which in turn leads to less build up on the DPF so it requires less regen cycles. resulting in better mileage.
You're thinking of EGR, and the temperature refers to combustion, not exhaust temps. Using an SCR with DEF only allows manufacturers to meet the ever-increasing stranglehold of emissions standards - EGR is still used in excess.

"Less build up on the DPF" The soot that the DPF filters is a function of combustion quality and load, not this "Magic Hotness" you keep referring to.
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2010, 09:50 AM   #40
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,607
iTrader: (36)
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
My bad, I read that as if the truck was neglected.
Honestly, I didn't think we would see failures this early.
Ford has a history of changing component specs at the last minute and bullying suppliers to attempt the impossible. I wouldn't be surprised if the failures are driven by Ford's last-minute cost-cutting.

In a similar fashion - that was what was the source for the 6.0L injector problems right out of the gate. They demanded "Supplier A" cut costs / size while maintaining functionality; "Supplier A" said: "We can't." "Supplier B" said: "WE CAN! WE CAN!" and Ford went with them.

The rest is (ugly) history.
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > The Pub

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:08 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.43725 seconds with 80 queries