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Old May 20th, 2010, 01:51 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Steve-in-Petoskey View Post
did you hear the President of Mexico say they deport illegals form central america? "If they no have documents they go away."
and Obama-al-baba just nodded his head.

I think mine spun around again watching him.
He had to nod his head because he won't salute our flag.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 02:35 PM   #22
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Heavy fines for employers caught paying under the table cash to illegals

If the employer can show they are following the law and withholding taxes, have been shown valid documentation this is all Jose's problem.

Jail time for employers caught paying cash under the table to illegals a second or third time.

More armed patrols of the desert so that the border is does not more holes than swiss cheese. I would even step up security on the northern border as well.


What would you propose?
Heavy fines for them if they get caught paying illegals cash and the fines go directly into the Border Patrols funding.

If they get caught a second time they do time in jail and work for their 3 hots and a cot and if they do it a third time revoke their citizenship and deport their asses.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 02:59 PM   #23
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Heavy fines for them if they get caught paying illegals cash and the fines go directly into the Border Patrols funding.

If they get caught a second time they do time in jail and work for their 3 hots and a cot and if they do it a third time revoke their citizenship and deport their asses.
OMG somebody on GL4x4 agrees with me? and it is not AGB or MikeSova

Just a minute... I need to check the weather in Hell.. Did it freeze today?
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Old May 20th, 2010, 03:12 PM   #24
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Penalize all people that pay "under the table" on a larger scale. Make it easier to get a SS # so they can get paid above the table.
Then implement flat tax on everything we buy, eliminate Fed and State income tax, eliminate the IRS, eliminate capitol gains, gift and corporate taxes, eliminate Earned income credit (you know, where you can get back more in taxes than you pay).

Then Jose and Joe both keep their $31,200 and the tax they pay is based on what they buy. So all the greedy mother fuckers that want to have the American dream (w/o paying their share) can pay all the taxes just like the rest of us. And then maybe more than 50% of people living in America would their share to keep this country great.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 03:50 PM   #25
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OMG somebody on GL4x4 agrees with me? and it is not AGB or MikeSova

Just a minute... I need to check the weather in Hell.. Did it freeze today?
Well, looking at my tally sheet here. This is the first time i've agreed with something you've said, at least completely(you do make a few good points here and there). However this will be your one get out of jail free card for grouping me in with Sova and AGoodTroll.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 04:03 PM   #26
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I read all that and missed any suggestion you have to remedy the problem you see.
However I did see where you believe employers have a responsibility to verify a person is eligible to work, but you never said if you believe this to be a law.
Got any ideas on how to fix the problem?????


I am sorry Mr. Toes. I must have over estimated your intelligence, reading comprehension skills, and reasoning abilities. I will in the future try to make my ideas easier for you to understand by using simpler words and simpler sentences.
In answer to your first question, Yes, it is the law in this country that before a company can employ a person they must verify that the person is allowed to work in this country.. Here is a link to this law:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...0045f3d6a1RCRD


What all of those big words on that page mean is that there is a form that an employer must fill out before hiring a person to work in this country. The purpose of this form is to make sure that the employer has checked the identification of the person that they wish to hire. I thought that you were a business owner, so I thought that you would have known that. Again, I am sorry that I over estimated you.

I must not have been clear in my earlier posts. I will try to make my self more clear.

Problem: American companies are hiring people to work for them that are not allowed to work in this country. They are breaking the law.
Solution: Increase the enforcement of the laws. Also, if needed, increase the punishment for breaking those laws.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 04:09 PM   #27
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So quick to jump to conclusions... My point was that you are NOT them...

That is why I needed to check if hell froze over. Anyway maybe there is hope here that the middle 60% of the country can still get things done without the fringe right and fringe left messing things up.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 04:20 PM   #28
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Problem: American companies are hiring people to work for them that are not allowed to work in this country. They are breaking the law.
Solution: Increase the enforcement of the laws. Also, if needed, increase the punishment for breaking those laws.
I believe Arizona is doing just that as part of their program to reduce the number of illegals there.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 04:26 PM   #29
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So quick to jump to conclusions... My point was that you are NOT them...

That is why I needed to check if hell froze over. Anyway maybe there is hope here that the middle 60% of the country can still get things done without the fringe right and fringe left messing things up.



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Old May 20th, 2010, 08:04 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
I am sorry Mr. Toes. I must have over estimated your intelligence, reading comprehension skills, and reasoning abilities. I will in the future try to make my ideas easier for you to understand by using simpler words and simpler sentences.
In answer to your first question, Yes, it is the law in this country that before a company can employ a person they must verify that the person is allowed to work in this country.. Here is a link to this law:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...0045f3d6a1RCRD


What all of those big words on that page mean is that there is a form that an employer must fill out before hiring a person to work in this country. The purpose of this form is to make sure that the employer has checked the identification of the person that they wish to hire. I thought that you were a business owner, so I thought that you would have known that. Again, I am sorry that I over estimated you.

I must not have been clear in my earlier posts. I will try to make my self more clear.

Problem: American companies are hiring people to work for them that are not allowed to work in this country. They are breaking the law.
Solution: Increase the enforcement of the laws. Also, if needed, increase the punishment for breaking those laws.


WOW I never knew you were so smart.

I have more stupid questions for you that maybe you can give me some easy to understand answers.

How many I-9 forms have you filled out since 1986. Me I have never even seen an I-9 form, or never given one to the 1000 plus people I have had employed since 1986.

If you purpose to increase the enforcement, I think thats what you said, what would you increase it to. Ya see I don't know what the enforcement consists of right now.

Same with the punishmen, if there is one. I really don't know what it is and I really didn't quite understand what you want to increase it to.

I guess thats why I didn't vote for Oblabla, I didn't understand what he meant by Hope, Change We Can Believe In. It really doesn't say anything to a dummy like me.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 08:08 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by 97xj View Post
Heavy fines for employers caught paying under the table cash to illegals

If the employer can show they are following the law and withholding taxes, have been shown valid documentation this is all Jose's problem.

Jail time for employers caught paying cash under the table to illegals a second or third time.

More armed patrols of the desert so that the border is does not more holes than swiss cheese. I would even step up security on the northern border as well.


What would you propose?


I'm not really sure what to do.

If you jailed an employer that might be counter productive if it put him out of business and all the employees lost their jobs...

The whole thing has to loose it's appeal of a good return on investment.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 09:38 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
WOW I never knew you were so smart.

I have more stupid questions for you that maybe you can give me some easy to understand answers.

How many I-9 forms have you filled out since 1986. Me I have never even seen an I-9 form, or never given one to the 1000 plus people I have had employed since 1986.

If you purpose to increase the enforcement, I think thats what you said, what would you increase it to. Ya see I don't know what the enforcement consists of right now.

Same with the punishmen, if there is one. I really don't know what it is and I really didn't quite understand what you want to increase it to.

I guess thats why I didn't vote for Oblabla, I didn't understand what he meant by Hope, Change We Can Believe In. It really doesn't say anything to a dummy like me.
As an employee I have filled out 1 I-9 form for every job I have had, so that would be about a dozen since 1986. Also, when I was managing restaurants I filled out an I-9 for each person hired. I do not recall how many that was.

Since the law states :

Quote:
To comply with the law, all U.S. employers must verify the employment eligibility and identity of all employees hired to work in the United States after November 6, 1986 by completing Employment Eligibility Verification forms (Forms I-9) for all employees, including U.S. citizens.
And you have now publicly admitted to violating that law 1000 plus times I think a good place to start increasing enforcement of the law would be to send federal officials to your business and asking to see these forms. I do not know what the fine is for not verifying the employment eligibility of the people you hire and filling out the proper forms, but lets start with something reasonable, say $1000 for each violation. Maybe the $1 million dollar fine will be enough to convince you to stop breaking the law. If not it needs to go up. I donít know what it needs to go up to. You tell me, what do we need to do to get you to stop breaking the law? Bigger fines? Seizing your business? Throwing you in jail?

I do not claim to be an expert on the enforcement and punishment of laws, so sorry, I can not be more specific. Obviously both needs to be increased, because you are breaking the law.

I donít know how you can expect someone from another country to respect our laws when you donít.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 09:43 PM   #33
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I'm not really sure what to do.

If you jailed an employer that might be counter productive if it put him out of business and all the employees lost their jobs...

The whole thing has to loose it's appeal of a good return on investment.
If his employees are illegal immigrants they should lose thier jobs and he should be in jail.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 10:43 PM   #34
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As an employee I have filled out 1 I-9 form for every job I have had, so that would be about a dozen since 1986. Also, when I was managing restaurants I filled out an I-9 for each person hired. I do not recall how many that was.

Since the law states :



And you have now publicly admitted to violating that law 1000 plus times I think a good place to start increasing enforcement of the law would be to send federal officials to your business and asking to see these forms. I do not know what the fine is for not verifying the employment eligibility of the people you hire and filling out the proper forms, but lets start with something reasonable, say $1000 for each violation. Maybe the $1 million dollar fine will be enough to convince you to stop breaking the law. If not it needs to go up. I donít know what it needs to go up to. You tell me, what do we need to do to get you to stop breaking the law? Bigger fines? Seizing your business? Throwing you in jail?

I do not claim to be an expert on the enforcement and punishment of laws, so sorry, I can not be more specific. Obviously both needs to be increased, because you are breaking the law.

I donít know how you can expect someone from another country to respect our laws when you donít.

I always like reading your twisted half truths. You fail to mention, or you didn't know, that a W-2 can be filled out in lieu of an I-9. You also fail to mention, or you didn't know that if you do fill out an I-9 form the only thing you do with it is stick it in a file for three years in your office then wipe your ass with it. There is no requirement you keep one any longer than three years and there is no filing requirement for an I-9.
I will gladly give you my office address so you can send the feds over to review my employee paper work AGAIN. I will also give them the address of the several employee lease companys I have used over the years that also DON'T require an I-9.
OMG you are soooo smart I just don't know how I have survived as an employer for 30 years without your input...
I must be soooo lucky to have gone through 2 Irs audits, countless OSHA exams, District, Circut, and Federal court cases, and never paid a dime or served any jail time.
You are amazing, I assume the $1,000.00 fine you mention is something else you pulled out of your ass, since it isn't any current standard for improper employee paperwork.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 10:50 PM   #35
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Old May 20th, 2010, 11:32 PM   #36
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I always like reading your twisted half truths. You fail to mention, or you didn't know, that a W-2 can be filled out in lieu of an I-9. You also fail to mention, or you didn't know that if you do fill out an I-9 form the only thing you do with it is stick it in a file for three years in your office then wipe your ass with it. There is no requirement you keep one any longer than three years and there is no filing requirement for an I-9.
I will gladly give you my office address so you can send the feds over to review my employee paper work AGAIN. I will also give them the address of the several employee lease companys I have used over the years that also DON'T require an I-9.
OMG you are soooo smart I just don't know how I have survived as an employer for 30 years without your input...
I must be soooo lucky to have gone through 2 Irs audits, countless OSHA exams, District, Circut, and Federal court cases, and never paid a dime or served any jail time.
You are amazing, I assume the $1,000.00 fine you mention is something else you pulled out of your ass, since it isn't any current standard for improper employee paperwork.
What does the wage and tax statement that employers must send to employees in January have to do verifying that someone is eligible for employment in this country? So because you send your employees a statement saying how much they made and paid in taxes over the past year you donít have to verify that they are eligible to work here. What does one have to do with the other? Please show me any place anywhere that says that a W-2 can take the place of an I-9. If there is any truth to that then changing that to require employers to verify and document that their employees are eligible to work in this country would be one of my first suggested changes.
I do agree with you about a few thingsÖ
Yes, you can use the I-9 form as toilet paper if you wish after 3 years. I would suggest this also be changed to require that this documentation be retained for at least 1 year after the termination of employment, regardless of how long the employment lasts.
Yes, I too am amazed that you have survived 30 years as an employer without knowing the difference between an I-9 form and a W-2 form.
Yes, the $1000 fine for failure to fill out the proper employment forms was a rectal extraction on my part. It was my suggestion at a starting point to get people like you to start following the laws.

And yes, we need to add some form of punishment for improper employee paperwork. It is stupid to require paperwork if there is no punishment for the failure to do so.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 07:45 AM   #37
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I'm not really sure what to do.

If you jailed an employer that might be counter productive if it put him out of business and all the employees lost their jobs...

The whole thing has to loose it's appeal of a good return on investment.
If you are breaking the law then you should loose your business.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 08:29 AM   #38
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What does the wage and tax statement that employers must send to employees in January have to do verifying that someone is eligible for employment in this country? So because you send your employees a statement saying how much they made and paid in taxes over the past year you donít have to verify that they are eligible to work here. What does one have to do with the other? Please show me any place anywhere that says that a W-2 can take the place of an I-9. If there is any truth to that then changing that to require employers to verify and document that their employees are eligible to work in this country would be one of my first suggested changes.
I do agree with you about a few thingsÖ
Yes, you can use the I-9 form as toilet paper if you wish after 3 years. I would suggest this also be changed to require that this documentation be retained for at least 1 year after the termination of employment, regardless of how long the employment lasts.
Yes, I too am amazed that you have survived 30 years as an employer without knowing the difference between an I-9 form and a W-2 form.
Yes, the $1000 fine for failure to fill out the proper employment forms was a rectal extraction on my part. It was my suggestion at a starting point to get people like you to start following the laws.

And yes, we need to add some form of punishment for improper employee paperwork. It is stupid to require paperwork if there is no punishment for the failure to do so.
You are too awesome.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 08:32 AM   #39
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If you are breaking the law then you should loose your business.
Really, I think you should lose your business.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 11:02 AM   #40
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You are too awesome.
My awesomeness pales compared to yours.
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