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Old May 20th, 2010, 09:20 PM   #21
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Feel good churches are ok. I believe that they do serve a purpose. If it is a way to get the younger generation in the door and get a taste of what Christianity is about and somewhat different then what the stereo type that most think of us. At some point you need to move on and get deeper into it. Some people may just think going to church one day a week is good enough, but actually it is a way of life. Serving God and doing His work on a daily basis, Its tough to do with all the things that keep us busy but we need to pick up His cross daily and walk with Him.
Strangely enough, I agree with you. Pick your religion and run with it.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 09:31 PM   #22
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I agree! Grammar and spelling are not far behind!

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Old May 20th, 2010, 10:19 PM   #23
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When I look at matters of religion from a rational and logical perspective I find myself being a moderate agnostic Christian. In a strict logical sense non-existence can not be proven. You can prove that something exists by finding one, but not finding one does not prove that the thing in question does not exist. Any evidence of the non-existence of god that anyone could come up with would be limited to the small part of this universe that humans can perceive. Beyond what we can perceive could be an entire other realm of existence that we can not even imagine. God(s) or all other manner of beings could exist in that realm. Since I do not think that the existence or non-existence of god is something that can be definitively known, I am an agnostic.
A strong agnostic would say that the existence of god is unknown and unknowable.
A weak agnostic would say that the existence of god is unknown, but might be knowable. I agree with that, but am highly skeptical of anyone that claims to know that god exists.

But there is enough evidence for me to believe the about 2000 years ago that someone known as Jesus walked the earth, and had some pretty good ideas about how people should live. I agree with much of what he taught
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Old May 20th, 2010, 10:25 PM   #24
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And 2000 years ago He turned the known world upside down and today people still follow Him. Mention His name and people get angry. We are to remember that people hated Him first and when His followers are hated for believing in Him that is a badge of honor and I think thats OK with me.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 11:07 PM   #25
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Who cares about "feel good" churches. They worship the way they want to and everybody else can worship however they want. What I detect here is a hint of self rightiousness in regards to the "happy" church.

Note to Aber21: Don't be quoteing a bunch of stuff that says you are right and the happy church is wrong. They have just interpreted from the Bible what suits their needs; just as you have done with your church.
No Self righteousness here, I just see a Lack of depth in SOME of those kinds of churches. I grew up in smaller, more mixed worship type churches though. Also, To go about what some of you say "Well, you're just a bunch of Sheeple and listen to what the pastor says" can be very true about a good portion of churches like this. The Scary thing about it is that the pastor could portray it as complete biblical truth and they will believe it.

Joel Olsteen (SP?) is also a Good example. He claims to be a Christian Pastor but alot of his Teachings are not Christian or biblical Teaching. He is basically like a Self Help guy that is putting a Different twist on it. There has to be some form of Systematic Theology in order for a Church to grow (the right way In quality, not quantity). As Aber has said, We need to grow up as Christians. I believe it's in James that talks about needing solid spiritual Food instead of milk. These kinds of Churches provide the Milk, but no solid food.

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Feel good churches are ok. I believe that they do serve a purpose. If it is a way to get the younger generation in the door and get a taste of what Christianity is about and somewhat different then what the stereo type that most think of us. At some point you need to move on and get deeper into it. Some people may just think going to church one day a week is good enough, but actually it is a way of life. Serving God and doing His work on a daily basis, Its tough to do with all the things that keep us busy but we need to pick up His cross daily and walk with Him.
Bingo
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Old May 20th, 2010, 11:56 PM   #26
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No Self righteousness here, I just see a Lack of depth in SOME of those kinds of churches. I grew up in smaller, more mixed worship type churches though. Also, To go about what some of you say "Well, you're just a bunch of Sheeple and listen to what the pastor says" can be very true about a good portion of churches like this. The Scary thing about it is that the pastor could portray it as complete biblical truth and they will believe it.
Joel Olsteen (SP?) is also a Good example. He claims to be a Christian Pastor but alot of his Teachings are not Christian or biblical Teaching. He is basically like a Self Help guy that is putting a Different twist on it. There has to be some form of Systematic Theology in order for a Church to grow (the right way In quality, not quantity). As Aber has said, We need to grow up as Christians. I believe it's in James that talks about needing solid spiritual Food instead of milk. These kinds of Churches provide the Milk, but no solid food.

There are so many examples of churches twisting the facts that my head wants to explode. But enough of that, I want to talk about someting else.

What I don't like is one religious group (or church) "competing" with another, ie., I'm right, your wrong. I believe everybody should have the choice to worship as they see fit as long is it does not infringe upon the rights of others. If a person does not like how religion "A" (or church "A") does their thing, stay away from them. I believe alot of the religious tensions that are prevalent today stem from one group or organisation sticking its nose in another's business.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 06:17 AM   #27
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No Self righteousness here, I just see a Lack of depth in SOME of those kinds of churches. I grew up in smaller, more mixed worship type churches though. Also, To go about what some of you say "Well, you're just a bunch of Sheeple and listen to what the pastor says" can be very true about a good portion of churches like this. The Scary thing about it is that the pastor could portray it as complete biblical truth and they will believe it.
The scary thing to me, is that pastors are teaching the bible is absolute truth and that the people who learn about it view it as the most important thing in their life and then base their actions on it. That's the scary thing to me. Obviously I'm not talking about people who decide to help feed the homeless.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 07:33 AM   #28
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There are so many examples of churches twisting the facts that my head wants to explode. But enough of that, I want to talk about someting else.

What I don't like is one religious group (or church) "competing" with another, ie., I'm right, your wrong. I believe everybody should have the choice to worship as they see fit as long is it does not infringe upon the rights of others. If a person does not like how religion "A" (or church "A") does their thing, stay away from them. I believe alot of the religious tensions that are prevalent today stem from one group or organisation sticking its nose in another's business.
I agree that they should be able to worship however they want. I have no problem with this kind of worship or even, if done right, this kind of church. I'm saying that the common problem is the depth. Coming from you're view point I understand what you're saying BUT coming from an Christian Viewpoint a Christian Church (which we're talking about) should not only provide a way of worship but also disciple a Person to grow deeper in thier faith. That's a major job of the Christian Church. I'm Perfectly happy with people worshiping that way as long as they are growing too. With ANY kind of Church it's possible to not grow but with this Type of Church I've Personally seen alot of people become stagnant and even back tread.

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The scary thing to me, is that pastors are teaching the bible is absolute truth and that the people who learn about it view it as the most important thing in their life and then base their actions on it. That's the scary thing to me. Obviously I'm not talking about people who decide to help feed the homeless.

That's the thing though, For US, it is absolute truth. What kind of religion would it be if the pastor said "Well, You can believe this, or you can believe that, but also make sure to not stand your ground and be door mats to post modernistic Bull crap." I may not be able to prove it's absolute truth to you, But through my experiences I take the things I learn from my bible and from my church as absolute truth because they CAN be proven to me to be that truth.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 08:26 AM   #29
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That's the thing though, For US, it is absolute truth. What kind of religion would it be if the pastor said "Well, You can believe this, or you can believe that, but also make sure to not stand your ground and be door mats to post modernistic Bull crap." I may not be able to prove it's absolute truth to you, But through my experiences I take the things I learn from my bible and from my church as absolute truth because they CAN be proven to me to be that truth.

Mike's a huge doubter in the bible. He doesn't see how an all powerful God who could create earth and everything on it could possibly put animals on a ark and have them be peaceful together . . . Could create earth, Yes, put a bunch of animals together and have them behave, NO . . see where I"m going with this
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Old May 21st, 2010, 08:29 AM   #30
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That's the thing though, For US, it is absolute truth. What kind of religion would it be if the pastor said "Well, You can believe this, or you can believe that, but also make sure to not stand your ground and be door mats to post modernistic Bull crap." I may not be able to prove it's absolute truth to you, But through my experiences I take the things I learn from my bible and from my church as absolute truth because they CAN be proven to me to be that truth.
Exactly and you base your actions on a 2,000 year old book of what I consider legend. Scary. Take a step back and imagine somebody basing their decisions on Greek mythology and tell me that's not scary to you.

Cloth and feed the homeless, fine, I have no problem with that. Bomb an abortion clinic/Murder a doctor, fly a plane into a building, oppose scientific progress, then I have a problem.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 08:36 AM   #31
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Exactly and you base your actions on a 150 year old book of what I consider fictional theory. Scary. Take a step back and imagine somebody basing their decisions on Pokemon and tell me that's not scary to you.

Fixed it for you
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Old May 21st, 2010, 08:55 AM   #32
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Fixed it for you
fun analogy. Although, except for the basic instincts that we all use in our daily lives (which is huge, but you do it, too), I don't really purposefully base any of my decisions on evolution.

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Old May 21st, 2010, 12:04 PM   #33
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It's a form of outreach. It's to get people used to the idea of church, with the next step obviously being find a "real" church to become an active part in.

Some people don't want to move on and dig the chill "coffee shop" atmosphere so they forever attend that, some decide they want to become a part of the outreach and become active that way.

Why do you have to be all judgmental and shit? Let people do what they want.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 12:38 PM   #34
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It's a form of outreach. It's to get people used to the idea of church, with the next step obviously being find a "real" church to become an active part in.

Some people don't want to move on and dig the chill "coffee shop" atmosphere so they forever attend that, some decide they want to become a part of the outreach and become active that way.

Why do you have to be all judgmental and shit? Let people do what they want.
I'm not judging them. I'm stating an Observation that I have seen time and time again. There are churches that aren't like this kind of church that are still doing it for the motions of doing it. That's what I don't like. I grew up in churches like that. That was my dad's (Methodist pastor) goal, to get people to really mean what they say on Sunday morning and live it out everyday of the week instead of just Sunday.

And, for the record, there are churches like this that DO NOT encourage people to go to other churches and get deeper. Nor do they have a System in place that allows that person to do that at their church. It's a great Out reach, I can't argue that, but it's no good if it doesn't help people grow. It would be like pulling a Drowing victim out of the water and then letting them lie there as they die because you don't Resuscitate them but as they die you make sure they enjoyed you saving them and make sure they are comfortable.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 01:01 PM   #35
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Why do you have to be all judgmental and shit? Let people do what they want.
Best thing I've ever read in this section of the forum. Normally it just brings the funnay
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Old May 21st, 2010, 03:24 PM   #36
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Mike's a huge doubter in the bible. He doesn't see how an all powerful God who could create earth and everything on it could possibly put animals on a ark and have them be peaceful together . . . Could create earth, Yes, put a bunch of animals together and have them behave, NO . . see where I"m going with this
whoops, missed this one. No I don't see where you're going with this. Next time, make sense.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 04:22 PM   #37
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whoops, missed this one. No I don't see where you're going with this. Next time, make sense.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 05:28 PM   #38
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whoops, missed this one. No I don't see where you're going with this. Next time, make sense.
I am and you once again don't get it. Ask Jess because I believer her Jesus loving wonderful human that she is will get it.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 11:02 PM   #39
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I am and you once again don't get it. Ask Jess because I believer her Jesus loving wonderful human that she is will get it.
Stop bringing my wife into this, she thinks you're just as crazy as I do.
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 09:57 PM   #40
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Stop bringing my wife into this, she thinks you're just as crazy as I do.
Crazy like a fox for Jesus. So she doesn't believe in the Rapture? Or Noah's ark or Adam and Eve or all the other things in the Bible that you don't believe in?

Is that what you're saying?

Ultimately she'll bring you to God and I believe you'll be in Heaven with us. Lets just hope you don't die before that time.
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