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Old May 10th, 2010, 11:24 PM   #81
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Better then the woods and the cold. I live like 10 mins from the ocean .

never need to wear more then a hoodie. Life is good.
I hate you.
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Old May 11th, 2010, 12:12 AM   #82
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your engine has an oil leak...you ignore it and run out of oil...the bearings wear out and the engine fails

do you:
A: install a new engine, but still dont bother to check the oil
B:kick yourself in the ass and start paying attention to the first cause of the bigger problem


if the borders had been protected better to begin with, all of this would be a non-issue, or at least severly smaller in scale

politicians seem to do these sorts of things all the time, pass some law that everyone knows will acomplish nothing, in the hopes of getting relected based on the "look what I did" campaign

similar to the "war on drugs"...raids on small time users, maybe the occasional bigger bust of a dealer, but doing little to nothing about the drugs coming in from other places or being produced...stop the problem at the source, not at the end of the line
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Old May 11th, 2010, 01:40 AM   #83
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your engine has an oil leak...
Your yard is infested with rats... Do you:

a) try to make your yard "rat proof" with fences and walls and other barriers.
b) Poison the shit out of your yard to the point where nothing wants to live there.
c) Catch them and release them in your neighbors yard and hope they don't come back.
d) Remove all food sources and living places and hope they leave.
e) Some logical combination of all of the above.
f) welcome them and make them part of the family until we're overrun and they eat us out of house and home.

Just strengthening our borders will not keep them out if there are good enough reasons to come here.
Just making the USA more of the police state than it already is will not keep them our, and will led to us having less rights.
Just rounding them up and deporting them will not stop them out.
removing the incentive they have for coming here by cracking down on those the employ them will help but is not the complete solution either.

But if we approach the problem logically I'm sure progress could be made. If we don't do something then eventually f may end up happening
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Old May 11th, 2010, 05:29 AM   #84
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I agree with that...if you do nothing until the infestation has grown to its current level

my point is, it should not have gone this far, or for this long

since very little is done about those coming in, it really does nothing to go after those that are already here. get rid of 1, and 5 take thier place
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Old May 11th, 2010, 07:16 AM   #85
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Declare open season on CANS. Go out and round up some MexiCANS, AfriCANS, and PuetoriCANS.
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Old May 11th, 2010, 07:36 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Your yard is infested with rats... Do you:

a) try to make your yard "rat proof" with fences and walls and other barriers.
b) Poison the shit out of your yard to the point where nothing wants to live there.
c) Catch them and release them in your neighbors yard and hope they don't come back.
d) Remove all food sources and living places and hope they leave.
e) Some logical combination of all of the above.
f) welcome them and make them part of the family until we're overrun and they eat us out of house and home.

Just strengthening our borders will not keep them out if there are good enough reasons to come here.
Just making the USA more of the police state than it already is will not keep them our, and will led to us having less rights.
Just rounding them up and deporting them will not stop them out.
removing the incentive they have for coming here by cracking down on those the employ them will help but is not the complete solution either.

But if we approach the problem logically I'm sure progress could be made. If we don't do something then eventually f may end up happening

Please, let us hear your ideas. Let me gues...amnesty?
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Old May 11th, 2010, 08:04 AM   #87
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Declare open season on CANS. Go out and round up some MexiCANS, AfriCANS, and PuetoriCANS.
win.
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Old May 11th, 2010, 09:19 AM   #88
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Declare open season on CANS. Go out and round up some MexiCANS, AfriCANS, and PuetoriCANS.
don't forget the arabcans

win x2
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Old May 11th, 2010, 09:43 AM   #89
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Given all your guys position that the LEO can already ask you for ID any time they want---and add to that the feds can detain people with doubtful immigration status already---wtf is the point of your law???
.
a LEO CAN ask anyone, anytime, anywhere, anything, including for your ID, there is NO law anywhere that prohibits that including our 4th amendment

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So did you find that law that says I have to carry ID??
The court ruling he quoted above the officers had probable cause to ask for it. It is not a requirement to carry ID.

there are several laws that state you must carry your ID on you, i.e. driving, carrying a weapon, ect.

and no court will ever say an officer has to have probable cause to ask you anything, period. You should really get your facts right before you try an attempt to look smart
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Old May 11th, 2010, 10:23 AM   #90
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I do hope something is done to control the illegal entries into the country. I would think that people, trying to enter legally, would start to wonder, why wait for a process to enter. I have been looking into laws already on the books. I can't believe how many there are. Its truly mind numbing!
What gets me is how many U.S. citizens dismiss the fact that these people entered illegally!
What gets me even worse is there are laws on the books that make it illegal for business owners and companies to hire illegals. If I remember correctly, there are consequences for doing so. NEVER have I heard of a company being cited for such.
If one takes the time to look for laws that cover this subject you will find that its all covered. they just have to enforce the laws that exist.
I agree with T-hawk that more laws are not the solution. It just proves to become more restrictive for the U.S. citizen!
I also believe in what was stated earlier about the politicians wanting to be NOTICED, so that they might find themselves an easy reelection.
Many of them "in my opinion" do nothing more in office than try to justify their "positions" in the government.
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Old May 11th, 2010, 12:24 PM   #91
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No state can take away rights granted to you by the Constitution of the United States of America.


The constitution does not grant you rights. You are born with those rights. The constitution only gives the Federal gov't the power to protect your rights from enemies both foreign and domestic.
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Old May 11th, 2010, 01:10 PM   #92
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Cause I'm a freakin American--my rights shouldnt be narrowed because these people are invading my country!!
Proving you are eligible to exercise the rights granted to you as a US Citizen is not a narrowing of rights. Being the proud American you claim to be, showing something to prove it should not be a problem for you. You should happy to do so.

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Per the US Supreme Court:

The Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable searches and seizures, made applicable to the States by the Fourteenth Amendment, "protects people, not places," and therefore applies as much to the citizen on the streets as well as at home or elsewhere.

Whenever a police officer accosts an individual and restrains his freedom to walk away, he has "seized" that person within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment.
No, it does not. The key word is "citizen". That word has a very specific definition. If you cannot prove that you are a citizen or are an individual otherwise legally protected by the Constitution, the Amendment does not apply to you. As for showing "papers", we already have such measures in place - for a very, very, long time now. Hancho is correct. I believe you have an incorrect understanding of how society functions in this instance.

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but if this law passes then if I get stopped during an investigation (and lets assume I've done nothing--I'm a totally innocent person---they are just trying to determine if i'm involved with whatever they are looking in to) and now I dont have my ID on me I go to jail until my status is determined. Before this great law I would just go home.
You would still have been detained, as the scenario you described is exactly how things are right now. After determining who you are, you'd get released. After the law is passed you would be detained and deported if found to be an illegal. The difference is that you would have wasted a lot of your time and money (in the form of tax dollars that pay the people that had to investigate you) by not having ID.

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Here's the problem with that. Suppose you happen to be of Hispanic decent. You were out for a walk and there was a house broken into down the street. You didn't bother to grab your wallet before leaving the house. The police happen to stop you. Your not an immigrant, but because you don't have your ID you can't prove it. Suddenly you find yourself in the back of the police car getting a free ride to the station.
That's your problem, not a problem with the law. No different than leaving your driver's license at home and getting pulled over. Its a matter of Personal Accountability.

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I consider the right to not have to carry ID to be a very significant right.
I don't consider that a right at all. It is a personal choice that can cause you some significant headaches right now, nevermind whether this law gets passed. Cops won't just let you go on your merry way if they cannot determine your identity. They will detain you until they are satisfied (or sufficiently annoyed with you).

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If I remember correctly, there are consequences for doing so. NEVER have I heard of a company being cited for such.
I think you'll find some articles about Walmart if you do some Googling.

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I agree with T-hawk that more laws are not the solution. It just proves to become more restrictive for the U.S. citizen!
It has already been pointed out that this does not change the current situation. LEO's can already ask you to prove you are who you say you are. At that point, it is your decision as to how things will go. This will not restrict Citizens, as a Citizen will have the means to prove who they are.


Not having identification is stupid, regardless of what the laws are. I think the people that are whining about this are ridiculous. If your ID is what proves you to be a US Citizen, you should be proud of it and show it off like a fucking badge of honor.
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Old May 11th, 2010, 02:27 PM   #93
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The constitution does not grant you rights. You are born with those rights. The constitution only gives the Federal gov't the power to protect your rights from enemies both foreign and domestic.
RONG!!! One change to the Constitution and your right no longer is a right or it adds a right to which you had none in the first place... dont believe me look at the 19th Amendment
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Old May 11th, 2010, 02:40 PM   #94
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People frequently confuse the Declaration of Independence and Constitution when getting into the issue of unalienable rights.
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Old May 11th, 2010, 02:45 PM   #95
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People frequently confuse the Declaration of Independence and Constitution when getting into the issue of unalienable rights.
Citizens!!! hahahahahah!!!!
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Old May 11th, 2010, 02:56 PM   #96
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PP is right. I always carry my ID with me:
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Old May 11th, 2010, 03:12 PM   #97
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Honestly I am all for this Bill. it isn't going to change anything for us I already carry a driver license on me at all times...

but i feel its effects would only be short lived until the mex's get the copying of such an ID down pat.

the real problem is employers... cracking down on employers hiring illegal's and making them stop using day laborers is the only true way to defeat the problem. that is WHY they come here that is the way we must block them. with out a reason to come here they will not come here. or at least not so much there will still be the drug peddlers but that's only a small percentage of illegals here.
most here are day laborers sending home their earnings every week to support their families.
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Old May 11th, 2010, 04:15 PM   #98
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I just love all the bitching that goes on about the Arizona law. Complaining about people's "rights" being trampled on. A whole lot of griping from people who fall for the liberal smokescreens and don't have a clue what the bill says. Read the bill and quit bitching.

"This bill is racist". A: the bill specifically prohibits racial profiling, under penalty of prosecution; B: the bill mirrors the federal law, which means the federal law must be racist as well.

The Arizona law is not new... it just makes it mandatory to enforce the federal law.

The bill specifically states that investigation of legal status can only be done during the course of apprehension following a primary infraction, and the person in question will be turned over to the feds for them to make determination of legality, under federal law.

People's "rights" were supposedly going to be trampled on after 9/11 due to the Patriot Act...just how many people do you all know who's rights were trampled on?

People are so worried about the rights of all the illegals who invade this country, many of whom contribute to the violent crimes and drug trade that has infested the southern states. What about the rights of the innocent US citizens who fall victim to those criminals, or the families of the ranchers that have been murdered by illegals trespassing on their land?

Illegals can cross the southern border of the US in droves every day, with no impedance whatsoever, and it's OK: but as a US citizen you can't go spend an evening in Windsor and come back home without a passport or enhanced ID. What the fukc is wrong with this picture?

Get the illegals OUT. Build a wall. Build checkpoints where people can enter LEGALLY. Every other country does it.

Last edited by 3stratman; May 11th, 2010 at 08:25 PM.
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Old May 11th, 2010, 08:47 PM   #99
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RONG!!! One change to the Constitution and your right no longer is a right or it adds a right to which you had none in the first place... dont believe me look at the 19th Amendment
it is this type of thinking that has led us to the place we are today.

The truth is that you are a soverign individual who has given your consent to be governed. You have the ability to revoke that consent at any time.

Women's sufferage? I am guessing you meant the 18th amendment. How'd that work out? A large portion of the population revolted against prohibition and the law was repealed when many of the states threatened to call a constuitional convention. It's similar to today's revolt against federal pot laws.
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Old May 11th, 2010, 09:55 PM   #100
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it is this type of thinking that has led us to the place we are today.

The truth is that you are a soverign individual who has given your consent to be governed. You have the ability to revoke that consent at any time.

Women's sufferage? I am guessing you meant the 18th amendment. How'd that work out? A large portion of the population revolted against prohibition and the law was repealed when many of the states threatened to call a constuitional convention. It's similar to today's revolt against federal pot laws.

yea go ahead and do that and let us know how it works out for you in your jail cell...moron...and I meant the 19th...And after you are sitting in your cell claiming your soverinty I'll bring you and your cell mate some meth and viagra so you guys can have a real party
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