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Old May 10th, 2010, 01:45 AM   #21
Tomahawk715
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Ohhhh so now we should only worry if its areas that have to worry about it. No illegal canadians in the UP--none of them have warrants or commit crimes here. This is only Mexicans?? I'm confused.

And I dont know where you got your legal knowledge from but I do not have to carry my ID because I'm in public. You post the statue that states that. Whats the MCL that says I have to carry ID when I walk down the street and have not committed a crime or am suspected of the same. If you are committing a crime or suspected of the same thats one thing but

Per the US Supreme Court:

The Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable searches and seizures, made applicable to the States by the Fourteenth Amendment, "protects people, not places," and therefore applies as much to the citizen on the streets as well as at home or elsewhere.

Whenever a police officer accosts an individual and restrains his freedom to walk away, he has "seized" that person within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment.

Last edited by Tomahawk715; May 10th, 2010 at 01:52 AM. Reason: add info
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Old May 10th, 2010, 01:55 AM   #22
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Ohhhh so now we should only worry if its areas that have to worry about it. No illegal canadians in the UP--none of them have warrants or commit crimes here. This is only Mexicans?? I'm confused.

And I dont know where you got your legal knowledge from but I do not have to carry my ID because I'm in public. You post the statue that states that. Whats the MCL that says I have to carry ID when I walk down the street and have not committed a crime or am suspected of the same.
If You did live in a town with more then 1500 people you would . Down state You do have to have ID any time a LEO ask's you for it. It has been like that since I was a kid.

436.1705 Power of peace officer or law enforcement officer witnessing violation to stop and detain person; issuance of appearance ticket.

Sec. 705.

A peace officer or law enforcement officer described under section 201 or an inspector of the commission who witnesses a violation of section 701(1) or 703, or a local ordinance corresponding to section 701(1) or 703, may stop and detain a person and obtain satisfactory identification, seize illegally possessed alcoholic liquor, and issue an appearance ticket as prescribed in section 9c of chapter IV of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 764.9c.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 01:58 AM   #23
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If You did live in a town with more then 1500 people you would . Down state You do have to have ID any time a LEO ask's you for it.

436.1705 Power of peace officer or law enforcement officer witnessing violation to stop and detain person; issuance of appearance ticket.

Sec. 705.

A peace officer or law enforcement officer described under section 201 or an inspector of the commission who witnesses a violation of section 701(1) or 703, or a local ordinance corresponding to section 701(1) or 703, may stop and detain a person and obtain satisfactory identification, seize illegally possessed alcoholic liquor, and issue an appearance ticket as prescribed in section 9c of chapter IV of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 764.9c.
Thats when you are violating the law--not walking down the street
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Old May 10th, 2010, 02:03 AM   #24
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And I grew up in Ypsilanti--lived in Flint, Jackson, Lansing, Grand Rapids--I just happen to live in the U P now. I'm well aware of the differences between those areas and here--doesnt change the law
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Old May 10th, 2010, 02:19 AM   #25
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Without a photo id to confirm that how ya gonna know--I mean I know my brothers info--and we have same physical description.

Just dont think people who are jaywalking or dont have their seatbelt on--"who cant prove their legal status" should be carted off to jail.

Again just playing devils advocate here--I dont believe in welfare or the myriad of public programs we have.

I also believe if 100 russians a day were streaming over the bering strait there would be people screamin for the military to be sent up there to shoot them---just dont like the slope upon which we are treading.

Enforce the laws on the books--and set up a zone like they have between north and south korea--and defend it.
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Thats when you are violating the law--not walking down the street
Sound's like You need to make up Your mind.

First You say they shouldn't be able to ask for ID when giving a ticket and then just walking down the street. If the cops walk up and ask you for ID and you don't have any Your going to jail till they find out who You are .If they are asking You for ID You more then likely have done something and if not they can just make it up as they go.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 02:31 AM   #26
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Where did I say cops cant ask you for ID if your violating the law??

I said they shouldnt be toted off to jail because they cant prove their legal status.

And speaking of making up your mind--dont suppose you found that law that requires me to have ID on me at all times any time a LEO asks me for it--for no reason. You have no clue what your talking about. POST THE LAW THAT SAYS CITIZENS HAVE TO CARRY ID AT ALL TIMES.

The police cannot just walk up to you--ask for ID--and if you dont have it you go to jail until they can determine who you are.

And btw--jaywalking and seatbelt violations are civil infractions. Dont know if you will understand the significance of why I added this but

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Old May 10th, 2010, 02:46 AM   #27
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Where did I say cops cant ask you for ID if your violating the law??
It's in red in the post above.
I said they shouldnt be toted off to jail because they cant prove their legal status.

And speaking of making up your mind--dont suppose you found that law that requires me to have ID on me at all times any time a LEO asks me for it--for no reason. You have no clue what your talking about. POST THE LAW THAT SAYS CITIZENS HAVE TO CARRY ID AT ALL TIMES.

The police cannot just walk up to you--ask for ID--and if you dont have it you go to jail until they can determine who you are.
If You have id to show them it proves your status

All they have to do is say they thought you look suspicious and you have to show them. They could say you cussed , spit, dropped a cigarette butt or some other dumb law and ask for it .
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Old May 10th, 2010, 02:58 AM   #28
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Where I live now in south carolina they do road blocks and make everyone in the car show ID . They say it's to catch drunk drivers but cheak for illegals and people with warrants.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 02:59 AM   #29
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If You have id to show them it proves your status

All they have to do is say they thought you look suspicious and you have to show them. They could say you cussed , spit, dropped a cigarette butt or some other dumb law and ask for it .

Your still not getting it--I'm a LEGAL US citizen--I don't have to carry proof of that--YET--an no they cant just say I "looked suspicious" --that don't cut it--they have to be able to articulate a reasonable cause for detaining me--see the above quote from the US Supreme court.

And now your condoning LEO fabricating evidence to take away my rights--again Sieg Heil and good luck with your world. At first I was amused by your lack of knowledge regarding your rights and what the constitution and laws of this country say--now I'm a bit concerned about your willingness to give those rights away--laws like this once again punish true americans because of the deeds of those who already scoff at the laws we have. We make new gun laws every day yet criminals still posses guns--curious.

I'm going to take another look at my folded American flag, climb into bed and thank god that I live in a country where I am still free. If even for only one more day.

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Old May 10th, 2010, 03:07 AM   #30
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Your still not getting it--I'm a LEGAL US citizen--I don't have to carry proof of that--YET--an no they cant just say I "looked suspicious" --that don't cut it--they have to be able to articulate a reasonable cause for detaining me--see the above quote from the US Supreme court.

And now your condoning LEO fabricating evidence to take away my rights--again Sieg Heil and good luck with your world. At first I was amused by your lack of knowledge regarding your rights and what the constitution and laws of this country say--now I'm a bit concerned about your willingness to give those rights away--laws like this once again punish true americans because of the deeds of those who already scoff at the laws we have. We make new gun laws every day yet criminals still posses guns--curious.

I'm going to take another look at my folded American flag, climb into bed and thank god that I live in a country where I am still free. If even for only one more day.
The next time the cops ask for your ID because they want to know who You are , you tell them that and see what You get. I'm not saying it's right but thats the way it is. I've been told by LEO's that I need to carry ID since I was a kid.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 03:12 AM   #31
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I don't see whats so bad about carrying your ID on you .
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Old May 10th, 2010, 03:14 AM   #32
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OK I'm not gone yet--I'm not saying its bad--and I believe that we should support LEO and everything they do--but I cant agree with forcing me to carry my ID by force....the real irony of all this is you and I only want one thing--actually the same thing--A better America for Americans--

"The greatest tyrannies are always perpetrated in the name of the noblest causes." -- Thomas Paine

"Free government is founded in jealousy, not confidence. It is jealousy and not confidence which prescribes limited constitutions, to bind those we are obliged to trust with power.... In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in men, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution." -- Thomas Jefferson, 1799

"No man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation." -- General Douglas MacArthur

"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty." -- John Adams, 1772
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Old May 10th, 2010, 06:43 AM   #33
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Seriously dude. I don't think you're going to have a problem with being forced to show your I.D. Unless you're either spouting off in a deep Canadian accent, dancing around a sumbrero, or wearing a towel on your head with some wires hanging of it.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 09:20 AM   #34
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Agreed it should be a law in each state and thin out the illegals
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Old May 10th, 2010, 09:27 AM   #35
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Fuck illegals.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 09:42 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomahawk715 View Post
Your still not getting it--I'm a LEGAL US citizen--I don't have to carry proof of that--YET--an no they cant just say I "looked suspicious" --that don't cut it--they have to be able to articulate a reasonable cause for detaining me--see the above quote from the US Supreme court.

And now your condoning LEO fabricating evidence to take away my rights--again Sieg Heil and good luck with your world. At first I was amused by your lack of knowledge regarding your rights and what the constitution and laws of this country say--now I'm a bit concerned about your willingness to give those rights away--laws like this once again punish true americans because of the deeds of those who already scoff at the laws we have. We make new gun laws every day yet criminals still posses guns--curious.

I'm going to take another look at my folded American flag, climb into bed and thank god that I live in a country where I am still free. If even for only one more day.
You do know, that with over 10,000 Federal, State, and Local Laws/Ordinances on the books that you can reasonably be found guilty of SOMETHING without resorting to fabricating evidence?

While I agree that we need to step up efforts at defending our borders, I am curious how you would propose going about cleaning up the 12 million or so current illegals we have on our streets, committing murders, kidnappings, drug crime, etc. without an ID Requirement.

We are a global economy now, and we have HUGE unprotected borders. In this day and age it is reasonable to expect a person to carry some form of ID, be it driver's license, state issued ID Card or passport if for no other reason than to expedite investigations or notify next of kin...

Imagine if every traffic stop, or loitering case turned into a 45 minute transport + identification investigation scenario...

Make no mistake, I am no more a fan of the Feds possessing, tracking and data-mining personal information than the next guy - and quite honestly at times would relish going "off the grid" but I am just as much of a fan of seeing MS13 gangs rounded up and taken off of our streets, and NOT paying for illegals to suckle at the tit of the US' Socialized Entitlement programs.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 09:54 AM   #37
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Lol
Carry your I.D.
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Old May 10th, 2010, 10:19 AM   #38
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awesome. I'm all for it.
Me too!
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Old May 10th, 2010, 10:37 AM   #39
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MICHIGAN: First line of defense against Canada!!
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Old May 10th, 2010, 11:07 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomahawk715 View Post
Where did I say cops cant ask you for ID if your violating the law??

I said they shouldnt be toted off to jail because they cant prove their legal status.

And speaking of making up your mind--dont suppose you found that law that requires me to have ID on me at all times any time a LEO asks me for it--for no reason. You have no clue what your talking about. POST THE LAW THAT SAYS CITIZENS HAVE TO CARRY ID AT ALL TIMES.

The police cannot just walk up to you--ask for ID
--and if you dont have it you go to jail until they can determine who you are.

And btw--jaywalking and seatbelt violations are civil infractions. Dont know if you will understand the significance of why I added this but
they most certaintaly can
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