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Old April 29th, 2010, 06:34 PM   #41
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It's impossible to prove if something was inspired by God or not. That fact has not been proven time and time agian.
It hasn't been proven that it is impossible to prove that God inspired the bible?? Have you read even the first chapter? There are more contradictions in the bible than there were in the OJ Simpson trial. If you can find a shred of proof that God inspired the bible, please share - the world awaits. And I'm not anti-religion, I just question everything.

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The Events were written down after a generation or two, that is true, However you also have to realize that thier culture was more verbal so they remembered things better. A Game of Telephone would not go the same way as it does now.
Be honest, you just made that up, right?

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It was, technically, the Catholic church that decided which books get in. However, there were no other kind of churches then. Nor were they the Entity they are now. It wasn't just "How bout this one George?", They had strict guidelines as to what made it to make sure the message of Christ was Efficiently told.
Again, you just made this up, right? Who do you suppose made up these strict guidelines?

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The other texts are very accessible now a days.
Then you bring them over, we'll drink as much beer as we can find, and we'll decide which ones should have been added/omitted. I'll buy!



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The bible is not changed contextually. It's translated differently but the same message is there. Most Translations that have been done in the recent years have been direct from close to the Original Text, Just made to be understood in english.
If the bible has not changed contextually, it must be alright to own slaves (or at least to have a bunch of people that do your work for free with no option to quit). I'm not interested, but there a lot of hillbillies here that will love to know that!

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The Slave analogy is because back then, They used the word slave in a different way. It doesn't mean a Man or woman of African Decent. It also doesn't imply the way Americans treated slaves.
That's not possible, people didn't change their stories the way we do now - you taught me that, and you also implied that the bible stories were inspired by God and cannot be wrong.

History Lesson : The first records of slavery were kept by the Nordic people. As they conquered villages they sold the healthy people to the wealthy people in northern AFRICA - AFRICANS.

The word "slave" has no racial requirement and the only slaves commonly known about and accepted today are in AFRICA right now, and they are black people (oddly and impossibly for apologists, they weren't even sold by white people).

At the end of the day, slaves were upaid servants with no rights or ability to leave their masters.



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Dinosaurs are referenced in the bible many times.
Not possible - several major religions who rely on the bible for their foundation claim that dinosaurs are a contrived creature made up my scientists to defame God. Oh CRAP, here goes that interpretation thing again.
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Old April 29th, 2010, 09:10 PM   #42
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It hasn't been proven that it is impossible to prove that God inspired the bible?? Have you read even the first chapter? There are more contradictions in the bible than there were in the OJ Simpson trial. If you can find a shred of proof that God inspired the bible, please share - the world awaits. And I'm not anti-religion, I just question everything.
I don't need to show you where it doesn't contradict. You need to show ME where it DOES. I've read the whole bible, cover to cover. I've studied a good number of the books. I've attended Bible studies with other believers on a Good portion of the New testament and even some of the more commonly known OT books.

If you really do try and understand how the bible works, It doesn't contradict it's self. I have a good understanding of it because I've been studying it for as long as I have. Weather you want to except the Truth about what I'm saying is you're problem. You need to show me where it contradicts it self.



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Be honest, you just made that up, right?



Again, you just made this up, right? Who do you suppose made up these strict guidelines?
No, The Bible has some of the closest texts to the actual time of all "historical" books. Not to mention the largest number of Texts found from the past. Think about it this way. 10 years ago people remebered your phone number. Do they now? No, They put it in thier cell phone. Before written text, People had better memories. They had no choice. Makes sense to me.

No, That's church history. Not just from a church perspective, but from a historical Perspective. I learned that in my Civilizations class in SCHOOL. And Yes, They made up those guidlines because that's what I was implying when I said, "They had to follow strict guidlines".


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Then you bring them over, we'll drink as much beer as we can find, and we'll decide which ones should have been added/omitted. I'll buy!
I didn't mean I have them on my book shelf. You made it sound like if they got out the bible would be completely different. I guarantee you that it would not be; because they are not hidden in a Vault in the Vatican. Most biblical Scholars will actually use them to get more Context from the time so they can more fully understand what the authors of the Biblical books meant.



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If the bible has not changed contextually, it must be alright to own slaves (or at least to have a bunch of people that do your work for free with no option to quit). I'm not interested, but there a lot of hillbillies here that will love to know that!

That's not possible, people didn't change their stories the way we do now - you taught me that, and you also implied that the bible stories were inspired by God and cannot be wrong.

History Lesson : The first records of slavery were kept by the Nordic people. As they conquered villages they sold the healthy people to the wealthy people in northern AFRICA - AFRICANS.

The word "slave" has no racial requirement and the only slaves commonly known about and accepted today are in AFRICA right now, and they are black people (oddly and impossibly for apologists, they weren't even sold by white people).

At the end of the day, slaves were upaid servants with no rights or ability to leave their masters.
Where in the bible does it call a Slave an African? One example I'm thinking of are the Jews. The Hebrew people. They were slaves. Last time I checked, they weren't Black. Also, It wasn't ok for them to be in slavery, that's why God allowed for them to be released from Pharaoh. Any part of the bible that talks about slaves, as far as ownership by believers, is talking about treating them right. Not abusing them.

Also, You HAVE to realize that slaves were something that was around back then. We don't have wars over territories anymore either, Much. But I suppose because it's mentioned in the bible often that the bible Promotes war? It doesn't promote it, nor does it rebuke it. If anything it teaches us to live at peace when we can but war is something of life. It happens.

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Not possible - several major religions who rely on the bible for their foundation claim that dinosaurs are a contrived creature made up my scientists to defame God. Oh CRAP, here goes that interpretation thing again.
In that reasoning any animal that WASN'T mentioned in the bible was made up by scientists. There are Mentions of great Sea creatures and Great Beasts. Who's not to say they aren't dinosaurs?

I would be interested in what Religions your talking about. Really. A website or a name would interest me.
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Old April 30th, 2010, 12:28 AM   #43
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Well, an article from the sun certainly changes everything. The next story from the onion will turn me into a very liberal democrat
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Old April 30th, 2010, 08:17 AM   #44
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Well, an article from the sun certainly changes everything. The next story from the onion will turn me into a very liberal democrat
You were a very liberal democrat before the story, I'm sure you had your mind made up earlier in your life. People don't just wake up one day and become liberal. I think it takes years of believing in one thing or how thinking things should be done.
Or mom and dad voted democrat and I'll vote democrat
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Old April 30th, 2010, 08:46 AM   #45
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You were a very liberal democrat before the story, I'm sure you had your mind made up earlier in your life. People don't just wake up one day and become liberal. I think it takes years of believing in one thing or how thinking things should be done.
Or mom and dad voted democrat and I'll vote democrat
almost like religious beliefs...
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Old April 30th, 2010, 09:25 AM   #46
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You were a very liberal democrat before the story, I'm sure you had your mind made up earlier in your life. People don't just wake up one day and become liberal. I think it takes years of believing in one thing or how thinking things should be done.
Or mom and dad voted democrat and I'll vote democrat
I was? Weird. I vote for my opinion, not party lines, but that happens to have been republican for the last good while. I have an open mind, try it sometime.
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Old April 30th, 2010, 09:34 AM   #47
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I was? Weird. I vote for my opinion, not party lines, but that happens to have been republican for the last good while. I have an open mind, try it sometime.
Don't mind Aber61, he's not too savvy. He didn't get your sarcasm.
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Old April 30th, 2010, 03:32 PM   #48
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I was? Weird. I vote for my opinion, not party lines, but that happens to have been republican for the last good while. I have an open mind, try it sometime.
Ok I get it now the sun paper and thier articles they publish would turn you into a liberal democrat. I have to thank a liberal (mike) for that. You don't need an open mind to vote republican just common sence.
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Old April 30th, 2010, 03:34 PM   #49
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Don't mind Aber61, he's not too savvy. He didn't get your sarcasm.
Thanks Mike, I had to go to work today and think about it, but I got.
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 03:25 PM   #50
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One of the reasons that I heard as to why not all the books were used is because they were written to many generations past the time of actual witnesses of the accounts of what actually happened. The gosples that were not used were not credibly according to the people choosing which books to use.

I'm bored so I'll ask, does this mean that God's inspiration has a shelf life? God isn't capable of inspiring writings 200 or 2000 years later? Interesting.
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 03:37 PM   #51
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L4CX, everything you've stated is based on faith, not factual evidence. That's not a bad thing and I can't prove you wrong - you just can't prove that you're right either. That's my overall point I guess. There is no way possible to prove that the bible was inspired by God any more than it was inspired by a bunch of dorks who couldn't land wives so they bonded together and came up with a great story. Kind of like Dungeons and Dragons geeks a few years back.
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 03:48 PM   #52
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Kind of like Dungeons and Dragons geeks a few years back.
Actually they are still very prevalent. My wifes girl friend goes out with her often cuz her husband(middle 40's) is having a gathering.

oh and my .02
Jesus existed. God was an alien. The world will end, but not by the alien. Be good to each other in the mean time.
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 07:37 PM   #53
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L4CX, everything you've stated is based on faith, not factual evidence. That's not a bad thing and I can't prove you wrong - you just can't prove that you're right either. That's my overall point I guess. There is no way possible to prove that the bible was inspired by God any more than it was inspired by a bunch of dorks who couldn't land wives so they bonded together and came up with a great story. Kind of like Dungeons and Dragons geeks a few years back.
Alot of the things I have said are Historically Accurate. There is a Number of things that I have specifically said "I only Hope". Like if the people choosing the books motives were good or not. It is written Historical Fact that they had the "meeting" to decide those books and they had guidelines. I, and many biblical Scholars, agree that what ever Jesus was, He changed the way alot of people think. In a Good way. That's Undeniable.

On another note, It's Speculated that some disciples had wives after Jesus Left. Paul actually Encouraged it in 1 Corinthians 7. He said " If you can't keep it in your pants, Get married" (L4CX's Paraphrase ).

I'm agreeing with you that I can't prove certain things but not EVERYTHING I've said is based on faith. Alot of it is Accepted History. Biblical or not.
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 08:27 PM   #54
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i have a hard time beleinving in a religion based on "truth" when it's two most holy of holidays are counterfiets.. it's been proven that a man names jesus christ lived.. and told stories abouit god and such... so much of tht is fact.. odd part is it's also been proven that he was not born on december 25th.. BUT.. december 25th happened to the the pagan holiday for the birth of one of it;s prominent gods (sun god if i rememebr correctly) so the roman catholic church in an effort to "cover up" this holy pagan holiday made up christmas as the birthday of christ.. yet it's been proven this was not teh tiem of christs birth and that he was most likely born in the spring...

easter is also a fake holiday... the bible mentions easter one time.. but when you cross refernece this word with greek there is actaully not a word for passover in greek.. so this holiday took the name of the pagan fertility god eastre.. her symbolistic animal just so happneed to be a hare (rabbit) and the egg has long been a symbol identitfied with fertility.. see the problem was that again teh roman catholic church was tryign to cover up a pagan holy day.. and at teh same time stop "christians" form celebrating the jewish passover.. because for years after christ death the christians were still celebration passover... which in itself makes no sense... i know i'm off topic from the original topic a bit... so a religion based on "truth" has laid much of it's foundation on lies.

as for the dinosaur issue.. christinas only beleive in carbon dating when is supports their ideals.. when it doens't as in the case of dinosaur bones it's inaccurate.. the "great flood" did happen.. which is why the oldest tree on the earth dates back to about 4000 years ago.. was there a big ark with a bunch of animals on it? HELL NO.. BUT it;s a good story to tell the kiddies.. kinda like a big pagan rabbit jumping around bring the eggs in a fuckin basket... my ex GF was a super christian (well on sunday mornign and when it was beneficial for her i guess.. HA HA) and we'd go round and round for hours about her "religion" and "beliefs". youi'll find that christians in general are people with an addictive personality... why do so many drunks, coke addicts, reformed crack heads etc. turn to god? easy... it;s a shift of addiction.. peopel with addictiver personalities have to have an addiction in thier life.. they never actually shake addiction as a whole. so they shift their addiction to somethign less physically detrimental... for that it works.. and i dont; care about others beleifs... as long as they don't push thier shit on me..
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 08:51 PM   #55
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i have a hard time beleinving in a religion based on "truth" when it's two most holy of holidays are counterfiets.. it's been proven that a man names jesus christ lived.. and told stories abouit god and such... so much of tht is fact.. odd part is it's also been proven that he was not born on december 25th.. BUT.. december 25th happened to the the pagan holiday for the birth of one of it;s prominent gods (sun god if i rememebr correctly) so the roman catholic church in an effort to "cover up" this holy pagan holiday made up christmas as the birthday of christ.. yet it's been proven this was not teh tiem of christs birth and that he was most likely born in the spring...

easter is also a fake holiday... the bible mentions easter one time.. but when you cross refernece this word with greek there is actaully not a word for passover in greek.. so this holiday took the name of the pagan fertility god eastre.. her symbolistic animal just so happneed to be a hare (rabbit) and the egg has long been a symbol identitfied with fertility.. see the problem was that again teh roman catholic church was tryign to cover up a pagan holy day.. and at teh same time stop "christians" form celebrating the jewish passover.. because for years after christ death the christians were still celebration passover... which in itself makes no sense... i know i'm off topic from the original topic a bit... so a religion based on "truth" has laid much of it's foundation on lies.

as for the dinosaur issue.. christinas only beleive in carbon dating when is supports their ideals.. when it doens't as in the case of dinosaur bones it's inaccurate.. the "great flood" did happen.. which is why the oldest tree on the earth dates back to about 4000 years ago.. was there a big ark with a bunch of animals on it? HELL NO.. BUT it;s a good story to tell the kiddies.. kinda like a big pagan rabbit jumping around bring the eggs in a fuckin basket... my ex GF was a super christian (well on sunday mornign and when it was beneficial for her i guess.. HA HA) and we'd go round and round for hours about her "religion" and "beliefs". youi'll find that christians in general are people with an addictive personality... why do so many drunks, coke addicts, reformed crack heads etc. turn to god? easy... it;s a shift of addiction.. peopel with addictiver personalities have to have an addiction in thier life.. they never actually shake addiction as a whole. so they shift their addiction to somethign less physically detrimental... for that it works.. and i dont; care about others beleifs... as long as they don't push thier shit on me..
As for Christmas and Easter they were a pagen hoilday at one time and Christianity took it over and made it a good hoilday to celebrate Jesus, His birth and resurection. It happened, who knows exactly when but it is a celebration for Christ. Not a lie as you see it. Does the exact time frame mean so much to you? Lets not split hairs.
Try and cross reference the word in Hebrew and as for the rabbit and easter eggs, thats a marketing ploy to make money for the big companies.
Christianity is truth and was built on the rock, a soild foundation that will withstand the test of time. Your opinion will not change facts about Christ.
As for the dinosaurs, I don't think they carbon date the bones themselves they date the rock that they were found around. Did you know that the rocks from Mt St. Helens volcano erutption were carbon dated to be 4. some million years old and we all know that Mt St Helens blew its top in 1980??
As for Christians being addicted to God You Bet. I'd rather be addicted to God than the alternative:)
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 09:31 PM   #56
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i have a hard time beleinving in a religion based on "truth" when it's two most holy of holidays are counterfiets.. it's been proven that a man names jesus christ lived.. and told stories abouit god and such... so much of tht is fact.. odd part is it's also been proven that he was not born on december 25th.. BUT.. december 25th happened to the the pagan holiday for the birth of one of it;s prominent gods (sun god if i rememebr correctly) so the roman catholic church in an effort to "cover up" this holy pagan holiday made up christmas as the birthday of christ.. yet it's been proven this was not teh tiem of christs birth and that he was most likely born in the spring...

easter is also a fake holiday... the bible mentions easter one time.. but when you cross refernece this word with greek there is actaully not a word for passover in greek.. so this holiday took the name of the pagan fertility god eastre.. her symbolistic animal just so happneed to be a hare (rabbit) and the egg has long been a symbol identitfied with fertility.. see the problem was that again teh roman catholic church was tryign to cover up a pagan holy day.. and at teh same time stop "christians" form celebrating the jewish passover.. because for years after christ death the christians were still celebration passover... which in itself makes no sense... i know i'm off topic from the original topic a bit... so a religion based on "truth" has laid much of it's foundation on lies.
You are very true, up intill your last sentence. The Events "Christmas" and "Easter" are simply when Christians Decide to Celebrate those events. To go with that, The two events should not be celebrated just once a year but every day should remind us of what Christ did for us.

These two Celebrations being on Dates other then when they actually happened does not change the Gospel Story one bit. In 2000 years people could look at Christian Music in the exact same way. For those that don't know, Christian Music is often used to try and bring the message of Christ to the Youth of the nation. (POD Song Pun NOT Intended). To make the Message more appealing. What better way to make something more appealing then to set it's two major celebrations on days of other Holidays?

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as for the dinosaur issue.. christinas only beleive in carbon dating when is supports their ideals.. when it doens't as in the case of dinosaur bones it's inaccurate.. the "great flood" did happen.. which is why the oldest tree on the earth dates back to about 4000 years ago.. was there a big ark with a bunch of animals on it? HELL NO.. BUT it;s a good story to tell the kiddies.. kinda like a big pagan rabbit jumping around bring the eggs in a fuckin basket... my ex GF was a super christian (well on sunday mornign and when it was beneficial for her i guess.. HA HA) and we'd go round and round for hours about her "religion" and "beliefs".
I don't accept the form of carbon Dating AT ALL. If that makes you feel better.

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youi'll find that christians in general are people with an addictive personality... why do so many drunks, coke addicts, reformed crack heads etc. turn to god? easy... it;s a shift of addiction.. peopel with addictiver personalities have to have an addiction in thier life.. they never actually shake addiction as a whole. so they shift their addiction to somethign less physically detrimental... for that it works.. and i dont; care about others beleifs... as long as they don't push thier shit on me..
All of us have some form of Addiction. It's in our nature. You'd be a Liar to tell me you know people that don't. Christ Can Change anybodies heart, the fact that alot of them are extremely addicted people shows that he doesn't give up on them. That they've been to the bottom and the only thing they see at the end is Christ.

I can also tell you that the addiction does not go away magically when you become a Christian. I still struggle with my addictions to this day and have been a stand alone Christian (Apart from my parents beliefs) for 7 years. I get what you're saying, I just don't think it's right. I would know, I've had Personal faith in Christ for 7 years, I've been in the church for 25. My Dad's a Pastor. And Before you right me off as Brainwashed, realize that I'm willing to talk. A man who voices his opinions and does not listen to others is a fool. I've lived away from my parents for 7 years, If I didn't want to believe, I wouldn't.

You probably see Christians as people using a Crutch. They can't do it by themselves so they need some form of comfort or strength. The Crutch is real, but needed. The reason you see so many people that are addicted come to Christ is because they have tried to use those addictions as that crutch. They've realized it's pointless and God finds them and gives them the Crutch they really need.

This is the first time I've responded to a post of yours and would like to say welcome and that I'm not meaning to sound mad or mean or condescending. I'm just trying to have a Conversation. If you would like to join, Be my guest.
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 10:37 PM   #57
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i have a hard time beleinving in a religion based on "truth" when it's two most holy of holidays are counterfiets.. it's been proven that a man names jesus christ lived.. and told stories abouit god and such... so much of tht is fact.. odd part is it's also been proven that he was not born on december 25th.. BUT.. december 25th happened to the the pagan holiday for the birth of one of it;s prominent gods (sun god if i rememebr correctly) so the roman catholic church in an effort to "cover up" this holy pagan holiday made up christmas as the birthday of christ.. yet it's been proven this was not teh tiem of christs birth and that he was most likely born in the spring...

easter is also a fake holiday... the bible mentions easter one time.. but when you cross refernece this word with greek there is actaully not a word for passover in greek.. so this holiday took the name of the pagan fertility god eastre.. her symbolistic animal just so happneed to be a hare (rabbit) and the egg has long been a symbol identitfied with fertility.. see the problem was that again teh roman catholic church was tryign to cover up a pagan holy day.. and at teh same time stop "christians" form celebrating the jewish passover.. because for years after christ death the christians were still celebration passover... which in itself makes no sense... i know i'm off topic from the original topic a bit... so a religion based on "truth" has laid much of it's foundation on lies.

as for the dinosaur issue.. christinas only beleive in carbon dating when is supports their ideals.. when it doens't as in the case of dinosaur bones it's inaccurate.. the "great flood" did happen.. which is why the oldest tree on the earth dates back to about 4000 years ago.. was there a big ark with a bunch of animals on it? HELL NO.. BUT it;s a good story to tell the kiddies.. kinda like a big pagan rabbit jumping around bring the eggs in a fuckin basket... my ex GF was a super christian (well on sunday mornign and when it was beneficial for her i guess.. HA HA) and we'd go round and round for hours about her "religion" and "beliefs". youi'll find that christians in general are people with an addictive personality... why do so many drunks, coke addicts, reformed crack heads etc. turn to god? easy... it;s a shift of addiction.. peopel with addictiver personalities have to have an addiction in thier life.. they never actually shake addiction as a whole. so they shift their addiction to somethign less physically detrimental... for that it works.. and i dont; care about others beleifs... as long as they don't push thier shit on me..
Hi, welcome to our little religious debate club. You will find that logic and reason have no place here. See ya in the next thread.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 12:17 AM   #58
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well lets see my birthday is aug 4th.... so i'm gonna celebrate it on jan 21st... who wants to come bring me a present? and IF i was married maybe i'll just tell my wife that since i forgot the actual date we'll just celebrate our aniversary whenever i see fit? the later would make me an asshole in everyones eyes.... BUT i if wrote a book full of easily adaptable vauge often misrepresented storire then that makes it ok? theres another thing i've learned abouit christians... logic, common sense, and scenitic method mean nothing..... well until it supports thier argument.. as for the mt. st helens thing.. i guess thats relative to what you believe.. the actaul makeup of that rock youi say was formed in 1980.. was around long before 1980.. but in liquid form.. carbon dating knows no form... it doesnt; differentaite between solid of liquid.. and for that matter.. i don't see thee being alot fo carbon in that rock... carbon is somethign that in a LIVING being.. not a rock..... every living being has traces of carbon in it.. you. me. your dog. your aunts cat etc... and it's half life is liek any elements half life.. at a certain point it's halved.. so by measureing how much carbon is in the remins of that living organism you can multiply how many times that carbon has been halved and you get a window of time in which that organism was alive... the carbon doesn't start it's deterioration until that organism dies.. heres a little link for you air spirit worshipers to read.... dont; tell your local god salesmen.. uuhhh i mean preachers that you read how carbon dating actaully works.. they might not let you in on the next koombiya session as punishment for being "elightened" be science.. after all id god created "everything" on the earth and his divine knowledge put these elements in a living organism then why do christians denouce this proven method of determining the date in which a living organism dies?

http://science.howstuffworks.com/carbon-142.htm
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 12:37 PM   #59
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As for Christmas and Easter they were a pagen hoilday at one time and Christianity took it over and made it a good hoilday to celebrate Jesus, His birth and resurection. It happened, who knows exactly when but it is a celebration for Christ. Not a lie as you see it. Does the exact time frame mean so much to you? Lets not split hairs.
Try and cross reference the word in Hebrew and as for the rabbit and easter eggs, thats a marketing ploy to make money for the big companies.
Christianity is truth and was built on the rock, a soild foundation that will withstand the test of time. Your opinion will not change facts about Christ.
As for the dinosaurs, I don't think they carbon date the bones themselves they date the rock that they were found around. Did you know that the rocks from Mt St. Helens volcano erutption were carbon dated to be 4. some million years old and we all know that Mt St Helens blew its top in 1980??
As for Christians being addicted to God You Bet. I'd rather be addicted to God than the alternative:)
Do You really believe this stuff or are You just a real good troll?
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 01:12 PM   #60
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well lets see my birthday is aug 4th.... so i'm gonna celebrate it on jan 21st... who wants to come bring me a present? and IF i was married maybe i'll just tell my wife that since i forgot the actual date we'll just celebrate our aniversary whenever i see fit? the later would make me an asshole in everyones eyes.... BUT i if wrote a book full of easily adaptable vauge often misrepresented storire then that makes it ok?
If you're wife and you (the two people the event means the most too) wanted to celebrate your aniversary on a different date then I don't see why not. Once agian, It's not about celebrating that specific date but what that event means. Do you feel the same way about a Birthday if it's celebrated a week later because the family couldn't get together the week prior?

Here's a little Fact that you probably don't know about alot of Christians. Some don't choose to celebrate Christmas like you think they do. No presents, nothing. They just get together and have good Fellowship. My Family is slowly getting there because we realize that "Christmas" is not longer about Christ but about the Commercial value it brings to the stores.

Quote:
theres another thing i've learned abouit christians... logic, common sense, and scenitic method mean nothing..... well until it supports thier argument.. as for the mt. st helens thing.. i guess thats relative to what you believe.. the actaul makeup of that rock youi say was formed in 1980.. was around long before 1980.. but in liquid form.. carbon dating knows no form... it doesnt; differentaite between solid of liquid.. and for that matter.. i don't see thee being alot fo carbon in that rock... carbon is somethign that in a LIVING being.. not a rock..... every living being has traces of carbon in it.. you. me. your dog. your aunts cat etc... and it's half life is liek any elements half life.. at a certain point it's halved.. so by measureing how much carbon is in the remins of that living organism you can multiply how many times that carbon has been halved and you get a window of time in which that organism was alive... the carbon doesn't start it's deterioration until that organism dies..
Thanks, I think you're find, as well, that your assumption about Christians in this matter is not true. Sure, there are plenty out there that reject Science and all that it has to offer. MOST, however, except Science just as much as you do. There are even some who , Gasp!, Believe in Macro-Evolution. Science is not the Enemy of most Christians. It's defiantly not for me, or any of my other Christian Friends. Which, I may add, are Primarily MSU students who are well educated and even a Handful of those are Biology majors. Better known as "Evolution Majors" Because that's about all they teach (Which makes sense from an Education viewpoint).

Me, and many other Christians, Viewpoint is that Science was Originally desinged to glorify God. There is a Verse that talks about God's Unseen nature being in his Creation. His Characteristics are made evident in his Creation. So, To learn more about God someone should study the Physical Characteristics of this world. Sounds like a Scientist to me. The Earliest Scientists were "Air Spirit Worshipers" (As you put it). When in all actuality, the Spirit of the Air is Satan. So no, We're not. We're worshipers of the almighty God.

There are also many Theologians that think that the Writers of the Genesis story were the First Scientists that Wrote down what they thought happened from the Observations they made and what they heard from other people.

Quote:
heres a little link for you air spirit worshipers to read.... dont; tell your local god salesmen.. uuhhh i mean preachers that you read how carbon dating actaully works.. they might not let you in on the next koombiya session as punishment for being "elightened" be science.. after all id god created "everything" on the earth and his divine knowledge put these elements in a living organism then why do christians denouce this proven method of determining the date in which a living organism dies?

http://science.howstuffworks.com/carbon-142.htm
I think You'll find that most "God Salesmen" are very willing to talk to anybody and let anybody into thier church. Free of Charge. . My dad Loves to talk to people about these kinds of Subjects and would be thrilled if someone came and talked to him. Most Pastors share this Mentality. In Romans 12 it talks about Renewing our minds, That means not just listening to the Pastor and following blindly what he says. In essence, I'm tell you that your assumption on to how The Church feels about Science is Simply wrong; But I'm not surprised that you have it. It's easy to believe Sterotypes.

On the note of Carbon Dating, It has to go by the fact that our Elements have always Reacted the same way they do now. That the universe (for which we have a Minuscule Perspective on) is exactly as we see it and has never been different. Who's Delusional now?
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