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Old April 10th, 2010, 09:44 AM   #1
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"MONTCOAL, W.Va. Searchers found four bodies deep in a West Virginia coal mine shattered by an explosion, raising the death toll to 29 and ending an excruciating week for families holding onto faint hopes that their missing miners had somehow survived.

Crews are to soon begin the bleak task of carrying out 22 bodies from Massey Energy Co.'s Upper Big Branch mine, though officials said Saturday no timetable has been set. Seven bodies had already been removed soon after Monday's blast, making it the worst U.S. coal mining disaster since a 1970 explosion killed 38 in Hyden, Ky.

The investigation into the company that has an extensive list of safety violations at the mine also will begin with President Barack Obama wanting some answers in a report next week and Congress planning hearings."


Corporate Personhood... This is another good reason why corporations should not be treated as "legal persons"... Because they cannot be imprisoned for their crimes. Not to mention the fact they can change their identity at will, and are immortal. The only human beings that will suffer for these crimes are the families of the victims. Shame on all of you that defend them.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 12:47 PM   #2
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So you believe no one will be held accountable and government control is the answer?

You're a moron.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 01:21 PM   #3
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so you believe no one will be held accountable and government control is the answer?

You're a moron.
x2
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Old April 10th, 2010, 01:33 PM   #4
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... Because they cannot be imprisoned for their crimes. Not to mention the fact they can change their identity at will, and are immortal.

Sounds a lot like our current government.....the very one you think should be in charge. Also, please tell me the last time the Obama administration was held accountable for something that had gone wrong. And no, this doesn't have anything to do with Bush, so don't bring it up.

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Old April 10th, 2010, 01:49 PM   #5
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AGB is a fucking douchebag.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 01:58 PM   #6
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So you believe no one will be held accountable and government control is the answer?

You're a moron.
X3 + :facepalm:
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Old April 10th, 2010, 05:14 PM   #7
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"MONTCOAL, W.Va. Searchers found four bodies deep in a West Virginia coal mine shattered by an explosion, raising the death toll to 29 and ending an excruciating week for families holding onto faint hopes that their missing miners had somehow survived.

Crews are to soon begin the bleak task of carrying out 22 bodies from Massey Energy Co.'s Upper Big Branch mine, though officials said Saturday no timetable has been set. Seven bodies had already been removed soon after Monday's blast, making it the worst U.S. coal mining disaster since a 1970 explosion killed 38 in Hyden, Ky.

The investigation into the company that has an extensive list of safety violations at the mine also will begin with President Barack Obama wanting some answers in a report next week and Congress planning hearings."


Corporate Personhood... This is another good reason why corporations should not be treated as "legal persons"... Because they cannot be imprisoned for their crimes. Not to mention the fact they can change their identity at will, and are immortal. The only human beings that will suffer for these crimes are the families of the victims. Shame on all of you that defend them.

You're entitle to your opinion on Corporations, but you have no clue what you're talking about when it comes to coal mining.
You can go ahead and zing through the internet and get what you think is information, but you still have no idea on that particular profession and you never will.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 08:33 AM   #8
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Again trying to eke understanding out of AGB's threads - I believe he is angry that the deaths have resulted from lax or even nonexistent safety guidelines - ones that may have prevented this tragedy.
Further, I think he is saying he believes the company (who is responsible for said safety protocol) will get a "slap on the wrist" for not following them and then continue to run hazardous operations.

I saw nothing about government control in his post.

I would have to agree on his assessment. Nothing like the production and chest-thumping with the recent Toyota fiasco, but more like some enforceable and standardized guidelines for companies to follow - and get busted for when they're not.

Maybe Stan was implying the only way those rules would be enforced would be from a new government branch, like we already have for nukes? (NRC)
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Old April 11th, 2010, 08:38 AM   #9
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You're entitle to your opinion on Corporations, but you have no clue what you're talking about when it comes to coal mining.
You can go ahead and zing through the internet and get what you think is information, but you still have no idea on that particular profession and you never will.
Let me tell ya - I know NOTHING about the coal industry, but I have been to Hyden KY (mentioned in the article) and have seen the area firsthand.

What I saw was an impoverished area that depends on the coal mines for income - and the mine operations we drove by looked to be old and possibly didn't take worker safety into account. I don't know if this is because there is such a tiny profit margin in running a coal mine, or if it is corporate "baddies" pulling so much money off at the top, there's only enough money left to keep the mines operating at a minimum level of safety.

(?)
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Old April 11th, 2010, 08:43 AM   #10
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Let me tell ya - I know NOTHING about the coal industry, but I have been to Hyden KY (mentioned in the article) and have seen the area firsthand.

What I saw was an impoverished area that depends on the coal mines for income - and the mine operations we drove by looked to be old and possibly didn't take worker safety into account. I don't know if this is because there is such a tiny profit margin in running a coal mine, or if it is corporate "baddies" pulling so much money off at the top, there's only enough money left to keep the mines operating at a minimum level of safety.

(?)
Welcome to the world of "Hard labor". I have seen some shit in the oilfield that would make a OSHA inspector shit his drawers.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 09:56 AM   #11
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Welcome to the world of "Hard labor". I have seen some shit in the oilfield that would make a OSHA inspector shit his drawers.
and the point of the OP is just that.

Not being safe, continues daily and their is a overall expectation to break these rules by almost all occupations at every level.

Is more government, the answer ...no. But fixing the busted departments, their authoritative power and their enforcement is.

When a company is caught by OSHA for infractions and they cost 2mill for the fine, then its negotiated down to 100k, thats where it's broke.

The company's will never take it seriously, because they know at the end of the day, The "natural good will" of people always want to get the "job" done. To also include the peer pressure of being a whistle blower.

You can act all mean , big and scary,until you see the guy next to you fry, fall , etc....die. Because 1 hour safety training sessions every 3 months don't produce anything, when the harnesses and equipment are all 2 years past their expiraton date or time constraints blatantly blow safety regulations out of the water.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 09:08 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Again trying to eke understanding out of AGB's threads - I believe he is angry that the deaths have resulted from lax or even nonexistent safety guidelines - ones that may have prevented this tragedy.
Further, I think he is saying he believes the company (who is responsible for said safety protocol) will get a "slap on the wrist" for not following them and then continue to run hazardous operations.

I saw nothing about government control in his post.

I would have to agree on his assessment. Nothing like the production and chest-thumping with the recent Toyota fiasco, but more like some enforceable and standardized guidelines for companies to follow - and get busted for when they're not.
I didn't take AGB's post here to have anything to do with Government either, other than that the Government was now going to get involved.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 09:22 AM   #13
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Corporate Personhood... This is another good reason why corporations should not be treated as "legal persons"... Because they cannot be imprisoned for their crimes. Not to mention the fact they can change their identity at will, and are immortal. The only human beings that will suffer for these crimes are the families of the victims. Shame on all of you that defend them.
Counterpoint. How does making anyone else pay for, or "suffer" for the event help anything? It won't bring the dead back. Drawing from the recidivism rate in our prison system, harsh penalties do not act as a deterrent either.

As for defending the legality of corporate organization, it can also protect individuals and/or their assets from frivoulous and bullshit lawsuits as well. Not to mention expedite probate.

More an more people that previously formed a trust for their individual property ownership are now, instead forming LLC's.

Fall on my sidewalk in WINTER due to your lack of care and you no longer can attach my pension, my wife's trust, etc. to your bullshit lawsuit. (never should have been able to anyway, as the sidewalk is technically in the right of way, not actually on the platted property, but that's another discussion)

As for being held accountable, and/or forced to suffer for mistakes or policy violations - Let's fire the SEC and the Banking regulatory agency staff - they afterall missed, failed to report, or failed to enforce a SHITON of irregularities that could have helped stave off a portion of the Financial collapse - and not to mention Maddoff's Ponzi scheme. A helluva lot more than 29 families were impacted by that minor glitch...
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Old April 13th, 2010, 07:03 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Again trying to eke understanding out of AGB's threads - I believe he is angry that the deaths have resulted from lax or even nonexistent safety guidelines - ones that may have prevented this tragedy.
Further, I think he is saying he believes the company (who is responsible for said safety protocol) will get a "slap on the wrist" for not following them and then continue to run hazardous operations.

I saw nothing about government control in his post.

I would have to agree on his assessment. Nothing like the production and chest-thumping with the recent Toyota fiasco, but more like some enforceable and standardized guidelines for companies to follow - and get busted for when they're not.

Maybe Stan was implying the only way those rules would be enforced would be from a new government branch, like we already have for nukes? (NRC)
How about you just shut your whore mouth and not speculate on what I'm talking about and just agree with everything I say!
I'm always correct anyway!

Fucking tards.

Mmmm......rimjobs.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 08:19 PM   #15
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Mmmm......praline rimjobs.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 10:18 PM   #16
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You can act all mean , big and scary,until you see the guy next to you fry, fall , etc....die. Because 1 hour safety training sessions every 3 months don't produce anything, when the harnesses and equipment are all 2 years past their expiraton date or time constraints blatantly blow safety regulations out of the water.
Welcome to the concept of accountability. I provide 95% of my own safety gear. If I dont think something is safe, I dont do it and have walked off the job because of it. If you are too stupid to look at a tag or too much of a bitch to stand up and tell your employer no, then dont land on my ass.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 10:22 PM   #17
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It will always takes everything away from me.

I've got nothing now.
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Old June 3rd, 2010, 06:27 PM   #18
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Counterpoint. How does making anyone else pay for, or "suffer" for the event help anything? It won't bring the dead back. Drawing from the recidivism rate in our prison system, harsh penalties do not act as a deterrent either.

As usual Rye, you are right. So much so that I think we should do away with criminal courts and prisons. Oh yeah, and cops too. For that matter, why have a military that is equipped to leave this continent?

As for defending the legality of corporate organization, it can also protect individuals and/or their assets from frivoulous and bullshit lawsuits as well. Not to mention expedite probate.

More an more people that previously formed a trust for their individual property ownership are now, instead forming LLC's.

Fall on my sidewalk in WINTER due to your lack of care and you no longer can attach my pension, my wife's trust, etc. to your bullshit lawsuit. (never should have been able to anyway, as the sidewalk is technically in the right of way, not actually on the platted property, but that's another discussion)

Check your law there Rye buddy boy. Michigan Supreme Court "Open and Obvious Doctrine". Good luck suing anyone for slipping in the snow. Since I'm in the facilities management business, I HAVE to know the rules.

As for being held accountable, and/or forced to suffer for mistakes or policy violations - Let's fire the SEC and the Banking regulatory agency staff - they afterall missed, failed to report, or failed to enforce a SHITON of irregularities that could have helped stave off a portion of the Financial collapse - and not to mention Maddoff's Ponzi scheme. A helluva lot more than 29 families were impacted by that minor glitch...
Agreed. Many financial heads need to roll.

So your point of all of that was what, exactly?
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