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View Poll Results: Are you a Theist or Non-Theist?
Theist 48 46.60%
Non-theist 55 53.40%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 14th, 2010, 10:16 AM   #61
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Thats big butter jesus to you buddy!
Now that you say that he does look like he was carved from a big stick of butter.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 10:33 AM   #62
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Feel lucky you could be seeing demon's
Holy Shit - we watched "Paranormal Activity" last night and it was an awesome fright.
I don't want demons fucking with me - that is entirely clear.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 10:48 AM   #63
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I agree if I SAW a man doing these things I'd be right on his sand slippers. But the stories of these happening are just as good as the stories of a man who has flying reindeer and can see all and know who is good and bad. Oh and visit ever home in the world in one night. That guy was just as impressive. But there comes a time when we find the truth (flaw in the logic) with jesus and heaven the only way to find out if it's true is to die (perfect logic who can prove this wrong). So now people will believe for FEAR of what may happen if you don't. Fear of an all loving god, that has rules and will punish you but he loves you unconditionally ( yes even as you burn in an eternal fire he still loves you just as much).
The major thing you're missing in your above statement is that you're leaving out FAITH. Faith in the scriptures representing what happened 2000 years ago - stories that tie in with other written histories and transcend all time. Some people may be "God fearing" and are religious because of the perceived consequences, however, I believe most religious persons (ones that are religious in their hearts, not for looking the part) have a strong faith in the Lord and have benefited through their relationship with God.

Taken literally, you are correct, we will only truly know what happens to us after we die - when we actually die. But faith is not logic and it is not something to be looked down upon, IMHO.

Theists have faith;
Non-Theists do not.

How anybody can find fault with either, and berate a person for it, is beyond me. Many with faith try to help those of us without it in helpful ways, some try to bully others with the promise of burning in hell for eternity and pointing out our ignorance for not believing in something we don't have enough proof to feel comfortable with.

In turn, some "faithless" point out that people with faith are sheep, weak-willed, afraid or controlling.

Why should it matter what either "group" thinks? I think everybody could do with a little "Live and let live".
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Old March 14th, 2010, 10:59 AM   #64
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Well put.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 11:04 AM   #65
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I think you are an Artesian, you prefer cold draft beer, or beer in a glass bottle over beer in a can.
I think you may be on to something there.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 11:07 AM   #66
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I voted non theist. It's funny that now that I go to church somewhat regularly I'm doubting more....(My wifes father is a pastor and a GOOD man, so I go much more in the last few years than my entire life combined)

Sometimes I want to beleive other times I wonder how the fukc could there be a good, when priests are boy fuckers, there is the plague, earthquakes, tornadoes, kids being raped and murdered etc.
And if you say he's not responsible for that, then don't claim he is responsible for the good shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you ever asked the Reverend about that?
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Old March 14th, 2010, 11:15 AM   #67
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Duffman, there isn't actually a halfway in between option to the question, "do you believe in a god?" It's either yes or no. Don't say I don't know, because I didn't ask you about what you know. I asked about what you believe. :) I would say you're a non-theist, you don't positively state that there is no god, but you don't subscribe to a specific religion or set of beliefs, either. I bet you are open to evidence, though.
The problem for me it that you haven't defined what you mean by "god". The range is nearly endless, from the omnipotent personal god who is watching my every move, to the largely indifferent "life energy".

The following, quoted from my reply in another thread, sums up the current status of my beliefs. I'll leave you the job of deciding which label you want to apply to me.

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One of my basic beliefs is that as biologically based creatures there is much about this world that we do not, and perhaps can not understand or even conceive of. Within this realm of unknown and/or unknowable things I believe that the possibility exists for the existence of non-biological life forms. Call them angels, demons, spirits, gods, ghosts, aliens, or Santa Claus and the tooth fairy, they can not be proven to not exist, therefor it is only logical to leave open the possibility that they do exist.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 11:22 AM   #68
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I agree if I SAW a man doing these things I'd be right on his sand slippers. But the stories of these happening are just as good as the stories of a man who has flying reindeer and can see all and know who is good and bad. Oh and visit ever home in the world in one night. That guy was just as impressive. But there comes a time when we find the truth (flaw in the logic) with jesus and heaven the only way to find out if it's true is to die (perfect logic who can prove this wrong). So now people will believe for FEAR of what may happen if you don't. Fear of an all loving god, that has rules and will punish you but he loves you unconditionally ( yes even as you burn in an eternal fire he still loves you just as much).
God cannot be with a sinner because Sin, by definition, is a absence (or lack) of God. God lives in heaven Therefore, you can't be in heaven with sin. God does not choose to reject people, People choose to reject his son who, by dying on the cross, took away those sins and allows us to live a life with God. This is such a Crucial Misunderstanding that so many people have about God and Christianity. It shows our cultures ability to pass their responsibility to someone else. God does not want anybody to go to Hell and it pains him to see his Children reject him and damn themselves to hell when he has given such a simple way to heaven.

I don't believe because of Fear of Hell. I was once asked the question Do you love God? or do you love him because he gets you into heaven? It changed the way I think about God and I think this is a Pivotal Question Christians need to ask to Avoid having Faith out of Fear. Would you rather have a Relationship with God (Your loving father/creator) or get into heaven? Christians That live thier life with this question in mind do not believe out of fear, but out of Love.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 03:28 PM   #69
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I think you may be on to something there.
It took a while but I knew I would figure you out.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 03:41 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
The major thing you're missing in your above statement is that you're leaving out FAITH. Faith in the scriptures representing what happened 2000 years ago - stories that tie in with other written histories and transcend all time. Some people may be "God fearing" and are religious because of the perceived consequences, however, I believe most religious persons (ones that are religious in their hearts, not for looking the part) have a strong faith in the Lord and have benefited through their relationship with God.

Taken literally, you are correct, we will only truly know what happens to us after we die - when we actually die. But faith is not logic and it is not something to be looked down upon, IMHO.

Theists have faith;
Non-Theists do not.

How anybody can find fault with either, and berate a person for it, is beyond me. Many with faith try to help those of us without it in helpful ways, some try to bully others with the promise of burning in hell for eternity and pointing out our ignorance for not believing in something we don't have enough proof to feel comfortable with.

In turn, some "faithless" point out that people with faith are sheep, weak-willed, afraid or controlling.

Why should it matter what either "group" thinks? I think everybody could do with a little "Live and let live".
very well said scooter. as you say theists have faith, true. But I believe that non-thiests require more faith in thier belief. Wouldn't one need more faith to believe that something came from nothing? As nonbelievers think it all happened that way. As opposed to a creator creating us and eveything in it.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 03:43 PM   #71
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very well said scooter. as you say theists have faith, true. But I believe that non-thiests require more faith in thier belief. Wouldn't one need more faith to believe that something came from nothing? As nonbelievers think it all happened that way. As opposed to a creator creating us and eveything in it.
Yet the creator came from nothing.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 03:47 PM   #72
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I used to follow Jesus, but Christians ruined it for me.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 04:06 PM   #73
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I used to follow Jesus, but Christians ruined it for me.
I still try to in spite of what the Christians.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 04:21 PM   #74
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Yet the creator came from nothing.
Oh, you mean like Matter? Or what ever matter came from?
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Old March 14th, 2010, 05:19 PM   #75
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I used to follow Jesus, but Christians ruined it for me.
Don't let a few bad apples(Christians) spoil it for you. Keep following Him
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Old March 14th, 2010, 05:23 PM   #76
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Oh, you mean like Matter? Or what ever matter came from?
He is the Matter and Energy that created it all.
And where did He come from?
I have no idea.
He always has and always will be.
His Kingdom will rein forever and ever. And we can be apart of all that.
Hard to imagine what enternity would be like. Forever? How long is that? Can't wrap my head around it.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 05:35 PM   #77
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I'm enjoying the results of this poll so far. Perhaps GL4x4 is a more free-thinking place than America on the whole.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 05:46 PM   #78
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I'm enjoying the results of this poll so far. Perhaps GL4x4 is a more free-thinking place than America on the whole.
Mike, you're thinking in absolutes; what does having faith in a religion have to do with free thought? If you believe in Christ / God / Allah, just exactly how does that make you incapable of free thought?

Don't confound religion with ignorance or close mindedness; just because someone believe in God doesn't mean they are not a free thinker.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 05:48 PM   #79
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Mike, you're thinking in absolutes; what does having faith in a religion have to do with free thought? If you believe in Christ / God / Allah, just exactly how does that make you incapable of free thought?

Don't confound religion with ignorance or close mindedness; just because someone believe in God doesn't mean they are not a free thinker.
I think religious extremism can cloud ones ability to freely think about a subject.
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Old March 14th, 2010, 05:51 PM   #80
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I think religious extremism can cloud ones ability to freely think about a subject.
Then you should qualify your statement with that very important tidbit. I would agree with your assessment of religious extremism, however, your last statement + your poll made it sound like Theists == Religious Extremists.

That isn't the case.
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