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View Poll Results: Are you a Theist or Non-Theist?
Theist 48 46.60%
Non-theist 55 53.40%
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Old March 17th, 2010, 09:50 AM   #201
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No, I go to a place where I can be surrounded by like minded people that love the one true God. Yes, he's in my head, but also in my heart, soul and all around. I love feeling the spirit of God. Hopefully you'll get the chance before it's two late.

I like reading your post because you make me laugh . . . I think you are trying to make me look bad but I just see some desperate soul reaching out for Jesus and all I can do is pray for you!! Pause . . . . . there, I just did!
You bible thumpers crack me up. Yes, I was trying to push your buttons, but instead of praying for me, you should pray that you never lose your religion, because without it, You apparently wouldn't survive the real world. It is sad, but like i've said, religion does serve it's purpose, it keeps the feeble minded feeling warm and fuzzy
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Old March 17th, 2010, 09:50 AM   #202
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Aber61, Do you think that your morals are superior to mine? Keep in mind, I think having pre-marital sex...is OK. gasp.
Who am I to say what your morals are and if they are superior nor not. Quite frankly I could care less. But if have the need to inform everybody that you are morally superior to all of us then you go for it mike
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Old March 17th, 2010, 09:52 AM   #203
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Who am I to say what your morals are and if they are superior nor not. Quite frankly I could care less. But if have the need to inform everybody that you are morally superior to all of us then you go for it mike
I think you understand what I'm saying and are just trying to be an asshat(not that there is anything wrong with that) OR you just don't get it.

Last edited by mikesova; March 17th, 2010 at 09:55 AM.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 09:52 AM   #204
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Old March 17th, 2010, 09:54 AM   #205
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You worship a voice in your head, and have to pay someone to make it feel legitimate? Does god trade in dollars these days? How much is a ticket to heaven anyway? What if god has a little slant to his eyes, and you get to the gates of heaven, and he'd expected you to donate yen all along? What about blood? Does he accept us spilling blood for him anymore like the good old days? Or does people pretending to eat and drink him make that obsolete?
Its a free gift, it doesn't cost anything.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 09:59 AM   #206
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Its a free gift, it doesn't cost anything.
Careful with stating your beliefs as fact, could be we're all supposed to be slaughtering virgins right now, you don't know for sure
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Old March 17th, 2010, 10:06 AM   #207
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I think you understand what I'm saying and are just trying to be an asshat(not that there is anything wrong with that) OR you just don't get it.
I understand what you're saying and completely agree with you.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 10:13 AM   #208
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I understand what you're saying and completely agree with you.
I need to buy you a beer Bruce. If you're ever in Gladwin, get ahold of me.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 10:51 AM   #209
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You bible thumpers crack me up. Yes, I was trying to push your buttons, but instead of praying for me, you should pray that you never lose your religion, because without it, You apparently wouldn't survive the real world. It is sad, but like i've said, religion does serve it's purpose, it keeps the feeble minded feeling warm and fuzzy
Um, ok. I doubt I would turn into a raving lunitic if I didn't have the bible guiding me but that's just another assumption you like to make.

I don't have to worry about loosing my faith so I would much rather pray for you.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 11:31 AM   #210
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Evidence could slap you right in the face and you would say it isn't so.
From the "evidence" you've presented, I'd have to say you're right.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 11:41 AM   #211
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But morals are subjective, and personal. So when he says he believes himself to be more moral than your God he has given his personal opinion based on his morality, not a statement of logic.
So, if all morality is subjective, then you must admit that you can never offer a criticism of anyone else’s actions that is more valid than saying “I don’t like what you’re doing, and I think it’s wrong, but I can’t say it’s definitely wrong”? That carries no more weight than saying, “I don’t like the color of your shirt.”

Let’s assume that there’s an afterlife for a moment; say everyone meets up at a Denny’s for breakfast after they die. You happen to get seated with Hitler, Mao, and Jeffery Dahmer. Though the actual words used might be different, the gist of the conversation would have to go something like this:

SM (subjective moralist): You guys sure did some sick stuff while you were alive . . . uh . . . I mean . . . of course I can’t say it was WRONG in any absolute sense, because all morality is relative . . . but . . . according to my value system, it was sure sick.

Hitler: I thought it was great; I was improving the German race.

Mao: What I did was great; I was eliminating undesirables from China. I was furthering the cause of the proletariat.

Dahmer: I didn't do anything wrong; I was hungry.

MR: Well, at least you guys were consistent with your own set of values, which is cool.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 11:49 AM   #212
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So, if all morality is subjective, then you must admit that you can never offer a criticism of anyone elseís actions that is more valid than saying ďI donít like what youíre doing, and I think itís wrong, but I canít say itís definitely wrongĒ? That carries no more weight than saying, ďI donít like the color of your shirt.Ē
Wrong, I can criticize all I want based on my morality. Luckily, enough of us with very similar morals have put together a book of laws that we can use to live by. We don't all agree with all of them, but they seem to work. Some may seem "immoral" to some, (legal abortion) and some may seem "too moral" to others (illegal marijuana) .
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Old March 17th, 2010, 11:58 AM   #213
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Wrong, I can criticize all I want based on my morality. Luckily, enough of us with very similar morals have put together a book of laws that we can use to live by. We don't all agree with all of them, but they seem to work. Some may seem "immoral" to some, (legal abortion) and some may seem "too moral" to others (illegal marijuana) .

As I said, you can criticize, based on your own morality, but it carries no more weight than saying you don't like chocolate. You’re just refusing to follow your premise to its logical conclusion. For a moral relativist, a law can’t embody an absolute or true moral principle, because such principles don't exist. A law is just a group of guys agreeing to prohibit and punish certain actions, not because they are inherently wrong. They could make it a capital offense to murder someone, or to wear a green shirt. Most historians acknowledge that Hitler was lawfully elected, and acted under the authority of German law. Under your principle, he did nothing wrong in any absolute sense.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 12:08 PM   #214
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As I said, you can criticize, based on your own morality, but it carries no more weight than saying you don't like chocolate. Youíre just refusing to follow your premise to its logical conclusion. For a moral relativist, a law canít embody an absolute or true moral principle, because such principles don't exist. A law is just a group of guys agreeing to prohibit and punish certain actions, not because they are inherently wrong. They could make it a capital offense to murder someone, or to wear a green shirt. Most historians acknowledge that Hitler was lawfully elected, and acted under the authority of German law. Under your principle, he did nothing wrong in any absolute sense.
So when you criticize something you find immoral based on biblical principles, it carries weight because you believe in Jesus? I don't understand where you're going here?
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Old March 17th, 2010, 12:22 PM   #215
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So when you criticize something you find immoral based on biblical principles, it carries weight because you believe in Jesus? I don't understand where you're going here?
Don't change the subject. Is my reasoning faulty somehow?

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Old March 17th, 2010, 12:28 PM   #216
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Don't change the subject. Is my reasoning faulty somehow?
I'm not changing the subject, I'm trying to determine your point.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 12:51 PM   #217
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$40,000 A year probably sounds like a hell of a living to alot of people, and they're probably willing to do actual work for it instead of selling a line of bullshit. If I opened up a store selling magic air in a can and said it was help people could I give people a guilt trip to make them give me money?

YOu have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Pastors work 6 our 7 days a week just like everyone else. How is Visiting people in the hospital a bad thing? How bout organizing local Chairity work? Yeah, Pastors do that too. You're comments show your limited Knowledge on not just church finance but what most churches actually do.

On that same note, I could say it's ridiculous that someone get's paid 30 dollars an hour on an assembly line to do the exact same thing they've been doing for 30 years. But I don't because I actually am not a Rude Douchebag kind of person. So, when you actually decide to learn ANYTHING about churches out side of what you read in what ever atheist/Secular media come and talk because you have absolutely no idea what churches are about.


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Lets put it this way, these churches don't make anybody give em money. People give from their hearts because they are willing to give and help others in need.
What you need to do is go on a mission trip and see how poor other places are in this world, that would give you a different outlook about people that have and the people that havenot.
Don't forget 40grand a year, he pays taxes on that, he puts his own money back into his church, he has expences to live on and so on.
I'd like to add that pastors in the Methodist church are technically self employed as well. They pay MORE taxes and have to pay for thier own Benefits as well. Once again, I can say this from Personal, First hand Experience.

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You can give to charities for all the poor little pygmies in the world without funneling it through the story tellers cutting a fat percentage off the top.
You're ignorant to the Finances of any church. So just shut up about it because you're pulling it out of your butt....or what ever media out let you get it from. Either way, it smells like crap.

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You tell me exactly how much professional liars are supposed to be paid these days? I know they serve a purpose and help keep the most scared and feeble of the world from pissing themselves whenever the wind kicks up, but it's still selling a line of bullshit.
Huh, I would challenge you to go any church and ask them why the believe. They won't say fear, They'll say love. Please do tell me were you get your information? Because from the sounds of it.....It's wrong.

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You worship a voice in your head, and have to pay someone to make it feel legitimate? Does god trade in dollars these days? How much is a ticket to heaven anyway? What if god has a little slant to his eyes, and you get to the gates of heaven, and he'd expected you to donate yen all along? What about blood? Does he accept us spilling blood for him anymore like the good old days? Or does people pretending to eat and drink him make that obsolete?
The only one required to spill blood is Christ. He did it already 2000 years ago. And yes, That made Sacrifice Obsolete. God does not care about the money. But, If you had any ounce of understanding about how churches run, you would know that money is needed to pay the bills.

All that being said, You can have you're opinion but don't try and argue with someone that has personal knowledge about a subject and has been involved in that subject thier whole lives. Especially if you're going to come off as a know it all. Because in the end, I know more then you about this subject and I can prove it because I have that expierence. All you have is What you claim Pastors preach, Bull Shit.

Pastors can be some of the most loving people in the world. Not all, But most are. Thier job is to encourage people and be with them through hard and easy times. They are not Crooks, They are not Theifs. If you knew anything about Christian Theology you would know that being any of those things would not bear well when they are judged because they know that they will be held to a higher standard, even higher then your everyday Christian.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 12:56 PM   #218
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My church actually ask to not give when offering time comes around. He explains that this time is only for the church body who believes in tithing and wants to give to the church. If you are undecided on tithing or undecided on anything please don't give because the the thing we DO NOT WANT is your money.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 01:07 PM   #219
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My church actually ask to not give when offering time comes around. He explains that this time is only for the church body who believes in tithing and wants to give to the church. If you are undecided on tithing or undecided on anything please don't give because the the thing we DO NOT WANT is your money.
Unless you want to give us money, don't. I think a hooker said something like that to me once

Edit: Even jesus fucked hookers, so don't judge me
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Old March 17th, 2010, 01:10 PM   #220
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YOu have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Pastors work 6 our 7 days a week just like everyone else. How is Visiting people in the hospital a bad thing? How bout organizing local Chairity work? Yeah, Pastors do that too. You're comments show your limited Knowledge on not just church finance but what most churches actually do.

On that same note, I could say it's ridiculous that someone get's paid 30 dollars an hour on an assembly line to do the exact same thing they've been doing for 30 years. But I don't because I actually am not a Rude Douchebag kind of person. So, when you actually decide to learn ANYTHING about churches out side of what you read in what ever atheist/Secular media come and talk because you have absolutely no idea what churches are about.




I'd like to add that pastors in the Methodist church are technically self employed as well. They pay MORE taxes and have to pay for thier own Benefits as well. Once again, I can say this from Personal, First hand Experience.



You're ignorant to the Finances of any church. So just shut up about it because you're pulling it out of your butt....or what ever media out let you get it from. Either way, it smells like crap.



Huh, I would challenge you to go any church and ask them why the believe. They won't say fear, They'll say love. Please do tell me were you get your information? Because from the sounds of it.....It's wrong.



The only one required to spill blood is Christ. He did it already 2000 years ago. And yes, That made Sacrifice Obsolete. God does not care about the money. But, If you had any ounce of understanding about how churches run, you would know that money is needed to pay the bills.

All that being said, You can have you're opinion but don't try and argue with someone that has personal knowledge about a subject and has been involved in that subject thier whole lives. Especially if you're going to come off as a know it all. Because in the end, I know more then you about this subject and I can prove it because I have that expierence. All you have is What you claim Pastors preach, Bull Shit.

Pastors can be some of the most loving people in the world. Not all, But most are. Thier job is to encourage people and be with them through hard and easy times. They are not Crooks, They are not Theifs. If you knew anything about Christian Theology you would know that being any of those things would not bear well when they are judged because they know that they will be held to a higher standard, even higher then your everyday Christian.

Arguing about whether or not religion is real, whether or not god is real, is really not the point. Due to the true nature of man, I feel that probably 90% of "preachers" out there, whether they do good or not, know they are selling a line of bullshit. They know they're doing good, and they know the feeble minds need it, but they still know they're selling bullshit.
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