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Old February 25th, 2010, 10:14 AM   #1
LuckyCharm4x4
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Arrow Custom 609 Axle Build

I am really new to this axle and I have been reading for the past couple days about them. I will have several questions that will keep coming up, but here are my plans so far:

Plans:
Front
- Aftermarket Housing (I think 95Geo would Kill me if I went w/ stock housings)
- Selectable Locker
- Hi9 Pinion??? (will go LP if price > benefits)
- 35 Spline
- 5.38 Gears

Rear
- Aftermarket Housing
- Spool
- Low Pinion
- 35 Spline
- 5.38 Gears


I will start by building the front because that seems to be the harder one. Also, I want to replace my D44 and sell it to get tires or fund the new rear axle. The D60 can probably hold up to the larger tires, so I'd be ok with running it for awhile.


Reason for replacing my current axles:
- The D44 I have now has D30 outers, and I don't think it would hold up to a 37+ tire. It is nice to have the weak link (fuse) outside, or away from the diff, but I would rather sell the axle instead of breaking it.
- The Dana 60 I have is 30 spline.


Inspiration:
I really have to blame Daryl (MonkeyEvil) for implanting this idea in my head because his post made me want to steal his Jeep, but instead I'll just build my axles like his!
9, 609, & cage build (New pics) - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest



Any help or input along the way will be greatly appreciated, I don't want to overlook anything or miss any details.


~Bry

Last edited by LuckyCharm4x4; February 26th, 2010 at 09:35 AM.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 10:53 AM   #2
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Unless you are going to compete I don't think the selectable locker in the front is worth the extra money.

I would do a hi-9 in the rear. I busted a LP 9" on a rock once. Hence, why I have the hi-9. Even then I still hit frequently.

Oh, by the way, wrong forum.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 11:09 AM   #3
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argh, too many forums to choose from, someone can move it at will, sorry!

I have heard not to do a hi9 rear. I was thinking of just running a yoke guard (http://www.greatlakeoffroad.com/parts.html)

The reason I was thinking selectable is because I have a Detroit in the front end now and I never use 4-wheel drive (unless I have to) cause I can't turn well. I usually just use rear low. I just thought it would make tight trails more navigable with an open front at times!
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Old February 25th, 2010, 11:12 AM   #4
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If I were you I'd save the money on the front and just run a HP 60, for the rear you can run the aftermarket housing and hi-9 center. It's the best bang for the buck by far. You can move the front diff out of the way, the rear always gets hung up so the clearance helps there.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 12:51 PM   #5
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A detroit in the front shouldn't make it more difficult to turn. If it's properly functioning it should release and let the tires freewheel unless there is power to the carrier.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 01:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95geo View Post
If I were you I'd save the money on the front and just run a HP 60, for the rear you can run the aftermarket housing and hi-9 center. It's the best bang for the buck by far. You can move the front diff out of the way, the rear always gets hung up so the clearance helps there.
The reason I want to go 609 is to gain some ground clearance. What would the benefits/drawbacks of the D60 or 609. My D60 right now drags over everything w/ 35's

~Bry
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Old February 25th, 2010, 03:00 PM   #7
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Things to keep in mind:
I would like to have the same bolt pattern front and rear.
I would like to use stock length shafts, if feasible.
I don't think that I want to be full width, or outboard my hangers.
I am thinking 4 wheel discs. This means I'll have to upgrade my stock booster, MC and prop valve too.

Any pointers on any of those topics?

~Bry
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Old February 25th, 2010, 03:10 PM   #8
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Save the money on a selectable front and do full hydro or hydro assist. I have a Detroit and only once in a while do I struggle with steering. It's a non issue.

I don't know who told you not to do a hi-9 in the rear but I'd like to know why.

Do some reading.
http://www.truehi9.com/gears2.html

Regarding dragging, very rarely is the front an issue because you can steer around an obstacle. The rear is just following along and making corrections is much tougher to clear an obstacle.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 03:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyCharm4x4 View Post
Things to keep in mind:
I would like to have the same bolt pattern front and rear.
I would like to use stock length shafts, if feasible.
I don't think that I want to be full width, or outboard my hangers.
I am thinking 4 wheel discs. This means I'll have to upgrade my stock booster, MC and prop valve too.

Any pointers on any of those topics?

~Bry
So order your new 35 spline axle shafts in the rear with a bolt pattern to match the front.
Stay full width and you have stock shaft lengths. But either way, Moser ships within a couple days. Why is this an issue?
Full width is SO MUCH better than narrow. I am 65" WMS to WMS which is full width 1/2 ton. I narrowed the front 5" to match. You will be amazed at the stability and maneuvering is not an issue.
4 wheel disc is nice. I have it but have never gotten around to changing my MC. It's not perfect but works OK. Again, non issue in the big picture.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 03:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyCharm4x4 View Post
My D60 right now drags over everything w/ 35's
Ever wonder why?

You need a 37" tire to clear a 60 center without lots of issues on the trail. Is your d60 in the front or rear? You dont have nearly the clearance issues in the front as you do in the rear, that's why a 60 front and 9" rear work so well.

If I were doing axles for a full body vehicle they would be full width and I'd make the width what I wanted with the wheel back spacing. I'd shoot for 82" OAW for a full body vehicle so depending on tires, that's 5-6" of BS on the wheels.

Building aftermarket axles around stock length shafts is counter productive. If you want stock width, use stock axles and save yourself the $5k investment.

Dont get too hung up on the clearance thing, you can spend 10k on axles and run 37's and have 13" of clearance or you can spend 5k on axles, run 40's and have 13" of clearance.

And dont forget, the driver has the ability to avoid getting hung up more than any axle can help with. In competition, there is no cut and dry line between the 9's making a line vs. the 60's not making the line, tire placement is the ultimate factor.

Use the pirate bible for OEM information.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 03:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
So order your new 35 spline axle shafts in the rear with a bolt pattern to match the front.
Stay full width and you have stock shaft lengths. But either way, Moser ships within a couple days. Why is this an issue?
Full width is SO MUCH better than narrow. I am 65" WMS to WMS which is full width 1/2 ton. I narrowed the front 5" to match. You will be amazed at the stability and maneuvering is not an issue.
4 wheel disc is nice. I have it but have never gotten around to changing my MC. It's not perfect but works OK. Again, non issue in the big picture.
I was thinking that right around 65" would be pretty good, will that require outboarding?
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Old February 25th, 2010, 03:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95geo View Post
Ever wonder why?

And dont forget, the driver has the ability to avoid getting hung up more than any axle can help with. In competition, there is no cut and dry line between the 9's making a line vs. the 60's not making the line, tire placement is the ultimate factor.

Use the pirate bible for OEM information.
No, I know why my boat anchor drags, haha!

That's why I want to build the axle better, to make up for my bad driving!

I forgot about the Pirate Bible, good thinkin, I'll keep reading and researching and see what I come up with. Thanks for all the input so far. Keep it coming!

~Bry
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Old February 25th, 2010, 04:15 PM   #13
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I can't give you any input on outboarding. No experience with it.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 04:29 PM   #14
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Leaf springs are foreign to me.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 09:34 PM   #15
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Is the HP D60 generally cheaper than a 609?

~Bry
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Old February 25th, 2010, 10:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyCharm4x4 View Post
Is the HP D60 generally cheaper than a 609?

~Bry
Exponentially.

Look at the axle forum for d60 vs d44 costs comparison, Monkeyevil did a great break down.

-HP60 kingpin, RCV CV shafts, detroit, 5.38's high steer
-Spidertrax 3.5" housing, Mega True Hi-9 5.40:1 40 spline spool, either unit bearing or standard FF
-13+" brake rotors with Wilwood D52 dual 2.0" piston calipers and BP-10 pads.

Those are what I would build if I didnt have hi-9's and they's be about the same price as 609's F/R.
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Old February 26th, 2010, 10:20 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyCharm4x4 View Post
I was thinking that right around 65" would be pretty good, will that require outboarding?
Outboadrding is only required if you think stability will be poor. Also, a sway bar can help with stability (body roll).
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Old February 27th, 2010, 07:08 PM   #18
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Stock 60 shafts have a larger OD seal surface that ends up inside a 9" carrier. They won't fit. I built my front to use stock application Superior inner d60 shafts. I had to turn down the seal surface. It wasn't really that hard to actually so I'm hoping I didn't kill the strength of the shaft. I guess we will see.

I'd build a 609 again because the clearance is groovy. I can't afford the bling HP stuff, so I went with strong LP housings.

Are you not already out boarded in front? I don't see you fitting an in boarded spring on a 60 or 9" passenger drop. As it is my YJ perch is mounted pretty high on my housing.
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Last edited by Monkeyevil; February 27th, 2010 at 07:12 PM.
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Old February 27th, 2010, 07:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
I busted a LP 9" on a rock once. Hence, why I have the hi-9. Even then I still hit frequently.
Stock, N, or aftermarket?
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Old January 10th, 2012, 02:44 PM   #20
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I want to bring this back to top.

I'm trying to get a material list together along with figuring out what is the best route to go. I'l with the OP, want to keep the ground clearance but want to get the strength of a 60. I have a Front HP60 and a rear 60. My thought was to take out the shafts and outers and put them on some aftermarket housings and get a couple hi9 centers.

The massive cost is in the Hi9 housing/gears/lockers.

But MonkeyEvil says the D60 shafts won't work in a 9" housing?

I want to be around 62-63" WMS, and still get my front drive shaft to fit between the frame and I6 exhaust. I was pretty sure I was on the right road with 609's. Am I not on the right track here?
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