Unimog axles in a tj - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Axle Tech
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 22nd, 2011, 01:46 PM   #1
outback20
Outback 20
 
outback20's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-22-09
Location: Grant, Mi
Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default Unimog axles in a tj

i have an 01 tj with an 8" long arm and coil over shocks. i am running 37 inch iroks on 17 inch wheels. my axles are still a dana 30 front and dana 35 rear. they have both been regeared to 4.88 and the rear has chromoly shafts and a detroit locker. i realize that my axles are way undersized for what i am running so lets just skip all that and get right to it. i NEED bigger axles but don't know what to go to. i know that i REALLY want to run portals. i would love to have pro rock 60's with AIM portals but thats over $22,000. I have recently been pointed in the direction of unimog 404's or possibly unimog 406's. these axles are portals as well and the cost is almost 1/3 of the dynatrac pro rock 60's. does anyone have much experience or knowledge of these? i'm trying to save money up now and would like to take this next step with my rig within a year. any info, suggestions, and help would be greatly appreciated.

outback20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old August 22nd, 2011, 01:53 PM   #2
bigbchevy
missmrgreenagain
 
bigbchevy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-07
Location: fenton /hartland mi
Posts: 18,734
iTrader: (167)
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Default

The gear ratio is the prob if you plan on driving fast ever
__________________
H.o.r.e
(mr.green)So you are calling CC a liar?? Not a nice way to treat your bitch.
tube bending and gear installs pm me for info! gears installed for $150 and up per axle.
bigbchevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2011, 01:54 PM   #3
samurai2240
Adrenaline my drug choice
 
samurai2240's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-06-05
Location: muskegon
Posts: 1,040
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Sandbagging no more!! Going hardcore........maybe - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest
samurai2240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2011, 02:06 PM   #4
Klumpper
Fuck Cancer!
 
Join Date: 08-26-09
Location: Howell
Posts: 430
iTrader: (15)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I have a little experience with them, as I own a 404.

I cant remember exactly, but I seem to recall a combined ratio between the hub and the diff to be about 7.56:1.

They're set up to run as a torque tube, so you'll need to convert the pinions to run drive shafts. I don't know what all is involved in this process. I do need to replace a wheel cylinder on it, and i'm not really looking forward to it at the moment. Stock 404 suspension is coil, so that may lead to be beneficial.

Stock brakes - i don't believe anything smaller than a 20" rim will clear the brake/hub assembly. The drums are freaking huge. They also have a massive 6 bolt pattern, and stock rims are fairly narrow. Mine's running a 10.5 R20 that fit well. Clearance to the pumpkin is ~17.5" with tires at normal pressure. Another buddy has 39" iroks that are 12 or 14" wide and not quite screaming for a wider rim, but for what he wants to do they're working ok.

If you run highway trips with it, some guys choose to monitor the hub temps pretty closely.

Another option are the SEE axles, as they tubes are bolt-on replaceable, but they're a bit more, but considerably stronger.
Klumpper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2011, 03:15 PM   #5
outback20
Outback 20
 
outback20's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-22-09
Location: Grant, Mi
Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

just checked out that link. that's a sweet buggy he's building. thanks for the link.
outback20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2011, 03:39 PM   #6
outback20
Outback 20
 
outback20's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-22-09
Location: Grant, Mi
Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klumpper View Post
I have a little experience with them, as I own a 404.

I cant remember exactly, but I seem to recall a combined ratio between the hub and the diff to be about 7.56:1.

They're set up to run as a torque tube, so you'll need to convert the pinions to run drive shafts. I don't know what all is involved in this process. I do need to replace a wheel cylinder on it, and i'm not really looking forward to it at the moment. Stock 404 suspension is coil, so that may lead to be beneficial.

Stock brakes - i don't believe anything smaller than a 20" rim will clear the brake/hub assembly. The drums are freaking huge. They also have a massive 6 bolt pattern, and stock rims are fairly narrow. Mine's running a 10.5 R20 that fit well. Clearance to the pumpkin is ~17.5" with tires at normal pressure. Another buddy has 39" iroks that are 12 or 14" wide and not quite screaming for a wider rim, but for what he wants to do they're working ok.

If you run highway trips with it, some guys choose to monitor the hub temps pretty closely.

Another option are the SEE axles, as they tubes are bolt-on replaceable, but they're a bit more, but considerably stronger.
i've looked at places like the mog shop who can do all the pinion and disc brake conversions and then ship the axles to me. all conversions done and shipped was around $7,000. not cheap but still way cheaper than dynatrac pro rock 60's with aim portals. from what i've learned, they will also set them up with a more convenient bolt pattern and the disc brake conversion allows for a smaller wheel option.

i'd never heard of the 419's until i followed the previous link to the buggy build in which that is what he was using. i like the gear ratio in the 419 a little better. and 4 wheel steer is definitely a bonus. i plan to run at least a 44" tire with these axles so the 6.54 ratio doesn't sound that far off either but i'm not sure i need something as heavy duty as the 419's. which would be better for my type of wheeling, 404's, 419's, or other i do a lot of wheeling on drummond island and i just got back from a 2 week trip out west where i ran the rubicon, deer valley, and 5 days in moab so i am progressively starting to run tougher terrain. this is the reason i'm really looking at bigger axles i'm not going to be able to do the fab work myself, unfortunately, to put these axles in so i'm gonna have to rely on someone, or a shop, to work on it for me. i've turned every single bolt on this jeep myself as well as worked on lots of other jeeps for guys but i'm just not setup for heavy fabrication work and i want to the end result to be right.

where can you get these axles and how much? do you know any shops that have experience with installing these? i think while i am installing the new axles a will also look at moving the front and rear axles outward and going with full hydraulic steer. i'm afraid to even think what this may cost in the end. maybe it's just a big dream. Lol.
outback20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2011, 06:54 PM   #7
Bleay
sick of jackstand wheelin
 
Bleay's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: Clawson
Posts: 1,378
iTrader: (18)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

How much HP do you think you will end up with? In other words unless you are planning on running 42" and larger tires with 400+ hp i think anything over 1 tons is over kill.

In my opinion a Pro Rock 60 is a waste of money and people who buy those dont really know what they need. You know that axle because they spend lots of money in advertising and sponsoring.

If you are dead set on portals the mogs are great. Also another option would be to put the Aim's on a Corp 14 both front and rear.
Bleay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24th, 2011, 09:03 AM   #8
outback20
Outback 20
 
outback20's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-22-09
Location: Grant, Mi
Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

i'm still running the 4.0 right now with future hopes of running a 4bt cummins diesel and 44" tires or larger. either way i'm not looking at alot of horsepower. a built 4bt might push 300hp and 500lbs of torque if lucky. i'm pretty set on portals though for the clearance aspects, and i want something that i can thrash pretty hard on the rocks and not have to worry about ever breaking.

i saw an article last month in peterson's where terra traction in florida built a tj up. it was a tj body and interior on a tube chassis with 404's and a 4.0. it looked like a pretty awesome machine. i started to view myself going in that direction. i thought about just starting with an ARR chassis and building off of that but then decided that i wanted to retain my jeep body and interior for the creature comforts and the ability to keep my top on in bad weather.

i hadn't thought about the corp 14's with aim portals though. got any info on them? how wide of a set up would that be flange to flange? any ideas on availability and price?

Last edited by outback20; August 24th, 2011 at 09:08 AM. Reason: forgot some details
outback20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24th, 2011, 12:35 PM   #9
liv2mx
i like jungle gym's.
 
liv2mx's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-10-05
Location: silver lake and up in the air building america
Posts: 11,175
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Default

mike the guy building the buggy in the link bought like 10 sets of those axles.he still has some for sale i believe. pm him.he has done a bunch of research and is a good guy to talk to about this stuff.
liv2mx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24th, 2011, 12:42 PM   #10
outback20
Outback 20
 
outback20's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-22-09
Location: Grant, Mi
Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

i will do that. thx very much!
outback20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24th, 2011, 04:12 PM   #11
benny87
Young Gun..!
 
benny87's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-03-06
Location: Waterford
Posts: 2,924
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Project KILLER"B" ...been way too long!! pic added 8/21 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Also search Pirate4x4. There is a few sweet builds with mogs.
benny87 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 24th, 2011, 04:36 PM   #12
skife
Senior Member
 
skife's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-12-07
Location: cedar springs mi
Posts: 5,113
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to skife Send a message via MSN to skife
Default

hit up rock solid performance in cedar springs... they build some pretty awesome 60's
skife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24th, 2011, 07:38 PM   #13
Bleay
sick of jackstand wheelin
 
Bleay's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: Clawson
Posts: 1,378
iTrader: (18)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by outback20 View Post
i hadn't thought about the corp 14's with aim portals though. got any info on them? how wide of a set up would that be flange to flange? any ideas on availability and price?
You can pretty much make them any width you want. The Aim portal boxes weld to the axle tube.
Bleay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 08:33 AM   #14
blue_toy
SLOW IS FAST??
 
blue_toy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-10-07
Location: zeeland/mi
Posts: 809
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

My opinion is the 419 is the way to go, they have the U1300 portal boxes which are slightly stronger then the 406 boxes (much stronger than the 404), the 416/419 use large stright cut gears so you can run them either way (the 404 do not use straight cut. The 404 are nice, but i hear the portal boxes can break when abused in rocks. I like the 419 because they have factory disc breaks (the disc are larger than my toyotas flywheel), the axles roughly weigh 650lbs (pretty light for this kind of strength IMO), stock 55* turning radius, 1 3/4" double-cardam axles shafts, air lockers, 6:52 to 1 overall gear ratio, and awesome ground clearance - may 6" more than normal. I recentered my rims to widened my width with 49" tires to 89". I really don't know how well they will work as i have only driven my buggy off the trailer for the first time this morning at the exhaust shop.


I do have a pair of steer axles i may want to sell, although they need pinion gears....
blue_toy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 11:05 AM   #15
isuzutruggy?
Kreepy Krawlerz Off Road
 
isuzutruggy?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-15-09
Location: traverse city michigan
Posts: 646
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_toy View Post
My opinion is the 419 is the way to go, they have the U1300 portal boxes which are slightly stronger then the 406 boxes (much stronger than the 404), the 416/419 use large stright cut gears so you can run them either way (the 404 do not use straight cut. The 404 are nice, but i hear the portal boxes can break when abused in rocks. I like the 419 because they have factory disc breaks (the disc are larger than my toyotas flywheel), the axles roughly weigh 650lbs (pretty light for this kind of strength IMO), stock 55* turning radius, 1 3/4" double-cardam axles shafts, air lockers, 6:52 to 1 overall gear ratio, and awesome ground clearance - may 6" more than normal. I recentered my rims to widened my width with 49" tires to 89". I really don't know how well they will work as i have only driven my buggy off the trailer for the first time this morning at the exhaust shop.


I do have a pair of steer axles i may want to sell, although they need pinion gears....


I am interested in a set of 419's are the pinnion gears hard to get ahold of?
isuzutruggy? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 12:43 PM   #16
outback20
Outback 20
 
outback20's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-22-09
Location: Grant, Mi
Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skife View Post
hit up rock solid performance in cedar springs... they build some pretty awesome 60's
Yup, I've talked with gord before about axles but never about portals. I'm not sure if he messes with them or not.
outback20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 12:48 PM   #17
outback20
Outback 20
 
outback20's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-22-09
Location: Grant, Mi
Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by isuzutruggy? View Post
I am interested in a set of 419's are the pinnion gears hard to get ahold of?
Nice hijack.
outback20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 12:50 PM   #18
outback20
Outback 20
 
outback20's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-22-09
Location: Grant, Mi
Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_toy View Post
My opinion is the 419 is the way to go, they have the U1300 portal boxes which are slightly stronger then the 406 boxes (much stronger than the 404), the 416/419 use large stright cut gears so you can run them either way (the 404 do not use straight cut. The 404 are nice, but i hear the portal boxes can break when abused in rocks. I like the 419 because they have factory disc breaks (the disc are larger than my toyotas flywheel), the axles roughly weigh 650lbs (pretty light for this kind of strength IMO), stock 55* turning radius, 1 3/4" double-cardam axles shafts, air lockers, 6:52 to 1 overall gear ratio, and awesome ground clearance - may 6" more than normal. I recentered my rims to widened my width with 49" tires to 89". I really don't know how well they will work as i have only driven my buggy off the trailer for the first time this morning at the exhaust shop.


I do have a pair of steer axles i may want to sell, although they need pinion gears....
Pm me, and let's talk about the axles. If you're interested in selling I maybe interested in buying. Thx.
outback20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 10:51 PM   #19
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,745
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Are you looking at Volvo C303 axles at all?
You may be surprised by the amount of beef per dollar you can get out of them.

Last edited by cerial; August 25th, 2011 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Deleted part of post.
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2011, 11:05 PM   #20
outback20
Outback 20
 
outback20's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-22-09
Location: Grant, Mi
Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

haven't heard of them. are they a portal axle?
outback20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Axle Tech

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:54 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.81749 seconds with 83 queries