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Old January 11th, 2010, 09:48 PM   #61
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Well, that actually is a good point. Since science has shown that all the land was once connected (pangea), but this is millions of years ago.

I'm pretty sure the ark was built 4000 years ago (2000 BC?), so I would think that the continents had already split apart, and the polar bears were in the north, and the penguins were in the south.

Genesis 5:32 tells us that Noah was 500 years old when he fathered three kids, so we know Noah was pretty smart, after all, he was 500 or 600 years old when he built the ark so he very well could have had time to build some sort of a transportation device to travel all over the world.



But here is the two problems I have. According to genesis 77:11-15, all the animals were loaded in a 24 hour span. There are what, 29 million land dwelling organisms documented right now (and since evolution doesn't exist, these had to be from the ark) which means noah had to load these organisms at a rate of 450 per second, and I believe he only had help from his three sons (which he had when he was 500 years old).

Then what about diseases? There are many diseases that only effect humans. How did these diseases last on the ark without killing him and his family?

Also, there are 10,203 different varieties of documented termites. When he had all those on the boat (20,406 total, don't forget about pairs), I'm curious why they didn't eat the boat.

This makes me think the boat was made from some synthetic material, which was lightweight, and probably lab made, as to displace huge amounts of water yet strong enough to hold the estimated 37 billion pounds of animals that were on the ark.
You are putting way to much thought into it. You can drive yourself crazy trying to discount or disprove it. Did you know that the cedar tree is a wood that bugs don't like, even termites as for the ark was biult with cypress wood, a hard wood that also is resistant to bug infestation.
Think of all the dogs today, do you really think that there were all those breads back then? NOT. One bread was all that was needed, it had enough genetic make up in its DNA to be what we have today. I think its called micro evolution.

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Old January 11th, 2010, 10:06 PM   #62
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so are you stating that you do not believe carbon dating is reliable, even though it has been proven to be accurate up to 60,000 years?


Yes, you will probably find websites that state its only accurate up to 4,000 years, but I'm sure it will have "religion" or "jesus" in the url.
Carbon dating is not accurate. Remember when Mt St.Helens blew? Well scientists took rock from the site and took it to be tested but did not tell then where the rock came from and it was dated through carbon dating method and was to be millions of years old, when in fact the rock had only been formed a few years prior.
Carbon also has a half life of 1500 years. Besides you can only accuratly measure some thing that has carbon in it. Something millions of years old would have no carbon to measure. Think of a bucket of water losing half of the water over 1500 years and so on. Eventually the water runs out and there is nothing to measure.
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Old January 11th, 2010, 10:12 PM   #63
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Did you just say the science behind it is a big bubble of suspended water (weighing billions of tons that would never suspend, let alone not block out the sunlight for the earth) was popped by an imaginary being?

I'm going to have to do some research into this. be back later.
Ozone and oxygen enriched environment. People heal faster, don't get as sick and if they do they heal more quickly. And yes live longer. Doctors are using a machine with oxygen enriched environment to heal stroke victims, brain injuries and various other aliments and are having tremendous success.
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Old January 11th, 2010, 10:16 PM   #64
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Ozone and oxygen enriched environment. People heal faster, don't get as sick and if they do they heal more quickly. And yes live longer. Doctors are using a machine with oxygen enriched environment to heal stroke victims, brain injuries and various other aliments and are having tremendous success.
What does this have to do with a giant water bubble in the sky?
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Old January 11th, 2010, 10:16 PM   #65
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Carbon dating is not accurate. Remember when Mt St.Helens blew? Well scientists took rock from the site and took it to be tested but did not tell then where the rock came from and it was dated through carbon dating method and was to be millions of years old, when in fact the rock had only been formed a few years prior.
Carbon also has a half life of 1500 years. Besides you can only accuratly measure some thing that has carbon in it. Something millions of years old would have no carbon to measure. Think of a bucket of water losing half of the water over 1500 years and so on. Eventually the water runs out and there is nothing to measure.
This google search took less than a second and was the first link. INFO ON CARBON DATING

60,000 years was an accurate cite
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Old January 11th, 2010, 10:18 PM   #66
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Ozone and oxygen enriched environment. People heal faster, don't get as sick and if they do they heal more quickly. And yes live longer. Doctors are using a machine with oxygen enriched environment to heal stroke victims, brain injuries and various other aliments and are having tremendous success.
This machine is called a Hyperbaric chamber. They are also used in chronic wound healing (i.e diabetes). As noted already what does this have to with the topic?

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Old January 11th, 2010, 10:30 PM   #67
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I find this interesting that different people say different things even though only one thing was printed, as in two people here were saying noah being 900 years old is symbolic, then another is talking about a billion ton bubble of water floating in the sky filtering out bad things to make noah live 900 years.

I was raised very very catholic, so I'm pretty knowledgeable with the bible, not kerwin smart, but pretty smart. So I find it interesting to see how different people exaggerate, change, and mutate the statements in the bible to different things, and this is just in one generation. Can you imagine how much has changed in the last 4,000 years?

Do you religious fanatics ever sit down and take a moment to read (non religious biased) science data? I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm just saying the more you know about two sides of a subject, the more information you have to base your decision on. For myself, when I discovered science and evidence, it changed my mind. But for others, it happened the exact opposite. It's just interesting to me to see different views on the subject.
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Old January 11th, 2010, 10:35 PM   #68
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So what I should get from this is if I get a michael jackson bed I can live to 950 years old?
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Old January 11th, 2010, 10:43 PM   #69
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Genesis 1:6 -



That seems pretty self Explanitory.
do bible people make jokes like

"they wrote about your mom in ezekiel 23:19-20"
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Old January 11th, 2010, 10:53 PM   #70
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ok l4cx, I'm being serious again, if you take that from the bible, do you mind if I post up some of my favorite lines, and you tell me what they mean in a literal sense? Or will you say that certain ones are symbolic, as opposed to being real? If your water bubble is real, why not some other verses?

leviticus 10:1 and leviticus 10:2 somebody burned the wrong scent incense, so god struck him dead

now why the hell did he do that? That's not nice. If I was god, I would have at least beamed him up unto the billion ton water bubble just to mess with him. After all, he did burn the wrong incense, i'd be pissed!
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Old January 11th, 2010, 11:00 PM   #71
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How about Kings 2:23-24.

A couple kids make fun of a guy because he's bald, so God summons two bears who kills and eats 42 kids.


God, THAT'S NOT NICE!
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Old January 12th, 2010, 10:00 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
ok l4cx, I'm being serious again, if you take that from the bible, do you mind if I post up some of my favorite lines, and you tell me what they mean in a literal sense? Or will you say that certain ones are symbolic, as opposed to being real? If your water bubble is real, why not some other verses?

leviticus 10:1 and leviticus 10:2 somebody burned the wrong scent incense, so god struck him dead

now why the hell did he do that? That's not nice. If I was god, I would have at least beamed him up unto the billion ton water bubble just to mess with him. After all, he did burn the wrong incense, i'd be pissed!
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How about Kings 2:23-24.

A couple kids make fun of a guy because he's bald, so God summons two bears who kills and eats 42 kids.


God, THAT'S NOT NICE!

Prepare yourself for old testament vs. new testament speech.

I'm just sayin'...
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Old January 12th, 2010, 11:10 AM   #73
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Prepare yourself for old testament vs. new testament speech.

I'm just sayin'...
x2 and that it was interpreted wrong, they aren't kids, they are unruly teenagers.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 11:24 AM   #74
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I find this interesting that different people say different things even though only one thing was printed, as in two people here were saying noah being 900 years old is symbolic, then another is talking about a billion ton bubble of water floating in the sky filtering out bad things to make noah live 900 years.

I was raised very very catholic, so I'm pretty knowledgeable with the bible, not kerwin smart, but pretty smart. So I find it interesting to see how different people exaggerate, change, and mutate the statements in the bible to different things, and this is just in one generation. Can you imagine how much has changed in the last 4,000 years?

Do you religious fanatics ever sit down and take a moment to read (non religious biased) science data? I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm just saying the more you know about two sides of a subject, the more information you have to base your decision on. For myself, when I discovered science and evidence, it changed my mind. But for others, it happened the exact opposite. It's just interesting to me to see different views on the subject.


The only difference between you and I is that I chose not to care enough about the bible at a certain point and I do not remember much off hand. I have to research to find things now.

It is kind of funny, in a way. This past Saturday I attended to funeral services, and another the week before.
All three were of different religions, one being of the religion I was raised.
All 3 purported to read from the bible yet all of the services were different. In fact the last one quoted directly from the bible and contradicted what the first 2 services said.
Now, it really does not matter what religion or denomination said what, the point is that hey all read a book, interpret it to fit thier agenda and then come up with other explanations to discount the passages they do not believe.
And then, passages which they believe, sort of, become symbolic.

What did I get out of it all? What did I find? I found hypocrisy, once again.

I also found that being a Christian is perfect for Christians, being a Witness is perfect for a Witness, being a Baptist is perfect for a Baptist, being a Muslim is perfect for a Muslim, being a Buddhist......well, the more I see the more I think that is perfect for most anyone.

And being an Athiest, or agnostic, or whatever is perfect for those that feel that way.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 01:59 PM   #75
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I find this interesting that different people say different things even though only one thing was printed, as in two people here were saying noah being 900 years old is symbolic, then another is talking about a billion ton bubble of water floating in the sky filtering out bad things to make noah live 900 years.

I was raised very very catholic, so I'm pretty knowledgeable with the bible, not kerwin smart, but pretty smart. So I find it interesting to see how different people exaggerate, change, and mutate the statements in the bible to different things, and this is just in one generation. Can you imagine how much has changed in the last 4,000 years?
I don't exaggerate, I was simply explaining the train of thought behind it. And as I've stated before, I"m not certain which is true. To be honest, it doesn't really matter as long as the Point is carried through, More so for the Sake of the Gospel. I think you'll find that most churches argue about stupid stuff like Baptism or tongues but they rarely, if ever, argue the base theological Background of the Christian Faith. What you're seeing is exactly why heaven is going to be so cool. No body will fight, we'll all get to do what we were Purposed to do, and biggest of all, We'll understand why God does what he does. I would think that Everyone would be happy with that Senerio.

Quote:
Do you religious fanatics ever sit down and take a moment to read (non religious biased) science data? I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm just saying the more you know about two sides of a subject, the more information you have to base your decision on. For myself, when I discovered science and evidence, it changed my mind. But for others, it happened the exact opposite. It's just interesting to me to see different views on the subject.
I actually do, for the exact same reason you do; to Get both sides. That's also why I'm on here alot. I really want to get how people think things, not just push my faith, which is also something I try not to do. Just Explain it. I enjoy being Challenged, it usually Strengthens my faith. When it doesn't, It brings me to a Different view then I once Held. But, I can Almost Guarrantee that I can see God's Design in just about any scientific Data. I'm a firm believer that science is a tool to bring glory to God. That's what it's Original Founders planned it to be IMO.

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do bible people make jokes like

"they wrote about your mom in ezekiel 23:19-20"
No we don't, We just call them a whore. Most Christians I know aren't alter boys. We joke around just like anyone else. And Actually, that Is referring to Israel as a nation, not an actually women. That is one of our favorite verses to show to people for shock value. They say "That's in the Bible?"

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ok l4cx, I'm being serious again, if you take that from the bible, do you mind if I post up some of my favorite lines, and you tell me what they mean in a literal sense? Or will you say that certain ones are symbolic, as opposed to being real? If your water bubble is real, why not some other verses?

leviticus 10:1 and leviticus 10:2 somebody burned the wrong scent incense, so god struck him ......!
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How about Kings 2:23-24.

A couple kids make fun of a guy because he's bald, so God summons two bears who kills and eats 42 kids.


God, THAT'S NOT NICE!
Actually, That just shows why we needed Christ. In an odd sort of way. Both of those are examples of people breaking laws and getting punished. The first actually makes complete sense because they were offering a wrong kind of incense and in order to even do that in the Temple they had to be of a Certain Linage and upraising. Levities actually, the priests of the Old Testament temple. It also shows Disrespect to God, and to one of his Prophets. I just can't help but think how bad it would be if that were to happen to Disrespectful teenagers now....They'd all be dead. That pretty much goes with the second one two. Good thing Christ came and loosened up the restrictions eh?

Those two that you gave me actually make complete literal sense if you read them with the proper understanding of the Culture and Time. Back then is not now....Putting our norms on them is not the proper way to look at it and I feel that is why you find them odd.


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The only difference between you and I is that I chose not to care enough about the bible at a certain point and I do not remember much off hand. I have to research to find things now.

It is kind of funny, in a way. This past Saturday .......

I don't think alot of Churches act they way you think they do. Agenda's? Really? Sure, there are some that are abusing thier power, Just like the Roman Catholic church during the Crusades, but that doesn't mean they all are. Most follow the bible and use it to help people.

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Old January 12th, 2010, 03:57 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
How about Kings 2:23-24.

A couple kids make fun of a guy because he's bald, so God summons two bears who kills and eats 42 kids.


God, THAT'S NOT NICE!
They where the Polar Bears on Noahs ark and they where hungry from the boat ride so they ate 42 kids......Whats the big deal.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 05:10 PM   #77
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I'll leave the public debating to you guys...you seem to be doing a good job. I just found the conversation interesting here.

I had the opportunity to hear a guy by the name of Josh McDowell speak this weekend. Good speaker. Born and raised in Union City, MI. His story is interesting. During his college years he set out with the intentions of disproving Christianity/Bible and ended up converting himself through his own research. He wrote a book called "Evidence That Demands a Verdict". I haven't read it and probably won't (my mind is already made up and I am not much of a reader). I talked to a couple of guys that said they had read it and found it to be very good. Might be a good one for you guys that like to do the science vs religion comparison. It is my understanding that he wrote it from the science/realistic angle.

Don't know if it would help with the Noah's Ark debate but I thought I would toss it out there.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 05:20 PM   #78
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I'll leave the public debating to you guys...you seem to be doing a good job. I just found the conversation interesting here.

I had the opportunity to hear a guy by the name of Josh McDowell speak this weekend. Good speaker. Born and raised in Union City, MI. His story is interesting. During his college years he set out with the intentions of disproving Christianity/Bible and ended up converting himself through his own research. He wrote a book called "Evidence That Demands a Verdict". I haven't read it and probably won't (my mind is already made up and I am not much of a reader). I talked to a couple of guys that said they had read it and found it to be very good. Might be a good one for you guys that like to do the science vs religion comparison. It is my understanding that he wrote it from the science/realistic angle.

Don't know if it would help with the Noah's Ark debate but I thought I would toss it out there.

He is a great speaker! My dad is a big fan of his. He reads just about every book he writes. I've never read That specific book but I do hear it's very good. Can't hurt to read it though. If you mind is made up then there is no loss (except for time) in reading it. I may just have to as well.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 07:18 PM   #79
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I find this interesting that different people say different things even though only one thing was printed, as in two people here were saying noah being 900 years old is symbolic, then another is talking about a billion ton bubble of water floating in the sky filtering out bad things to make noah live 900 years.

I was raised very very catholic, so I'm pretty knowledgeable with the bible, not kerwin smart, but pretty smart. So I find it interesting to see how different people exaggerate, change, and mutate the statements in the bible to different things, and this is just in one generation. Can you imagine how much has changed in the last 4,000 years?

Do you religious fanatics ever sit down and take a moment to read (non religious biased) science data? I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm just saying the more you know about two sides of a subject, the more information you have to base your decision on. For myself, when I discovered science and evidence, it changed my mind. But for others, it happened the exact opposite. It's just interesting to me to see different views on the subject.
The atmospher in biblical days was very enriched with oxygen as in a hyperbaric chamber. That is were the big bubble in the sky comes to play as a reference to.
There are also other references that can be read about from scientists that have a Christian point of view and believe it or not but it also makes sence.
You say you are knowlwdgeable about the bible but do you know the bible? Having book knowledge and wisdom are two completely different things. I am sad to hear that only science and secular evidence was enough for you to look away from the Lord.
As in Mattew 24:4 Watch out that no one decieves you.
Maybe read all of chap. 24. It is relevent to today.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 07:30 PM   #80
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I don't exaggerate, I was simply explaining the train of thought behind it. And as I've stated before, I"m not certain which is true. To be honest, it doesn't really matter as long as the Point is carried through, More so for the Sake of the Gospel. I think you'll find that most churches argue about stupid stuff like Baptism or tongues but they rarely, if ever, argue the base theological Background of the Christian Faith. What you're seeing is exactly why heaven is going to be so cool. No body will fight, we'll all get to do what we were Purposed to do, and biggest of all, We'll understand why God does what he does. I would think that Everyone would be happy with that Senerio.



I actually do, for the exact same reason you do; to Get both sides. That's also why I'm on here alot. I really want to get how people think things, not just push my faith, which is also something I try not to do. Just Explain it. I enjoy being Challenged, it usually Strengthens my faith. When it doesn't, It brings me to a Different view then I once Held. But, I can Almost Guarrantee that I can see God's Design in just about any scientific Data. I'm a firm believer that science is a tool to bring glory to God. That's what it's Original Founders planned it to be IMO.



No we don't, We just call them a whore. Most Christians I know aren't alter boys. We joke around just like anyone else. And Actually, that Is referring to Israel as a nation, not an actually women. That is one of our favorite verses to show to people for shock value. They say "That's in the Bible?"





Actually, That just shows why we needed Christ. In an odd sort of way. Both of those are examples of people breaking laws and getting punished. The first actually makes complete sense because they were offering a wrong kind of incense and in order to even do that in the Temple they had to be of a Certain Linage and upraising. Levities actually, the priests of the Old Testament temple. It also shows Disrespect to God, and to one of his Prophets. I just can't help but think how bad it would be if that were to happen to Disrespectful teenagers now....They'd all be dead. That pretty much goes with the second one two. Good thing Christ came and loosened up the restrictions eh?

Those two that you gave me actually make complete literal sense if you read them with the proper understanding of the Culture and Time. Back then is not now....Putting our norms on them is not the proper way to look at it and I feel that is why you find them odd.





I don't think alot of Churches act they way you think they do. Agenda's? Really? Sure, there are some that are abusing thier power, Just like the Roman Catholic church during the Crusades, but that doesn't mean they all are. Most follow the bible and use it to help people.
I knew if I read enough I would find wisdom here and not just book knowledge.
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