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Old January 4th, 2010, 07:22 PM   #1
sbcrichie
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Default front single triangulated four link question

wanted to get some of your guys thoughts on a front triangulated four link that has the lower arms triangulated instead of the uppers, the lowers would be wide at the axle end and narrow at the frame and the uppers would not be triangulated. my question is this design makes the roll center height 0. what effects will that roll center height have? ive seen other rigs set up like this i am just wondering the pros and cons.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 07:37 PM   #2
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What are you using to determine a roll center of 0? It's typically at the height of the upper links and usually pretty flat. It's not the most common link style but it is one of the better packaging designs. Desired roll center height is dependant on what you want to do with the vehicle, go slow and handle well or go fast and handle well.

How flat are the links? What would this be going into? Jimmy's 4x4 builds almost all of their rigs with paralell upper links and they do well in everything they do.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 07:46 PM   #3
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i put one in the 4 bar calculator. and moved some of the mount heights around and always came out at 0 roll center height. the rig is multi purpose rocks trails and dunes. im kind of going towards the KOH style of rig takes high speed bumps well but can still get it done in the rocks. what kind of antisquat do most prerunner/baja style of trucks run?

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Old January 4th, 2010, 08:32 PM   #4
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the setups are all over the map. I wouldnt run a single triangulated for going fast. double triangulated with full hydro or a 3 link and track bar with hydro assist.

are you sure the roll center height was 0 and not the angle?
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Old January 4th, 2010, 08:38 PM   #5
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yea it was the roll center height. i would do a double triangulated but i was trying to keep from putting link mounts in the center on top of the axle to keep the ride height lower. yea i see jimmys is doing the style i want to so it must be decent. what are some good numbers to shoot for on the front?
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Old January 4th, 2010, 08:43 PM   #6
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It depends on what you're building and what you want it to handle like. If you just want some general numbers to build to safely then a quick search here will get you a lot of numbers that will get you in the ball park. From there you can make adjustments based on desired handling.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 08:49 PM   #7
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ok thanks
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Old January 4th, 2010, 09:16 PM   #8
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interesting that you are always getting 0 for roll center height.

I pulled up the calc and ran a 4-link with the double triangulated and single triangulated on the lowers (aka satchel link) and compared the roll center heights of the two. The difference was that the satchel link had a roll center height about 4" lower (21 vs 25).

Are you talking roll axis? That did go from -5 (roll understeer) to 0 (flat) at ride height when going from double triangulated to satchel.

Post up some pics of your calcs.

We put a satchel up front on my friend's BTF chassis. I don't think he's gonna run KOH, but it does great bombing trails, playing at the dunes, and in the rocks. Here's some pics of the setup:

http://www.misfitoffroad.com/phpbb/v...hp?f=28&t=9555
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Old January 4th, 2010, 09:31 PM   #9
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i just started playing with the calc so maybe im not doing something right? one thing that seemed funny to me is it seems like you would need more than on measurement for the cog. it only asks for the cog height? not sure how to post pic of the calcs. im not running koh either just changing my rig to be more that style.

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Old January 4th, 2010, 10:01 PM   #10
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here's something to start from:
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Old January 5th, 2010, 04:41 PM   #11
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hmm this is wierd i put your info into my calc and came up with a 0 roll center height? then is switched it to uppers triangulated and lowers parallel and then i got a roll center height of like 20 inches or so.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 05:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbcrichie View Post
hmm this is wierd i put your info into my calc and came up with a 0 roll center height?
Not possible.... Unless you screwed with the cells and the formulas dont work anymore. Delete your calculator and download the newest version and put the numbers in very carefully and dont screw up the X Y and Z directions. If you hold your curser over them most will give you a description of what it is or what is needed.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 05:31 PM   #13
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ok will do
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Old January 5th, 2010, 06:19 PM   #14
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looks like i have an older version than you guys were did you guys download yours from?
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Old January 5th, 2010, 06:27 PM   #15
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He always posts the updates here:
New Version of my 4-link Analyzer & Request for Help - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board


but the latest as of now is here:
http://mysite.verizon.net/triaged/fi...rLinkV3.1d.zip
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Old January 6th, 2010, 07:54 AM   #16
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I just had a random thought that might have something to do with it. If the upper links are perfectly paralell it might make the equation too long and complex and default to a 0 value. Try and make the links .100-.200" out of paralell so they have a convergence point that isnt too far out into space.
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Old January 6th, 2010, 10:07 AM   #17
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if you take a look at the numbers I posted, I have the upper Y values equal to one another and it solved it.
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Old January 6th, 2010, 08:08 PM   #18
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i got the newer version downloaded and now i ran into a problem of the roll center and roll axis having pound signs in them and its saying err 508 next to the roll axis. but if i go to the travel tab it calculated them fine? i emailed the guy that wrote the program and he said he hasnt seen that error but hes going to look into it. but otherwise i seem to have it working. so im not really seeing a disadvantage of the satchel link and it will allow much more clearance between the axle and engine.
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Old January 6th, 2010, 09:15 PM   #19
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triaged thinks the err508 has something to do with me using open office instead of excel.
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