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Old November 18th, 2009, 08:17 AM   #21
knaffie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevotass View Post
only thing i would add after your done is a nice strong set of tube doors for side protection.
I am planning to make a set this spring. A few of the people that have ridden in my truck said they felt a little easy with no door there, even with the 5 points on.

I also already bought a set of manual (no power anything) doors from a friend in North Carolina (completely rust free) that I will be making a set of quick-release (Jeep style) hinges for. Right now, I have to take the whole inner panel off, disconnect all the wires, pull them through the doors, then pound the hinge pins out (they are not easy to get to). Its a 2 person job. When I'm done with these, I'll just open the door and lift it off like a Jeep door. Well, that's the plan anyway we'll see how it works out.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 09:25 AM   #22
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Looks good. I'm amazed at how much bigger the 42s look.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 09:28 AM   #23
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Looks good. I'm amazed at how much bigger the 42s look.
The old 39.5 only measured about 37.5 IIRC. I was very disappointed when I got them mounted. The new ones measure 41.5 with 20 PSI. So numerically I'm going up 2.5" in tire size, but in reality, I'm gaining 4".
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Old November 18th, 2009, 11:01 AM   #24
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sweet rig.i am doing a 03 f150 now.40 iroks air shocks front, leaves rear.1 tons.i like how clean your build is.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 11:41 AM   #25
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Looks good. I'm amazed at how much bigger the 42s look.
Getting new ideas with the V8?
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Old November 19th, 2009, 09:41 AM   #26
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I need a little guidance here from the smart guys, please..........

I made some changes with 3 things in mind........
1. I'm projecting the lowers to be about 6" longer and a little more inboard than they were originally shown above.
2. I would also like to drop the axle side uppers down a few inches to help keep the truck sittling lower to the ground without getting into the oil pan.
3. I was told by a friend to keep the AD closer to 50%

So...........

If I move the lower frame mount back 6", AD goes from 94% to 65%. From there, if I move the axle side upper mount down 2", AD goes from 65% to 22%. From there, if I move the frame side upper mount down just 1", it goes from 22% to 46% - a lot closer to the target of 50% suggested.

BUT..........now it looks as if the links are nearly parallel, which I thought I was supposed to avoid. Also noticed my instant center numbers are way out of whack now, presumably because of the way the links converge way out in front of the truck, instead of mid body. Where do you suggest I go from here? I could keep toying around, but I'm a little confused which direction I need to head.


Last edited by knaffie; November 19th, 2009 at 09:46 AM.
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Old November 19th, 2009, 09:49 AM   #27
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Why stay away from the upper and lowers being parallel to each other? As you may have noticed, the closer to parallel they are, the lower the AS/AD% drops.

Have you played with the travel numbers? How does the roll axis change through travel? If it starts increasing, you may have some roll steer on rougher roads.
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Old November 19th, 2009, 10:06 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyJ View Post
Why stay away from the upper and lowers being parallel to each other? As you may have noticed, the closer to parallel they are, the lower the AS/AD% drops.

Have you played with the travel numbers? How does the roll axis change through travel? If it starts increasing, you may have some roll steer on rougher roads.
You guys will have to bear with me. I'm still very much learning this stuff. I've done hours and hours of reading, but this is my first attempt at playing with numbers and seeing the resulting output.

Honestly, I don't recall why (I would have to look through my saved threads / material to find it) but I remember the general consensus being that parallel link are to be avoided. I thought I wanted the vertical separation at the frame to be about 3/4 of what the axle side vertical separation is, which does not put them parallel.

I haven't played with the travel much yet. I am assuming at least 14", maybe 16". If I plug in 16" for travel and droop it, the roll axis goes from 6.87 to 32.18. Honestly I need to research some more to know what that means. When you say "some" roll steer, is it enough to be of concern?
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Old November 19th, 2009, 10:08 AM   #29
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One more thing to mention. Inherent to the S10 is a short front driveline, thus angle problems. I do need to try to set this up so the pinion rotates up during droop. I know one way is to make the upper link longer than the lower, but that looks completely not feasible for me.
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Old November 19th, 2009, 10:09 AM   #30
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i think you should always try to keep your upper links as close to the same length as your lowers.
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Old November 19th, 2009, 10:37 AM   #31
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Very cool.
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Old November 19th, 2009, 12:43 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knaffie View Post
3. I was told by a friend to keep the AD closer to 50%



If I move the lower frame mount back 6", AD goes from 94% to 65%. From there, if I move the axle side upper mount down 2", AD goes from 65% to 22%. From there, if I move the frame side upper mount down just 1", it goes from 22% to 46% - a lot closer to the target of 50% suggested.

BUT..........now it looks as if the links are nearly parallel, which I thought I was supposed to avoid. Also noticed my instant center numbers are way out of whack now, presumably because of the way the links converge way out in front of the truck, instead of mid body. Where do you suggest I go from here? I could keep toying around, but I'm a little confused which direction I need to head.
50% AD is ok for the front, it's a nice target but it isnt as critical as the rear. If you cant hit 50% cleanly just make it as balanced as you can without making any one thing perfect but sacrificing everything else. In other words, dont jump through hoops to hit 50% if anything else will suffer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyJ View Post
Have you played with the travel numbers? How does the roll axis change through travel? If it starts increasing, you may have some roll steer on rougher roads.
X2, what it does through the 2-3" either side of ride height is more important than teh static ride height numbers being "golden". if the average looks better at 65% than it does at 50% then the choice should be obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knaffie View Post
Honestly, I don't recall why (I would have to look through my saved threads / material to find it) but I remember the general consensus being that parallel link are to be avoided. I thought I wanted the vertical separation at the frame to be about 3/4 of what the axle side vertical separation is, which does not put them parallel.

I haven't played with the travel much yet. I am assuming at least 14", maybe 16". If I plug in 16" for travel and droop it, the roll axis goes from 6.87 to 32.18. Honestly I need to research some more to know what that means. When you say "some" roll steer, is it enough to be of concern?
14" of travel is plenty. Theres no need to avoid paralell links if things just seem to work out that way. Since you have the offset in X/f-r on the frame side mounts your links are gong to cycle in and out of paralell through the range of travel. It's not super critical but I'd try to keep the links paralell to pointed in at full droop. It's just a guide... nothing is really a deal breaker until the numbers get way out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2mx View Post
i think you should always try to keep your upper links as close to the same length as your lowers.
That's not needed. Shorter uppers can actually help get the AS/AD and IC better throughout the travel than (edit) equal length links. Everything has a trade-off.

Dont get too hung up the details, When you're on the fence about a decision, do whatever will get your links flatter at ride height or the critical numbers more even throughout the travel. Those seem to be the only constant things that results in a "good" handling setup.

Last edited by 95geo; November 19th, 2009 at 01:53 PM.
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Old November 19th, 2009, 01:17 PM   #33
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Thank you for a great reply!
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Old November 19th, 2009, 01:20 PM   #34
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Very nice build. Hope to see this thing on the trail some time (or at the dunes).
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Old November 19th, 2009, 01:42 PM   #35
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this is a sick zr2 if i got one to build i would want it to look like this
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Old November 19th, 2009, 03:02 PM   #36
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From your latest screen shot I would try to move the upper links around a little bit. If you can, try to move the axle end up 1" to get a little over 8" of vertical seperation and then move the frame side down 1-1.5" and also move the mount back towards the lower frame side a little further, maybe 2" if you can get that much. If my eyeball is calibrated well enough that'll make everything a little better.

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Old November 19th, 2009, 04:02 PM   #37
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Quote:
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X2, what it does through the 2-3" either side of ride height is more important than teh static ride height numbers being "golden". if the average looks better at 65% than it does at 50% then the choice should be obvious.
Exactly. Whether you are cruising two tracks up north or running between trails at some place like Harlan, you don't want your roll axis moving around a lot as your moving that 2-3" either side of ride height at speeds of 15-30mph.

5-10* is marginal that you'll be feeling bump steer, and if it gets too much higher while in the first 2-3" of travel, it could start to get an oscillation feeling. Not crazy like death wobble on an XJ/TJ driving down the highway, but more like the wobbles you get when you miss a landing on a BMX bike and the handle bars are swinging back and forth just before you go over the handle bars.
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Old November 19th, 2009, 04:17 PM   #38
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Thanks for the help, guys. I'll be back on this in a week when I get back from vacation. Until then, Adios!
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Old November 20th, 2009, 09:04 AM   #39
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I think it was admiring sarcasm. Truck looks good.
yep he had it right on the money.. the i just had to poke a lil' fun dont feel bad, i am doing a 455 pontiac, d60, 14bb setup under my waggy.. and it will be a wimp too..
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Old November 23rd, 2009, 12:38 PM   #40
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this rig is badass - very nice work and upcoming steps. Looking forward to the upgrades!
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