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Old October 23rd, 2009, 10:20 AM   #21
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Guess I am just not surprised by anything anymore. I hope for the best, but expect the worst. If the best happens I am good, if the worst happens I am not let down too much.

I really do think that health care reform is needed and that the plans (which need tweaking) in Congress right now have a chance of doing more good than harm. Based on what is written.
I think most of us are in with you on the first part. The problem is the worst is usually what we get. We deserve better than that. We need to raise the standards so we get the best and we are surprised when the worst happens.


I think most of us think that health care reform is needed in some way. The biggest problem I see right now is they don’t seem to be very in touch with us. They just want to get something passed.


You argument is "based on what is written". That’s fine to a point. Do you remember not too long ago when MI said you were going to get ticketed for not wearing seat belts? I am pretty sure it was written that you couldn’t get pulled over for not wearing a seat belt. It was to be a secondary offense. Now if they think you weren’t wearing one they can pull you over and tear apart your car if they feel like it.

The problem is they put some B.S. down on paper to get it to pass. Then while we are sleeping they add this and add that and take away this and fvck us over night. A few months down the road and we are at death panels and them deciding to let babies die on the table because it costs too much to take care of them.

If it happens in other countries it can happen here. We know our government is full of greedy S.O.B.s that care more about their bottom line than really doing what is right. Not all but more than there should be. Do you really want to trust you health or your families to their best judgment?

Come on over to the dark side with us Pete. Trust me its not so bad over here. We have beers
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 02:14 PM   #22
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My problem with this whole thing is that I am perfectly happy with my health care. Then again, I work hard and I pay a lot of money for it. You won't have high quality doctors working long hours for no money. Also I am really tired of people saying they make too much money because they work hard and pay a lot of money to become a doctor. I think Americans feel that too many things that have been traditionally worked for are now rights. Everyone wants a hand out instead of getting off their ass and working.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 02:39 PM   #23
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embrace obamacare
[IMG]o.O
uncalled for
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 02:41 PM   #24
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Medicare does work, it is abused and there is waste and fraud, but the dispensing of medical care to those eligible and in need does work.
Medicaid is the same.

Don't confuse theft, fraud and waste with ability to provide good health care to recipients.
EXACTLY.

Let's work on fixing what the Fock is broken, not replace workable programs with the unknown.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 02:50 PM   #25
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uncalled for
I guarantee you 100% obama would do that to mine, yours or anyone elses' kids in the blink of an eye. period. only a weak minded simpleton would trust him otherwise.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 03:05 PM   #26
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I guarantee you 100% obama would do that to mine, yours or anyone elses' kids in the blink of an eye. period. only a weak minded simpleton would trust him otherwise.
Obama would line up a mother and child and have a Nazi shoot them at the same time?

While I do not like the guy, statements like that make you appear a few sq. ft. short of a tinfoil hat.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 03:16 PM   #27
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Obama would line up a mother and child and have a Nazi shoot them at the same time?

While I do not like the guy, statements like that make you appear a few sq. ft. short of a tinfoil hat.
oh, you were referring to that picture. whilst it is true the nazis practiced that to kill two with one bullet you need to understand that photo.

you have completely missed the point of why I posted that excellent historical image. do your homework then come back and tell me why I posted that particular picture.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 03:39 PM   #28
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Obama would line up a mother and child and have a Nazi shoot them at the same time?

While I do not like the guy, statements like that make you appear a few sq. ft. short of a tinfoil hat.
I don't like Obama but I agree with this statement.....
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 03:57 PM   #29
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A horrible story indeed.

But this is not what is envisioned for the helath care reform bill in Congress. Sorry, it is just not.
See H.R. 3200. Section 1233 (beginning on p. 425)

http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=3728#



Shocking information about directives on Pages 425-430 of the House Health Care Bill.





Page 430 mandates a “New Benefit” for patients and families which is essentially counseling on how to cut your life short. The government over time will begin to shape these “directives” and the conseling to reduce cost to the overall system. Translation, encourage the removal of life sustaining treatments. Counseling on foregoing antibiotics, nutrition and hydration to promote the termination of life. Now the government will be encouraging and counseling families, patients and doctors on how to withhold treatment to decrease the cost of treating the elderly.

Who will be paying for the health care bill ??? The elderly will pay indirectly by have access to LESS care as it rationalizes the value of life as the government regulates who should and should not get medical procedures.


DANGEROUS ASSAULT ON THE ELDERLY

Comparative Effectiveness Research — code for denying Care based on a patient’s birth date is being promoted in the plan. This is all about big brother government taking over your freedom of choice!!! The amount of power the government will have over the physician and nurse practitioner is mind boggling when you read it.

On page 425 it says in black and white that EVERYONE on Social Security, (will include all Senior Citizens and SSI people) will go to MANDATORY counseling every 5 years to learn and to choose from ways to end your suffering (and your life). Health care will be denied based on age. 500 Billion will be cut from Seniors healthcare. The only way for that to happen is to drastically cut health care, the oldest and the sickest will be cut first. Paying for your own care will not be an option!!
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 04:31 PM   #30
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oh, you were referring to that picture. whilst it is true the nazis practiced that to kill two with one bullet you need to understand that photo.

you have completely missed the point of why I posted that excellent historical image. do your homework then come back and tell me why I posted that particular picture.
Rather than play into your delusional self-superiority, I am humbled by your boundless knowledge of obscure references and retire from such mental fortitude to quaff PBR for the evening.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 04:41 PM   #31
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See H.R. 3200. Section 1233 (beginning on p. 425)

http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=3728#



Shocking information about directives on Pages 425-430 of the House Health Care Bill.





Page 430 mandates a “New Benefit” for patients and families which is essentially counseling on how to cut your life short. The government over time will begin to shape these “directives” and the conseling to reduce cost to the overall system. Translation, encourage the removal of life sustaining treatments. Counseling on foregoing antibiotics, nutrition and hydration to promote the termination of life. Now the government will be encouraging and counseling families, patients and doctors on how to withhold treatment to decrease the cost of treating the elderly.

Who will be paying for the health care bill ??? The elderly will pay indirectly by have access to LESS care as it rationalizes the value of life as the government regulates who should and should not get medical procedures.


DANGEROUS ASSAULT ON THE ELDERLY

Comparative Effectiveness Research — code for denying Care based on a patient’s birth date is being promoted in the plan. This is all about big brother government taking over your freedom of choice!!! The amount of power the government will have over the physician and nurse practitioner is mind boggling when you read it.

On page 425 it says in black and white that EVERYONE on Social Security, (will include all Senior Citizens and SSI people) will go to MANDATORY counseling every 5 years to learn and to choose from ways to end your suffering (and your life). Health care will be denied based on age. 500 Billion will be cut from Seniors healthcare. The only way for that to happen is to drastically cut health care, the oldest and the sickest will be cut first. Paying for your own care will not be an option!!
I fear this and see it two ways:

1. The government is taking some of the public's wishes of assisted suicide seriously and will enable people to evaluate their suffering. (really morbid for a government to do, and kind of "Soylent Green")

2. The government fully realizes a public healthcare bill will overload the resources we have and people will need to go without. The obvious targets are the elderly, as they represent a "double whammy" - convince them to die and: a. you don't have to pay to treat them; b. you don't have to pay out SSIP benefits to dead people.

We have programs that work when they are applied correctly - again, let's fix the damn problem, not create more.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 05:02 PM   #32
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A horrible story indeed. But this is not what is envisioned for the helath care reform bill in Congress. Sorry, it is just not.
it probably not whats envisioned, but sooner or later its what you will get!

what has our government ever made better?? nothing. they screw up everything. this will be worse! this will kill people!
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 07:16 PM   #33
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Rather than play into your delusional self-superiority, I am humbled by your boundless knowledge of obscure references and retire from such mental fortitude to quaff PBR for the evening.
there is nothing to play into here.

just so you know that photo is one of the most famous propaganda attempts of photo manipulation. printed in a variety of media it is perhaps one of the best examples of photographic lies.

here is the original image that is rarely shown


the woman and child were added to the image and then cropped to appear as an act of brutality. it is the starkness of the cropped image that hides in plain sight the fact that the shadows on the woman are completely incorrect for the light source in the image along with a host of other inconsistancies. it took some years for the complete story of the image to be told. the soldier in fact is not aiming at the woman and the woman is not even on the same plane as the soldier.

the reason for the picture was to parallel the so called healthcare reform bill ie: what we see isn't really the truth and in fact they will hide obvious oppressions in plain sight of the masses.

this was among the many photographs we studied in college in understanding propaganda, emotional effect and subliminal advertising.

Last edited by ovrlnd; October 23rd, 2009 at 07:21 PM.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 08:06 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by amc78cj7 View Post
See H.R. 3200. Section 1233 (beginning on p. 425)

http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=3728#



Shocking information about directives on Pages 425-430 of the House Health Care Bill.





Page 430 mandates a “New Benefit” for patients and families which is essentially counseling on how to cut your life short. The government over time will begin to shape these “directives” and the conseling to reduce cost to the overall system. Translation, encourage the removal of life sustaining treatments. Counseling on foregoing antibiotics, nutrition and hydration to promote the termination of life. Now the government will be encouraging and counseling families, patients and doctors on how to withhold treatment to decrease the cost of treating the elderly.

Who will be paying for the health care bill ??? The elderly will pay indirectly by have access to LESS care as it rationalizes the value of life as the government regulates who should and should not get medical procedures.


DANGEROUS ASSAULT ON THE ELDERLY

Comparative Effectiveness Research — code for denying Care based on a patient’s birth date is being promoted in the plan. This is all about big brother government taking over your freedom of choice!!! The amount of power the government will have over the physician and nurse practitioner is mind boggling when you read it.

On page 425 it says in black and white that EVERYONE on Social Security, (will include all Senior Citizens and SSI people) will go to MANDATORY counseling every 5 years to learn and to choose from ways to end your suffering (and your life). Health care will be denied based on age. 500 Billion will be cut from Seniors healthcare. The only way for that to happen is to drastically cut health care, the oldest and the sickest will be cut first. Paying for your own care will not be an option!!

Instead of reading that website and quoting their opinions, why not go to the actual bill they are referring and see for yourself. I did. I posted t on this site.

I debunked it.

Many others with more expertize have debunked it.

But don't believe others, go read for yourself.

BTW, the conseling is not a nefarious as they would have you believe and already exists in Medicare and private insurance. It involves information on will and estate planning. How to get medicare benefits and other items that the elderly may need to know. It is also not Mandatory, there is nothing in that bill that says it is mandatory. It is completely voluntary. There are also safe guards for those who can not make rational decisions for them selves. Family advocates or other advocates. It is not a "Death Panel" as the right has tried to make it seem.
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Old October 31st, 2009, 04:59 PM   #35
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action is required now
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Old October 31st, 2009, 07:54 PM   #36
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5.5 millions jobs lost???

We can't decide to get private insur? WTF??
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Old October 31st, 2009, 08:35 PM   #37
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We have bigger issues to deal with, why are the trying to push health care? The economy, jobs, two wars, swine flu and whats next to think about.
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