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Old October 9th, 2009, 08:32 PM   #1
Ianstein
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Default anyone using high strength steel?

I'm just curious if anyone out there has been building anything with HSLA (High Strength Low Alloy) steel?

I've noticed lately the trend in products is to build thicker and heavier. I know that's the obvious way to make products stronger, but it's not the only way. After digging around a bit I noticed none of the major players offer anything made from HSLA steels and I was wondering if anyone has experimented with some homebrewed projects.
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Old October 9th, 2009, 09:05 PM   #2
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That stuff can be very hard to work with. And if welded on will effects its hardness.

I work in the collision industry and the manufacturers are using it more in cars every year.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 09:16 AM   #3
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most guys are strapped for cash when doing mods

you night find one or two guys that think whey are the hard cor offroader that needs to shave some weight but most if are not when the cash gets factored in
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Old October 10th, 2009, 09:46 AM   #4
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firehawk you bring up a good point. Alot of higher strength steels do have formablity problems due to their extra hardness making them brittle.

Has anyone ever heard of Domex 100XF steel? From what I understand it's kind of a newer thing here in the US, but pretty common in Europe (produced in Sweden). I work for a large scale metal and chassis fabricator and we've started to explore using it in various applications. I don't want to make this sound like a sales pitch, but this steel is pretty amazing from a fabricators viewpoint. It can be formed on a bend radius as small as 1.6x material thickness. I've personally watched a square of it get formed in half and then formed in half again without cracking.

I come mainly from the world of drag racing and chassis manufacturing for the RV/Bus market. Weight is a huge issue in those areas. It pretty much determines everything about the design of the final product. Less weight equals lower material costs, less stress on weight bearing components, more payload or passenger capacity.

I'm bringing this up because for shits and giggles I'm currently building some bumpers and diff covers from Domex 100XF. They should be about half the weight of their 1011 steel counterparts and be equally as strong. I'm curious if anyone would have any interest in buying armor made from HSLA. As far as pricing goes, although HSLA is more expensive per lb, its price doesn't fluctuate like normal steel because it is 100% ore based. SSAB, the producers of Domex control the price, not the market. For example last summer when steel prices shot up they were about 5 cents cheaper per lb than Domex. Since typically you can use Domex that is 1/2 the thickness of normal steel, you'd actually wind up with a product that was less expensive.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 10:10 AM   #5
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Actually, it's also made by SSAB in Mobile Alabama on a machine that we built. It looks like it's similar to an AR250. Probably good stuff for what you want. The big key is that to weld it properly, you should be preheating and post heating which is a big PITA and time consuming.

Chemical composition
C % Max Si % Max Mn % Max P % Max S % Max Al % Min Cb % Max Ti % Max
0.12 0.60 2.0 0.025 0.010 0.015 0.09 0.20

Mechanical properties
(acc. to ASTM A6)
Yield Strength Ksi Tensile Strength Ksi
Min. (MPa) Min. (MPa)
100 (690) 110 (760)
Elongation (2") %
Minimum Hardness HB
Approximate
250


I'll contact my customer and find out what it's actually comparable to.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 10:28 AM   #6
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This thread just went way over my head at this time. Thanks for sharing tho.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 10:59 AM   #7
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By the way, the market controls the pricing, not SSAB. The biggest reason high yield plate is so expensive is that there are not that many producers around North America, or the world for that matter in combination with the alloys and heat treat processes required.

The best (flattest) thin gauge Armor plate, HSLA, 514B, etc is made by Evraz Oregon Steel in Portland. On it's heels is SSAB Mobile, and in Conshohocken at Arcelor/Mittal but A/M's equipment is out dated. Nucor Steel in Hertford, SC is currently building a plant to run thin gauge. Algoma Steel makes Armor Plate but struggles under about 5/16" and is looking at new equipment to run the thinner gauges. There are some other suppliers but these are the big guns.

SSAB Sweden has widely been considered the best high yield plate manufacturer in the world. But with the changes at Oregon and Mobile, and with what's coming at Nucor, that isn't true any more. The good 'ol USA is coming on strong with some unique equipment built right here in Michigan.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 11:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
By the way, the market controls the pricing, not SSAB. The biggest reason high yield plate is so expensive is that there are not that many producers around North America, or the world for that matter in combination with the alloys and heat treat processes required.

The best (flattest) thin gauge Armor plate, HSLA, 514B, etc is made by Evraz Oregon Steel in Portland. On it's heels is SSAB Mobile, and in Conshohocken at Arcelor/Mittal but A/M's equipment is out dated. Nucor Steel in Hertford, SC is currently building a plant to run thin gauge. Algoma Steel makes Armor Plate but struggles under about 5/16" and is looking at new equipment to run the thinner gauges. There are some other suppliers but these are the big guns.

SSAB Sweden has widely been considered the best high yield plate manufacturer in the world. But with the changes at Oregon and Mobile, and with what's coming at Nucor, that isn't true any more. The good 'ol USA is coming on strong with some unique equipment built right here in Michigan.
You don't know how bad I needed to hear that.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 11:16 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
You don't know how bad I needed to hear that.
Glad to offer up meaningless dribble.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 01:35 PM   #10
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You're right about SSAB in Mobile....completely forgot about them...pretty sad considering that's where our last buy of domex came from lol.

Just curious do you know what brand names the others sell theirs under? My company is just getting into HSLA and are mainly familiar with Domex, but I know Alro and Central Steel also carry their own brands. However most of their sales guys don't have a clue where they source most of their steel from.
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Old October 10th, 2009, 09:00 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ianstein View Post
You're right about SSAB in Mobile....completely forgot about them...pretty sad considering that's where our last buy of domex came from lol.

Just curious do you know what brand names the others sell theirs under? My company is just getting into HSLA and are mainly familiar with Domex, but I know Alro and Central Steel also carry their own brands. However most of their sales guys don't have a clue where they source most of their steel from.
No, not off hand. I don't deal with the trade name or end market side of things.
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 07:41 AM   #12
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Ok, finally got a short answer back from my customer.

"Talked to our metallurgist and he stated that the Domex 100 is a 100 ksi minimum yield plate, very hard material, only made as-rolled so it's not heat treated."
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Old November 12th, 2009, 10:27 PM   #13
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So is this stuff going to be easy to work harden if trying to drill holes in it?? If welding it and having to work it like a tool steel I can't imagine that using a plasma is going to be that good for it either.

Just saying. I know anything can be done with the right tools, but ease of improving, adding, stuff to bumpers is one thing that a common general grade steel is awesome for.

I do currently know of a large market that would desire a very strong light weight tummy tuck/engine skid. I use 1/4 and it's fricken heavy..but 3/16 would have failed.

I didn't take the time to study the elements you specified...but I understand things better with comparisons also.
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