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Old October 17th, 2009, 09:46 AM   #21
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That my friend is a pork barrel in all its glory and unfortunately both sides are very guilty of doing this.
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Old October 18th, 2009, 01:00 AM   #22
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ok then the U.S. goverment is guilty of this hate crime and is the ring leader. The military in order to make sure the new recruit will pull the trigger. Trains the new guys to the point that they hate the people they are going up against. It's a tactic they have been useing since WWI. Plus when they get over to Iraq and so on they hate being there so theres more hate right there.
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Old October 18th, 2009, 09:06 PM   #23
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I am sick of people shoving morals down my throat and legislating their personal moral beliefs.
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Old October 18th, 2009, 09:16 PM   #24
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ok then the U.S. goverment is guilty of this hate crime and is the ring leader. The military in order to make sure the new recruit will pull the trigger. Trains the new guys to the point that they hate the people they are going up against. It's a tactic they have been useing since WWI. Plus when they get over to Iraq and so on they hate being there so theres more hate right there.
How do you know this? Or is it your own opinion of hate? and how it works. You make a good point but I will require hard evidence that this is how hate is manufatured and not just your hatred for the military and this country.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 02:11 AM   #25
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I don't hate either one. Still love my country even tho it's going down the tubes, and proudly served in the military for almost 10 yrs.The part about WWI I saw and learned from a program on the History channel.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 07:54 AM   #26
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I am sick of people shoving morals down my throat and legislating their personal moral beliefs.
Thank you. Why cant people understand you can't legislate morality?
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Old October 20th, 2009, 08:13 AM   #27
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Thank you. Why cant people understand you can't legislate morality?
Because you can't fix stupid.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 08:30 AM   #28
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I don't hate either one. Still love my country even tho it's going down the tubes, and proudly served in the military for almost 10 yrs.The part about WWI I saw and learned from a program on the History channel.
Yes this country seems to be going down the tubes and it is the left in this country that is taking us down that path with the political correctness and everybody deserves something or has a right to something.
It is a priviledge to be an american.
One that can serve in the military such as yourself is probably the greatest service one can do for his country, and I thank you for that.
As for the history channel, what they spout off about is a lot like the spin that politions put on things its like the movie the da vinci code, taking bits of fact and weaving it around fiction to make it appear truthful which is deception.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 10:39 AM   #29
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I agree with you .But in the begining of WWI america losts were high. There were really no war vets to teach and train recruits, with the newer weapons , Alot of the new guys had a hard time shooting another human, so training was changed to hate and if you don't kill him then he'll kill you. My grandfather told me about the tactics the Marines used for WWII when he was in. Till the day he past he had nightmares .
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Old October 20th, 2009, 11:59 AM   #30
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I heard today that in the bill to fund the military also is the bill for hate crimes legislation.
To me this sounds like a dirty trick to get hate crimes bill passed and funding for the military.
So if one is against the hate crimes bill and does not vote for it, then he is labelled as one to not support the military.
Why are they allowed to combine one bill with another in this fashion?
It is a way of deception that the use to get their way. Sad sooo sad that the dems have to stoop to a new low to get what they want
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That my friend is a pork barrel in all its glory and unfortunately both sides are very guilty of doing this.
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It seems like something wrong with that.

Yes, this has been going on forever. It is the give and take of politics. It is practiced in every party, during every session of congress and by every administration.

Introduce a bill and then add riders to curry favor among those that normally would not vote for your bill.

What I find interesting, Aber, is that you only see this as a problem of the left. Have you just not been that engaged in politics before? Have you simply turned a blind eye when those on the right do this? Or are you just that partisan that you will blame the left for anything and everything?


And since you brought up the unpatriotic labelling when someone does not support the military, where were you during the last administration?

Any "nay" vote associated with any military funding bill was touted in the right wing media and by the the right wing politicians as an unpatriotic act. Even if that "Nay" vote was tied to a meeting adjournment vote. I remember Democrats voting against military spending bills because of no time line for withdrawal, or not enough spent on personel protection, ar maybe a rider similar to the one you are compaining about ne. There were said to not support the military and that they wished soldiers to die. Of course, nothing could have been further from the truth. A "Nay" vote, in and of itself is not a sign of not being a patriot as you may finally be finding out.


And you are right, there is something wrong with that. But it is a "scratch my back and I will scratch yours" kind of world in D.C.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 12:01 PM   #31
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I am sick of people shoving morals down my throat and legislating their personal moral beliefs.


Me too.

Stop any future anti abortion legislation, since shoving morals down our throats is not right.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 11:50 PM   #32
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Me too.

Stop any future anti abortion legislation, since shoving morals down our throats is not right.
I would really like to see those annoying slave laws removed first.
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Old October 21st, 2009, 08:23 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
Yes, this has been going on forever. It is the give and take of politics. It is practiced in every party, during every session of congress and by every administration.

Introduce a bill and then add riders to curry favor among those that normally would not vote for your bill.

And you are right, there is something wrong with that. But it is a "scratch my back and I will scratch yours" kind of world in D.C.
The important part is that it is wrong and should not be allowed. I dont care which side is doing it.
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Old October 21st, 2009, 08:23 AM   #34
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Me too.

Stop any future anti abortion legislation, since shoving morals down our throats is not right.
Agreed.
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Old October 21st, 2009, 09:46 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
Yes, this has been going on forever. It is the give and take of politics. It is practiced in every party, during every session of congress and by every administration.

Introduce a bill and then add riders to curry favor among those that normally would not vote for your bill.

What I find interesting, Aber, is that you only see this as a problem of the left. Have you just not been that engaged in politics before? Have you simply turned a blind eye when those on the right do this? Or are you just that partisan that you will blame the left for anything and everything?


And since you brought up the unpatriotic labelling when someone does not support the military, where were you during the last administration?

Any "nay" vote associated with any military funding bill was touted in the right wing media and by the the right wing politicians as an unpatriotic act. Even if that "Nay" vote was tied to a meeting adjournment vote. I remember Democrats voting against military spending bills because of no time line for withdrawal, or not enough spent on personel protection, ar maybe a rider similar to the one you are compaining about ne. There were said to not support the military and that they wished soldiers to die. Of course, nothing could have been further from the truth. A "Nay" vote, in and of itself is not a sign of not being a patriot as you may finally be finding out.


And you are right, there is something wrong with that. But it is a "scratch my back and I will scratch yours" kind of world in D.C.
Yes I do find it a problem with the left wing democratic system. It is wrong.
I am not for big government. I assume you are?
Since they can't balance thier own books and run trillions of dollars in debt that we can't pay for.
No other president has never spent so much in such a short period of time and had nothing to show for it.
As for turning a blind eye, I see the grass on my side of the fence as green and you know the rest of the saying.
I have not seen anything from the left that is worthy of giving them an applase for. Or wait do we applaud them for pushing abortion to women because Obama is in favor of increased spending to control population and abortion is just the start.
During the last administrationI was here and I support the war. I would rather them fight on their front than here in our country, wouldn.t you?
As far as your ney vote from the left, that is a cheap way out for not to support the cause and make the look like the bad guy. Democratic politions are slippery scum bags with a forked tongues.
What is the deal with a time line anyway? The military has a job to do let them do. Besides Obama has lied about getting the troops, because he has increased troops and continued on the same time line as Pres. Bush and to add salt to the wound, Obama has increased troops in Afaganistan, but you knew that, right? So tell me where is your outrage that you had during the Bush admin. about withdrawl time line, soldiers dying. war and oil. The left cryed the blues, but I don't here em now. I wonder why? Nothing has changed except the president. HAIL OBAMA. Duh!
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Old October 21st, 2009, 10:05 PM   #36
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fail.

this legislation does not apply if the crime is committed by a black, hispanic, oriental, indian, arab or homosexual.

this only applies to white american born males whether it was in defense or not.
Winner!
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 12:23 PM   #37
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Yes I do find it a problem with the left wing democratic system. It is wrong.
So, it is a problem for the left, is it also a problem when the right does it? My point was that both sides do the same thing, yet you only focus on the left doing it and being wrong for it.


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I am not for big government. I assume you are?
You assume wrong. I am for a right sized government. Both sides of the aisle have created larger government. It is just that the right also tries to privatize what many consider essential services for the welfare of that nation and it's people.

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Since they can't balance thier own books and run trillions of dollars in debt that we can't pay for.
The rleft has been accused of being tax and spend, fair enough. The right are spend and debt of you ask me. Bush jr. racked up quite a deficit over his democratis predecessor.

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No other president has never spent so much in such a short period of time and had nothing to show for it.
No other president in recent history has been confronted with the type of dire situation we find ourselves in today. And part of the money spent was for plans supported by Bush jr. Bank and Wall street bailouts. TARP. Even the Car Industry loans. All programs started by the previous administration.


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As for turning a blind eye, I see the grass on my side of the fence as green and you know the rest of the saying.
Yes, "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence", from the Latin proverb: "Fertilior seges est alieno semper in arvo"

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I have not seen anything from the left that is worthy of giving them an applase for. Or wait do we applaud them for pushing abortion to women because Obama is in favor of increased spending to control population and abortion is just the start.
Sorry to correct you, no one is forcing abortion on anyone. It is called choice, but that is something you obviously "choose" not to understand.

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During the last administrationI was here and I support the war. I would rather them fight on their front than here in our country, wouldn.t you?
What war? The war on terror or the invasion of Iraq? I was all for the attack on Al-Queida and their enabler, the Taliban in Afghanistan. I am also in favor of attacking terrorists anywhere in the world they raise their ugly heads. I come from a country and continent that has dealt with international terrorism long before the first attack on the Trade Center in NYC. I support the Mossad and their way of doing things. They get right to the point.

I did not however trust the reason, nor support the invasion of Iraq. I thought it was wrong and unwarranted then, and history has supported that thought.

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As far as your ney vote from the left, that is a cheap way out for not to support the cause and make the look like the bad guy.
The Democrats support the soldier in the field and the military in general. Believing otherwise is tantamount to hiding your head in the sand.
The Democrats voted "yea" on plenty of funding bills. And in fact, many of them were outraged when there was not enough money being spent to properly outift our soldiers with personal armor and for armour for thier veihcles.



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Democratic politions are slippery scum bags with a forked tongues.
And Republicans are not? Look around. Read and listen.

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What is the deal with a time line anyway? The military has a job to do let them do.
The time line was to establish an exit strategy. A strategy the Bush team never figured out. Iraq was never supposed to be a long term occupation. A timeline would have established a goal for the Iraqi people to get their shit together.
The military's job was to take Saddam out of power and then help establish an interim government while a democratic election could be organized.


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Besides Obama has lied about getting the troops, because he has increased troops and continued on the same time line as Pres. Bush and to add salt to the wound, Obama has increased troops in Afaganistan, but you knew that, right?
Troops are being drawn down in Iraq. Watch the news.

Yes, Obama has increased troops in Afghanistan, and my send more if he decides it is necessary. He said this in the early days of his campaign.

What he promised was to get out of Iraq and put the focus where it should have been all along. On finding Osama and crippling Al-Queida. That was why troops were sent to Afghanistan in the first place. He is going back to square one in the war on terror.
He has also recently advocated surgical, overt (maybe covert) strikes against terrorists all around the worl. Of course to avoid WWIII there needs to be international consensus and cooperation. Something he has made strides in.

Quote:
So tell me where is your outrage that you had during the Bush admin. about withdrawl time line, soldiers dying. war and oil.
The outrage is still there. There are plenty of Democrats and others on the left calling for complete, immediate withdrawal.

Look, Obama did not start the 2 wars we are in right now. It was left to him by Bush. Republicans seem to forget that. Obama can not simply pull out of both countries overnight, even if he wanted to. It takes time to move that many troops. He is heading in that direction though, at least in Iraq. And is formulating an exit strategy for Afghanistan as well.

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The left cryed the blues, but I don't here em now. I wonder why? Nothing has changed except the president. HAIL OBAMA. Duh!
Many in this country will continue the outrage until every service memebr is home. But most of the outrage is still focused on those who got us into this mess in the first place. And that goes back to the previous President.
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 01:46 PM   #38
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The terrorists not the president Besides Bush needed approval from the also to go to war or do you over look that? Only to shift the blame to the other side. The terroist attacked us after the removal of saddam, that is why we are still there to this day.
As for your other points until later I am only home for lunch. See ya
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 04:38 PM   #39
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The terrorists not the president Besides Bush needed approval from the also to go to war or do you over look that? Only to shift the blame to the other side. The terroist attacked us after the removal of saddam, that is why we are still there to this day.
As for your other points until later I am only home for lunch. See ya
Yes, Bush got COngressional approval with information that was not accurate. This has been proven out over and over again. I have looked at the often.

Terrorists attacked us after the removal of Saddam? Care to elaborate?
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 04:54 PM   #40
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Yes, Bush got COngressional approval with information that was not accurate. This has been proven out over and over again. I have looked at the often.

Terrorists attacked us after the removal of Saddam? Care to elaborate?
So why is it Bushes fault for the miss information recieved and approved by congress. It is the fault of all who voted to go to war.
terrorists or freedom fighters flooded Iraq to fight the americans. We have done good at getting them out and defeating them in Iraq. The terrorists are now in Afaganistan and Pakistan, that is were we are now. we should continue the fight with them as long as the continue to fight us. Or give up and come home. They would love that, it would be spread across the muslim nations that the americans are a paper tiger nothing to fear and when the going gets tough we will turn tail and run.
So then we have another problem with coming home is that they will then attack us here on our ground. Do you think that there will be no american civilain casulties.
I believe there are terrorist cells sleeping in this country now and only waiting to be woke up and told to get to work. And if you think we are safe and have nothing to worry about then when we get our wake up call remember how you think this is a wrong war.
The terrorists will not stop until we as the infidel are dead or convert to Islam.
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