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Old September 13th, 2009, 08:37 AM   #21
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Before all you under 21's get too excited, the standard was actually lowered by this ruling. Instead of having to have a BAC .02 or higher on a PBT to get you for MIP, the cop now just has to say you looked and smelled as though you had consumed intoxicants to cite you for MIP
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Old September 13th, 2009, 08:41 AM   #22
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As usual.......people on this forum totally misunderstanding a law/court ruling.

Most cops have absolutely no problem with this ruling or the previous federal court ruling on the same subject. The system worked and peoples rights are protected. It changes very little in the way the police do things.
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Old September 13th, 2009, 08:55 AM   #23
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Before all you under 21's get too excited, the standard was actually lowered by this ruling. Instead of having to have a BAC .02 or higher on a PBT to get you for MIP, the cop now just has to say you looked and smelled as though you had consumed intoxicants to cite you for MIP
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As usual.......people on this forum totally misunderstanding a law/court ruling.

Most cops have absolutely no problem with this ruling or the previous federal court ruling on the same subject. The system worked and peoples rights are protected. It changes very little in the way the police do things.
I wish you 2 would talk to someone in law enforcement before you spout off.
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Old September 13th, 2009, 09:20 AM   #24
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IMO they have enough power to keep the roads safe now.
I stand by my earlier remark.

Unless I misunderstand the law; It is currently unlawful for persons under 21 to consume alcohol. Should an officer suspect alcohol is at play they need be seeking the warrant. It wouldn't matter if the levels of intoxication dissipate while this is happening - they still broke the law if it's found at all.

I'm not saying I support the idea that cops shouldn't be able to arrest drunks no matter what the age. But I'm sure many of you will agree there's far too much fast and loose law creating that slowly chips away at the so called freedom of citizens.
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Old September 13th, 2009, 09:27 AM   #25
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I stand by my earlier remark.

Unless I misunderstand the law; It is currently unlawful for persons under 21 to consume alcohol. Should an officer suspect alcohol is at play they need be seeking the warrant. It wouldn't matter if the levels of intoxication dissipate while this is happening - they still broke the law if it's found at all.
There are ten exceptions to the search warrant rule and many exceptions when the police can arrest without warrants. Until you know those by heart (like most cops do) I wouldn't try being a "street lawyer" if I were you.

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I'm not saying I support the idea that cops shouldn't be able to arrest drunks no matter what the age. But I'm sure many of you will agree there's far too much fast and loose law creating that slowly chips away at the so called freedom of citizens.
Your freedoms are being eroded by the people that YOU elect, not by the people who are hired and sworn to enforce the law.
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Old September 13th, 2009, 09:31 AM   #26
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Fast forward to modern times and would I want my kids subjected to breath tests to pacify power tripping law enforcement? No.

I respecfully disagree. I am raising my daughters to respect the law and responsible for their own actions. If a cop were to ticket one or both of my kids for underage drinking, I would thank the officer and give him a gift certificate to Applebees. I would then make my daughter(s) take care of the fines and court cost themselves so they understand the repercussions of their actions.

Yes I am a hardass. I love my kids with all of my heart but my only job in life is to make them productive members of society. Part of that job is NOT protecting them from poor decisions. This way they can learn from their mistakes.
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Old September 13th, 2009, 09:37 AM   #27
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I respecfully disagree. I am raising my daughters to respect the law and responsible for their own actions. If a cop were to ticket one or both of my kids for underage drinking, I would thank the officer and give him a gift certificate to Applebees. I would then make my daughter(s) take care of the fines and court cost themselves so they understand the repercussions of their actions.

Yes I am a hardass. I love my kids with all of my heart but my only job in life is to make them productive members of society. Part of that job is NOT protecting them from poor decisions. This way they can learn from their mistakes.
I think if there were more parents like you, america would suck less.
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Old September 13th, 2009, 09:40 AM   #28
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I think if there were more parents like you, america would suck less.
Thank you.
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Old September 13th, 2009, 09:46 AM   #29
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I respecfully disagree. I am raising my daughters to respect the law and responsible for their own actions. If a cop were to ticket one or both of my kids for underage drinking, I would thank the officer and give him a gift certificate to Applebees. I would then make my daughter(s) take care of the fines and court cost themselves so they understand the repercussions of their actions.

Yes I am a hardass. I love my kids with all of my heart but my only job in life is to make them productive members of society. Part of that job is NOT protecting them from poor decisions. This way they can learn from their mistakes.
x2. I raised 2 daughters, both whom are now married. I felt the same way and at times, I think they hated me during their teenage years. Was I a perfect parent? No, but parenting is an "on the job training" and you have to deal with situations that you've never dealt with before. But, I never complained when they were caught by someone else being out of line. I think society should do that more often. Open discussion is the best advice I can offer any parent.

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I think if there were more parents like you, america would suck less.
I would like to think that I can say thanks too. It's a shame that our society always wants to find a way to blame someone else.
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Old September 13th, 2009, 09:50 AM   #30
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...Until you know those by heart (like most cops do) I wouldn't try being a "street lawyer" if I were you.
Sounds like a power trippin' cop to me!
j/k I don't know you and I'm sure you've never pushed your authority out of bounds when one of those punk kids pissed you off...

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I respecfully disagree. I am raising my daughters to respect the law and responsible for their own actions. If a cop were to ticket one or both of my kids for underage drinking, I would thank the officer and give him a gift certificate to Applebees. I would then make my daughter(s) take care of the fines and court cost themselves so they understand the repercussions of their actions.

Yes I am a hardass. I love my kids with all of my heart but my only job in life is to make them productive members of society. Part of that job is NOT protecting them from poor decisions. This way they can learn from their mistakes.
I agree with your parenting sentiment but what these type of law changes opens the door too is when your kids are at the local McDonalds after the football game and not hanging with the bad crowd out in the parking lot. Said crowd was previously drinking and now acting up. Your kids leave while the cops are arriving and are caught up in the commotion. Far fetched example for your kids, maybe - but not at all an unrealistic scenario for many. Stuff like that happened to us growing up and has happened recently to college kids I know. Ultimately I agree with changing laws where it makes sense but not where it just makes things more convenient to encroach on citizens.
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Old September 13th, 2009, 09:51 AM   #31
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I'm tired of people blaming everbody but themselves when shit goes wrong. This is why we are dealing with the "hand out" generation.
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Old September 13th, 2009, 09:54 AM   #32
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I agree with your parenting sentiment but what these type of law changes opens the door too is when your kids are at the local McDonalds after the football game and not hanging with the bad crowd out in the parking lot. Said crowd was previously drinking and now acting up. Your kids leave while the cops are arriving and are caught up in the commotion. Far fetched example for your kids, maybe - but not at all an unrealistic scenario for many. Stuff like that happened to us growing up and has happened recently to college kids I know. Ultimately I agree with changing laws where it makes sense but not where it just makes things more convenient to encroach on citizens.
Excellent example of why I'm teaching my daughters about being responsible. If they find themselves in your above described situation, I want them to understand that there is risk associated with hanging around dumbasses. I also want them to understand that if they get stopped and questioned, a rightuous person has nothing to fear.

As my Dad used to tell me "If you run with the dogs, you're gonna get fleas.".
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Old September 13th, 2009, 10:14 AM   #33
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In my example the kids weren't hanging with the dumbasses. They were victims of being in the wrong place at the right time.

It doesn't matter how righteous a person is when needless clout is given to those with oppressive tendencies.
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Old September 13th, 2009, 10:38 AM   #34
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In the scenario above, the kids may get hassled a bit but will come out clean. They should have nothing to fear and in 99% of the cases, will learn that being polite and cooperative is not a sin.

I'm not in any way in favor of a cop pushing people around just because he has a badge and gun. On the other hand, he's putting his life on the line every day for all of us. If he has to be cautious and a bit authoritarian, then so be it. And if some young kid is innocent and gets mouthy, the cop still needs to maintain control.

When my kids used to get mouthy with me, I would tell them, you want to yell and argue, even if you are right, you're gonna lose. You want to discuss it like a young adult, I'll listen to your reasoning.

Sorry, but that's the way society works.
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Old September 13th, 2009, 12:00 PM   #35
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I'm not joining in on any arguments, but something like this needed to come down the line.

When I was in Traverse City around 1995, the police would stop just about anybody that looked underage and breathalyze them. Of course this was almost always on a Friday or Saturday night. It was almost to the point where you were better off driving than walking if you didn't want to get stopped. This was before the zero tolerance laws we have now, so you could drive as long as you didn't blow over the legal limit. Yes, that's some messed up logic, but that's the way it was going at the time.

I was stopped (walking) 7 times in a one year period. 6 times I was let go as I wasn't drinking, and I was issued a MIP citation the one time I was. They were writing tickets left and right.
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Old September 13th, 2009, 02:37 PM   #36
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No kidding. Remember when the legal drinking age was 18. All of us are still suffering from those hooligans
You were what, 4 yrs old at the time?

I got to drink legally for a month at 18....
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Old September 13th, 2009, 03:53 PM   #37
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this is all very intersting. so im underage, and a cop busted a party that im at, and they want to breathalize me, i could just say let me see a warrant? Or am i completely off?
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Old September 13th, 2009, 07:15 PM   #38
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this is all very intersting. so im underage, and a cop busted a party that im at, and they want to breathalize me, i could just say let me see a warrant? Or am i completely off?
If the police bust a party with underage drinking there is more than enough probably cause you will get a brethalizer even if you're not drinking you can get a minor in attendance.
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Old September 13th, 2009, 07:57 PM   #39
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this is all very intersting. so im underage, and a cop busted a party that im at, and they want to breathalize me, i could just say let me see a warrant? Or am i completely off?
If I have probable cause to believe you are underage and have been drinking I will arrest you. Handcuffs, jail etc. or maybe just a ticket and a call to your parents to come and get you. Post arrest I will make you aware of your Miranda warnings and request you to take a preliminary breath test which you can refuse and I will tell you that you have a right to refuse. Doesn't matter to me if you take the test or not. Cops are considered expert witnesses when it comes to testifying about a persons intoxication or whether or not they consumed alcohol.

If a kid cooperates with me, I'm really good to him and just give him a ticket and call mom & dad (and make sure they get home safe). If a kid wants to play lawyer they ride the rough road and get the full treatment. It's as simple as that.

Oh, and if I find out who supplied the alcohol to you I will arrest them too. Same rules of cooperation as outlined above. That is the law of the street. Cops hate assholes who think they are lawyers. Don't do it.
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Old September 14th, 2009, 08:21 AM   #40
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Thanks Hombre, that told me alot.
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