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Old September 4th, 2009, 09:51 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Fullsize4life View Post
Ok. Well i dont know how to break this to you kid. Your welds suck ass. ive been a certificated welder for 10 years,with multiple certs, including Nuke certs. PLEASE dont drive that on the road. If something fails on it and you kill someone their family will sue you and your family for everything you guys have. I have made bad welds. We all have. It happens. You got to take some advice here. PLEASE listen to someone.
but you have to admit, his welds are better than the average preschoolers!
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Old September 4th, 2009, 09:56 AM   #82
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I'll be the first to admit my welding could use some work. It looks to me like you arent using enough heat, and too much feed. Leaving you with a build up rather than a nice deep weld. Your right there is no way to know just buy looking at a picture if it will hold. Time will tell that.
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Old September 4th, 2009, 11:25 AM   #83
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To compare this thing to that ranger is not even close. I see nothing wrong with the rangers setup, the only thing he did was put a bushing between the leaf pack and the axle which is/was pretty common before link suspensions became popular.

Please find some common sense in the next few minutes or so and realize that this is not safe to drive on the road and save someones life or lives.

It's a shame that you are so bull headed.....
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Old September 4th, 2009, 12:20 PM   #84
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If it were me, before I threw away the factory's millions of dollars worth of R&D, I would look at some competition rigs to see how their suspension works. If I don't see anyone winning with a setup similar to what I dreamed up, then I's start copying the winners setup. I in no way would assume that my idea is superior and no one else had that stroke of genius.

And that's even if I were a world class welder, which I am not. (But my stuff still looks better than that)
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Old September 4th, 2009, 12:44 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by 95geo View Post
To compare this thing to that ranger is not even close. I see nothing wrong with the rangers setup, the only thing he did was put a bushing between the leaf pack and the axle which is/was pretty common before link suspensions became popular.

Please find some common sense in the next few minutes or so and realize that this is not safe to drive on the road and save someones life or lives.

It's a shame that you are so bull headed.....
This is true. And even the guy with the Ranger said "Screw it, I'm going to three link the rear."
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Old September 4th, 2009, 01:59 PM   #86
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Please do not drive this on the streets in St. Clair Shores as I don't want this to cause any harm to my girlfriend or her family that live there.

I am no expert but I know a good weld from a bad one. Please take the advice of the experienced welders and fabricators on this site, and Pirate for that matter.
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Old September 4th, 2009, 02:48 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Motorcitydak View Post
How do you know all my welds are not from only seeing a couple crappy pictures of them?
Because thats all it takes to look at a weld and know its crappy. And no one who can do a decent weld would lay a crappy one, and leave it that way.

I'm honestly suprised thats MIG, I've almost never seen that bad with MIG, I assumed it was stick, which people tend to be uglier at. You aren't keeping a correct and constant gun angle, puddle size, etc, so you have a weld that has porosity, poor penetration, and all kinds of stresses because its uneven.

Just becasue you haven't broken a weld doesn't mean they are correct. ITs pretty easy to MIG weld, there's no excuse for unsafe, improper welds. Not on suspension, especially.

What machine are you using? What are your settings? What type of shield gas are you using? What type and size of wire are you using? What polarity, and are use pushing or pulling the weld?

Those aren't to pick on you, its to try to find out what you are doing, to maybe help you do it better.
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Old September 4th, 2009, 04:14 PM   #88
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Just threw this together LIKE YOU DID YOUR RIG

YOU ARE SOOOOO RONG (yes I meant to spell it incorrectly for effect)

The axle hangs down from the flex joint that is bolted to the leaf spring. It can pivot back and forth on that joint, the only thing controlling it is the 2 lower links that you see in the drawing The link wants to move in an arc, the spring does not, it is over constrained and will limit your FLEX and add unneeded stress to the springs.

You got it (Nope, and I am so glad that I dont), my theory is that it will eliminate spring wrap because the axle bracket moved that bolt up 4/25 inches from the top of the axle. Your THEORY is RONG. Just like a dumb lifting block, the spring wrap will INCREASE because your spring is further away from the axle. Your flex joint may help reduce some of the "wrap" but the force is not going to disapear and will flex your spring longitudinally probably resulting in an "S" type of bending on the compression side of the spring.

When you take off, the axle wants to rotate the pinion upward and wrap the spring. With my rear, it tried to pull the bolt in the flex joint backwards and pull on a straight leaf spring. Since the lower links are mounted at the axle center line it will not resist ANY of the axle wrap. NOT AT ALL!! Look at a simple traction bar (or read about how they work) and you will see.

The only way it could cause wrap is that the flex joint and plate have the bolt about 2 inches below the spring. That is still better than having the axle bolted to the springs because the center of the axle tubes are about 3 inches below. Again, it is not working how you think it is. There is still a torque thru your "lifting block thingy" that needs to be resisited by the spring, the links arent doing anything to reduce the axle wrap force.

Couple that fact with the brackets that have the bolt about 6 inches about the axle center line and the torque that would normally wrap a spring is greatly diminished. This might help reduce the spring wrap but very insignificantly. More importantly, it will be adding all the stress on the springs in two locations along the sharp edge of the spring sandwich plate thingys. SNAP!
Sorry, but you are so far off on this whole design and you refuse to listen to people that know what they are talking about. Not only that, but when and if you do hurt someone with this design you will have no defence. I am sure the lawyers will get ahold of this thread and the thread on Pirate for proof that you are a wreckless, ignorant, selfish, stuborn, (insert negative explative here!)

Cut all that shit off of the back of your truck, start over, and also redo the front coil over mounts at the same time. The coil over mounts MIGHT be OK for a shock mount but not for a coil over! NO F-ing WAY! Both ends of that vehicle are built incredibly half assed and extremely unsafe for road use! By the way, your welds are just the nails in the coffin (hopefully not literally).

Last edited by Mr.Green456123; September 4th, 2009 at 04:55 PM.
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Old September 4th, 2009, 04:38 PM   #89
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i dont get what the big deal is, i think it looks good.















well said mr green
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Old September 4th, 2009, 04:39 PM   #90
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Not that this guys build is much less of a waste of time, but at least he understood the basics. Notice the lower link mounting locations? (I will make it very clear BELOW THE AXLE CENTER LINE!) Notice how short his flex joint mounts are? Cant make them much shorter can you? Wonder why? Notice the curved edges on his spring plates?




No need for a track bar if you would have triangulated the lowers as well.


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Old September 4th, 2009, 05:14 PM   #91
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And they said the Wright brothers would never fly!!!!
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Old September 4th, 2009, 10:37 PM   #92
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move build thread to booty fab?

I'm all for looking at new ways to do things, out of the box style... but before you throw time and money and [effort?] into building something like this, you need to get some more welding experience [the welds to the axle are rough man, and the ones on the front panhard bar [frame?] mount are SCARY bad].

There are lots of ways of testing an idea out before building it. We've got 3 and 4 link calculatrors, CAD software with kinematic joint modeling capability, etc, etc.

I'm over the weirdness of using a leaf spring as the spring on a link suspension. If you want to have 6 additional pivots for no added benefit and additional overconstraint, great. Use a leaf spring to control lateral movement while adding in a pivot underneath each spring pack? No.

As many others have commented, you are going to have some serious axle wrap or windup issues as the lower links remain relatively fixed, and the pinon attempts to bend your leaves [which are already bent bad!! we can see it in your pics]. Ever think about what will happen when you use reverse and now have a pivoting shackle willing to give you a LOT more spring length?

My suggestion:
Cut off those pivots under the springs, build a couple traingulated uppers. Use the pivots at the axle end and buy two sets of poly bushings to use on the frame end. Throw those nasty S-shaped leaf packs in the recycling bin, and use some ZJ front springs to suspend your truck above the axle. Have someone else weld this stuff on too while you watch and learn some technique. There's no shame in that, we've all done it.

No more axle wrap, we might remove your build thread from the booty fab forum, and your truck will handle well. It's win win win win win.

You have a nice truck, the hemi swap is cool, the front end is nice (FOA's up there, right), I'd add an engine x-bar over top, but that's just me.

You're on the right track, motivated, just need to work on the execution.
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Old September 12th, 2009, 02:05 PM   #93
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Im going to guess that some of you thought I got killed over the weekend since I have not been on here to give an update. Well like I said, I took the truck up to the gaylord area over the labor day weekend for some wheelin and to see how everything is working. I am not satisfied with the rear suspension, but it never actually gave me any problems. I do have some excessive body roll now from the rear which is my fault obviously. Especially since I never ran it thru a calc to see where my roll center was. Im not totally sure what I am going to do with the rear yet, but Im thinking of just calling up either Alcan or Deaver and having a set of rears made for me at the lift I want. Its either that or I am going to make a rear xmember and triangulated lowers. Id just get new brackets and use another 9 inch housing I have since the rear is sitting up way too high for my liking. I still do not regret doing this, I learned a lot and it has been something I have always wanted to build anyway. It just really needs a sway bar that I dont have the room for.

I did have some problems tho and I appologize to anyone who was headed north on I-75 at the zilwaukee bridge between 8-845. The fuse block I put it to power the Hemi computer built up corrosion between the + distribution block and a mounting screw that finally shorted out during the trip. It fried my optima red top that I had for 7 years and left me stranded for 4 hours on the bridge. It was just at 8 was when my buddy and a car hauler showed up and someone called the cops. I had a state boy sitting behind us and he blocked the left lane until we got the truck onto the trailer which was fun with only 2 ratchet straps and no come along or chain fall. So again, im sorry for that.

Anyway, Im leaning towards the custom leafs in the back now, I just hate cutting out rivets. I also do not want to build a xmember that will have to hang so far down since it will have to clear the driveshaft at full droop. I think it will just kill my ground clearance. Hopefully I will get my old job back soon so I can actually afford to do that. Im also going to be practicing on my welding and try to get in a class for it soon, again just need the money. Dune Jump, yes those are 14 inch travel 2.0 coil overs in the front, I also just got 2 FOA 2.5 4 inch travel air bumps for the front. I ordered em a while ago and got held up by a seal issue or they would already be in. There is an unbolt-able engine xbar, but I just never took a pic of it.

O, and my spring plate do have a 1/2 inch chamfer on the on the edges where the leaf rides so it does not have a shear point at the end. I did F up my lower mounts in that they are not at or below axle center. I had the axle hanging from the leafs and the pinion angle was not set when I welded the brackets on so when I put everything together I rotated the axle up a little and that moved the mount to above the axle center. I also cannot do a 4 link because I do not want to move my gas tank. So again, I think custom leafs are looking like the way to go for me and Ill just use these to hold em on this time http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/...page=1&sort=2a.

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Old September 12th, 2009, 02:23 PM   #94
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thank you for pulling you head out of your ass to fix this
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Old September 12th, 2009, 04:06 PM   #95
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that thing is scary man. how old are you? do you have a family?
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22 and not one of my own
wtf is that suppose to mean? Not one of my own??
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Old September 12th, 2009, 05:15 PM   #96
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that means that I dont have a family of my own=wife/kids, that sort of thing

I just spent some time running my shit thru a 4 link calc and there is no way that I will be saving this design. Ill just have to leave it for a little while then Ill pull it and throw some custom alcan's in there
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Old September 12th, 2009, 05:27 PM   #97
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Last i checked, this was Michigan law:
Quote:
All parts used to modify the original suspension or height of a motor vehicle shall be factory manufactured
lift laws & bumper heights - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest
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Old September 12th, 2009, 05:48 PM   #98
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I didn't read any of it here or there, so sorry if its been said, but did he just make a ladder bar 10x more complicated and jewie?
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Old September 12th, 2009, 06:18 PM   #99
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there are several talented Fabricators (95 Geo, Hosejockey, xjeeper.. Just to name a few) on this site.. im sure one of them would be willing to help you build a proper 4 link on some tj coils or something to keep the cost down..
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