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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:07 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Well, for me the line is where there is consent. Consent can't be given by a child, legally. This is something I don't understand about Conservative Christians. They talk about personal freedoms and rights, but can't wait to tell people what they can and can't do. Yes for me, I think consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want with each other as long as they do not harm anyone else. I don't think this applies to pedophiles and children. Their actions harm the children. I'm sure they are born that way, but their actions harm others, which is where their rights end. A homosexual's actions do no harm to anyone.

----------

I hope you're not talking about me. I don't tell people what to do. I tell them the Eternal consequences of thier actions, but I don't tell them not to. Ultimatly it comes down to choices and nobody can make choices for you. Although, I will admit that there are many of my fellow brothers and sisters that do not share my more passive viewpoint in this situation.

^^^^^^^
I get what you're saying about Consent. But also in that aspect wouldn't that mean that you are making a Case that children under that certian age shouldn't take part in Sexual activity? Being as they can't give Consent? I know, It's devils advocate.

Also, I would ask anybody that's had Gay sex if it harmed them. I'm sure there are statistics of gastrointestinal harm done by that kind of action. I know it wouldn't be pleasant for me.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:13 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
You think that somebody who is doing heroin is harming anyone else, or how about the new thing, cutting yourself, consenting adults should not be interfeared with on this issue, RIGHT, it's not hurting anyone else....
Yup. How libertarian of me...
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:18 PM   #143
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----------

I hope you're not talking about me. I don't tell people what to do. I tell them the Eternal consequences of thier actions, but I don't tell them not to. Ultimatly it comes down to choices and nobody can make choices for you. Although, I will admit that there are many of my fellow brothers and sisters that do not share my more passive viewpoint in this situation.

^^^^^^^
I get what you're saying about Consent. But also in that aspect wouldn't that mean that you are making a Case that children under that certian age shouldn't take part in Sexual activity? Being as they can't give Consent? I know, It's devils advocate.

Also, I would ask anybody that's had Gay sex if it harmed them. I'm sure there are statistics of gastrointestinal harm done by that kind of action. I know it wouldn't be pleasant for me.
Well, not you in particular, but the people who vote to keep people from doing what they want to. I imagine you have voted to restrict people from doing things or supported politicians who want to restrict, yes? Isn't that the same thing?

Yes, I would agree that children under a certain age shouldn't have sex. Who doesn't? Who's the devils advocate? Did you think that I was a proponent of pre-teen sex?

I'm sure there have been plenty of women who have injured their vaginas from heterosexual sex. That's just a part of the whole "consenting adults" thing.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:19 PM   #144
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Well first of all, and I think I speak for most guys here, two women having sex together is pretty hot.

But seriously, how has homosexuality torn apart the fabric of YOUR family unit? Please tell me what heterosexual family HAS had the fabric of their family unit torn apart by homosexuality.
Homosexuality in general breaks down the family unit.

Child molestation is done by an adult to the child. The said child grows up all messed up and at that point this child now an adult will molest children or control himself with children or will engage in homosexual acts with consenting adults.

It is a cycle that continues and with out help and counceling will continue.

This said man now will continue to be a gay man or a striaght man with a FAMILY.

You see not so hard to figure out how it affects the FAMILY UNIT.

Some here seem to be very inteligent but with the comments I have been have to wade through I'm not so sure.
I believe it is more emotion driven thought, which at that point the debate is no longer credible.
By allowing emotions to drive thought then one cannot stay focused on topic
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:24 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Homosexuality in general breaks down the family unit.

Child molestation is done by an adult to the child. The said child grows up all messed up and at that point this child now an adult will molest children or control himself with children or will engage in homosexual acts with consenting adults.

It is a cycle that continues and with out help and counceling will continue.

This said man now will continue to be a gay man or a striaght man with a FAMILY.

You see not so hard to figure out how it affects the FAMILY UNIT.

Some here seem to be very inteligent but with the comments I have been have to wade through I'm not so sure.
I believe it is more emotion driven thought, which at that point the debate is no longer credible.
By allowing emotions to drive thought then one cannot stay focused on topic
So, child molestation causes homosexuality and more child molestation?? Link me to the conservative un-think tank you have been reading up on.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:26 PM   #146
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Homosexuality in general breaks down the family unit.

Child molestation is done by an adult to the child. The said child grows up all messed up and at that point this child now an adult will molest children or control himself with children or will engage in homosexual acts with consenting adults.

It is a cycle that continues and with out help and counceling will continue.

This said man now will continue to be a gay man or a striaght man with a FAMILY.

You see not so hard to figure out how it affects the FAMILY UNIT.

Some here seem to be very inteligent but with the comments I have been have to wade through I'm not so sure.
I believe it is more emotion driven thought, which at that point the debate is no longer credible.
By allowing emotions to drive thought then one cannot stay focused on topic

Laughing too hard to think of any thing to say
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:26 PM   #147
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It's clear to me that it states that THEY believed in a creator, but it's equally clear that they decided in the end to leave the creator out of the affairs of man.

As I keep saying, these values you keep calling Christian aren't exclusive to Christianity, so let's just agree that Buddhists, Hindu, etc. pretty much have the same value set, just maybe disagree on things like creation, afterlife, etc. But the main rules of life remain pretty much constant across the religions. If you can't agree on that then you probably know little about them, and I can help you there if you like.


Next, Christianity is a relatively new religion in the grand scheme of things. One of your most articulate and well researched allies on this site, RyBread, can attest to that.There were other societies with other belief systems around (and some are still in practice today) long before Christianity that had the same 'rules of the road' for human relations, so to assert any claim to the inception of such values is arrogant and wrong.

This is in no way intended as an argument against the existence of your god. Only against the claim that good values were invented and held only by christians.
Don't forget that Christ Fullfilled the Jewish prophesies. So, while Christianity may be realitivly new, the laws and the God that I serve and the religions there of, are really quite old. The God of the jews is the God I serve today. Also, technically it's the God that Islams worship too.....They just use different rules because one son got mad at the other. I'll probably have to explain that, I will if I have to.

I'm not saying that they are exclusively Christian, but I can tell you that the Men who founded this country came from a Culture that was forcably Christian. That's why they came here to give freedom to all men. A Freedom they believed to be given to them by a Creator.

Also, I don't see these as Arguements either. Otherwise I wouldn't make the random stupid jokes that I do everyonce in a while. Yelling and screaming Opinions is pointless. It's fun to talk about what other people think and to explain what I think to other people.

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Weak argument at best. Same could be said for left handed people, athletic people, those with talent, murderers, etc.

Realistic people do not equate gays with pedophiles. What you are doing is trying to relate to the lowest common denominator in the thinking of the masses in order to turn those masses against a law abiding segment of our society.
I was more or less trying to figure out the line. You're completely right in saying that it could be said about just about everybody. I used the Pedophile extreme to get a point across. While they are completely different, in some ways they are the same.

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Creator may have intentionally been left as a very vague term.

I believe my parents created me, so in doing so with the help of Mother nature in her infinite powers, I am endowed with certain unalienable rights.

What I find funny when people use that line to argue about Christian values ias how the countries values have changed so much since that line was written. At the time of writing, not all men were created equal in the eyes of that very document. You were equal if you we a man, a free man, a white man, a property owning free white man. Everyone else had less, if any rights under that document.

So, to use that line and say that "creator" meant some kind of Christian god, while subjugating many is, IMO, hypocritical at best.
I never say it's my God. I say that it's an intelligent force. I believe it's my God, but I don't dare say it is because I don't know (100% sure at least). Your parents are intellegent forces. Some one has to turn on the Barry white right?

And yes, the countries values have changed and some are for the good, some are for the bad. Personally, I think Seperation of church and state was a bad idea because of the way this country was set up. Not at all saying that the church should run the state but I do think that the state (or maybe it's leaders) should be held to a higher power. It would make things that have been done, and bills that have been passed, alot harder to do.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:27 PM   #148
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Yup. How libertarian of me...
Better that liberal, How about the consenting adult part.

Also since you have revieled your new libertarian image I'm sure we can assume your pissed about the government sticking their nose into your consenting adult choice as to health insurance, or maybe the governments infuence over your kids being allowed to pray in school, after all it's not hurting anyone.

When are you going to start screaming for smaller and less intrusive government....

Libertarian, thats the best thing you've put up in a long time....
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:29 PM   #149
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Well, not you in particular, but the people who vote to keep people from doing what they want to. I imagine you have voted to restrict people from doing things or supported politicians who want to restrict, yes? Isn't that the same thing?

Yes, I would agree that children under a certain age shouldn't have sex. Who doesn't? Who's the devils advocate? Did you think that I was a proponent of pre-teen sex?

I'm sure there have been plenty of women who have injured their vaginas from heterosexual sex. That's just a part of the whole "consenting adults" thing.
Consenting Adult???? I'm still waiting
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:30 PM   #150
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Wow... Fukc Pete, you rock.
Don't encourage him, his head will swell even more
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:33 PM   #151
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Consenting Adult???? I'm still waiting
18..next.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:33 PM   #152
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So, child molestation causes homosexuality and more child molestation?? Link me to the conservative un-think tank you have been reading up on.

I kinda go with(cough cough hack cough) Mike on that one, when I was single I did an experiment I heard child molestors usally where molested, so I decided I would go out with girls that had been raped. You see where my logic is going right?? Well it dosen't work that way....LOL
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:34 PM   #153
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Well, for me the line is where there is consent. Consent can't be given by a child, legally. This is something I don't understand about Conservative Christians. They talk about personal freedoms and rights, but can't wait to tell people what they can and can't do. Yes for me, I think consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want with each other as long as they do not harm anyone else. I don't think this applies to pedophiles and children. Their actions harm the children. I'm sure they are born that way, but their actions harm others, which is where their rights end. A homosexual's actions do no harm to anyone.
So you say they were born that way? Well one thing I know for sure is that you were not born ignorant, but you sure have been acting like it
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:36 PM   #154
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Better that liberal, How about the consenting adult part.

Also since you have revieled your new libertarian image I'm sure we can assume your pissed about the government sticking their nose into your consenting adult choice as to health insurance, or maybe the governments infuence over your kids being allowed to pray in school, after all it's not hurting anyone.

When are you going to start screaming for smaller and less intrusive government....

Libertarian, thats the best thing you've put up in a long time....
Why do you guy always get this one wrong? Who told your kids they couldn't pray in school? Nobody. The simple fact is, school led/directed prayer was taken out of school because it should have never been there in the first place. Your kids can pray their asses off, the school just can't endorse a specific religion or lead a specific religious prayer.

I don't find the federal government to be overly intrusive. I also don't see them sticking their nose in my health care options, until yesterday, I saw them giving me another OPTION that could possibly give the insurance companies more competition, thus lowering their prices.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:38 PM   #155
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18..next.

What do you do to a guy that bangs a chick thats a week from 18????
What do you do with a 16 year old that wants an abortion????
Is it 18 for guys and girls or can a 17 year old guy get laid by an older chick and its ok?
Who polices sex of somebody under 18???
If both are under 18 then what, does that negate the consenting adult thing and now its all right???
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:38 PM   #156
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So, child molestation causes homosexuality and more child molestation?? Link me to the conservative un-think tank you have been reading up on.
Ask your gay friends, guys and girls, they can tell you more than you may want to know
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:39 PM   #157
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So you say they were born that way? Well one thing I know for sure is that you were not born ignorant, but you sure have been acting like it
Who's the ignorant one? Yes they are born that way, the same way you were born the way you were.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:39 PM   #158
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Well, not you in particular, but the people who vote to keep people from doing what they want to. I imagine you have voted to restrict people from doing things or supported politicians who want to restrict, yes? Isn't that the same thing?
Yes and no. If I know that something is going to harm someone eternally, I'll vote the way to try and keep them from that path. If it'll harm uborn/Born children, I'll vote to protect the kids. That's simple voting, it's what our country is about. I vote according to what morals I have and hope that my fellow americans feel the same way. If they don't, there's no reason to complain, democracy has worked. Everybody votes for the politician that they want so that he will do what most represents thier opinions and convictions.

Quote:
Yes, I would agree that children under a certain age shouldn't have sex. Who doesn't? Who's the devils advocate? Did you think that I was a proponent of pre-teen sex?

I'm sure there have been plenty of women who have injured their vaginas from heterosexual sex. That's just a part of the whole "consenting adults" thing.
Many people think that it's ok for teenagers to have sex. A good portion of them aren't of legal age, they can't give consent, then they get pregnant, then they are stuck with a baby before they even get to live life.


True, Sex does hurt some women sometimes. But it's still made to be used in that way. I don't think any doctor would suggest sticking large things up your butt on a regular basis. I just don't think it would be healthy.....
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:40 PM   #159
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Ask your gay friends, guys and girls, they can tell you more than you may want to know
I have some gay friends and they were born gay. They weren't even molested. I know that's a mindblower for you.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:44 PM   #160
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True, Sex does hurt some women sometimes. But it's still made to be used in that way. I don't think any doctor would suggest sticking large things up your butt on a regular basis. I just don't think it would be healthy.....
I would care about your opinion on this if you were an M.D.

It was nice chattin', but now that i've got all the supplies gathered up, I'm outta here for 3 days on the Manistee River. Peace.

Good luck Brewmenn, Pete, GoodBUZZ.
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