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Old August 18th, 2009, 09:04 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
This is from a previous thread. I do'nt have the time to find all the sources agian. I think I may have linked a few back then.




From the sounds of it "Seperation of Church and state" was meant for something else. Maybe they didn't want the same situation they had in England with the Catholic Church. The Church was not to Run the state, but that does not mean that the state can't use God as a Higher moral Compass. Most of the founding fathers regognized that. I just wish they would now
You left out Thomas Jefferson:

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Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/jefferson_dba.html
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Old August 18th, 2009, 09:25 PM   #62
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Actually I am only bringing my comments to the table, somebody else started this thread.
This thread was about Christain values.
It's about how some of the same people that want the government to impose "Christian values" when it come to issues like abortion and gay marriage scream bloody murder when someone suggests that the the government imposes some compassion.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 09:28 PM   #63
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The letter spawning his writing of that letter?

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Our Sentiments are uniformly on the side of Religious Liberty — That Religion is at all times and places a matter between God and individuals — That no man ought to suffer in name, person, or effects on account of his religious Opinions - That the legitimate Power of civil government extends no further than to punish the man who works ill to his neighbor: But Sir our constitution of government is not specific. Our ancient charter together with the Laws made coincident therewith, were adopted on the Basis of our government, at the time of our revolution; and such had been our Laws & usages, and such still are; that Religion is considered as the first object of Legislation; and therefore what religious privileges we enjoy (as a minor part of the State) we enjoy as favors granted, and not as inalienable rights: and these favors we receive at the expense of such degradingacknowledgements, as are inconsistent with the rights of freemen. It is not to be wondered at therefore; if those, who seek after power & gain under the pretense of government & Religion should reproach their fellow men — should reproach their chief Magistrate, as an enemy of religion Law & good order because he will not, dare not assume the prerogatives of Jehovah and make Laws to govern the Kingdom of Christ.
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/dba_jefferson.html

I want to know what happened to that thinking.

It sounds like they weren't worried about the church overtaking the Government but they didn't like the idea that the Government provided them the religous rights instead of them being from God. LIke I've said before the seperation was for the Church, not the State. It's used in the exact opposite way it's supposed to have been.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 09:32 PM   #64
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Tell me Mike what are you doing about helping the less fortunate? I do not expect an answer from you on that question, nor do I want one but food for thought for you, thats all
actually, just the other day, I donated 4 boxes of clothing to the clothes closet in my hometown. I can't do much monetarily since I'm sans job right now(but I think the job interview I had today went quite well).
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Old August 18th, 2009, 09:34 PM   #65
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I see your point, but for some of us we don't see it as taking, we see it as sharing and giving back. Same ultimate action, but different viewpoints of it.
The point is its not sharing when the option to give is taken away and replaced with a mandate. Just like its not sharing when you are robbed leaving the bank, even if the thief really needed the money to feed his/her kids. If you want to give back good I support that. But you and I should have the right to decide who deserves what from us and who we "share" with.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 09:38 PM   #66
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It's about how some of the same people that want the government to impose "Christian values" when it come to issues like abortion and gay marriage scream bloody murder when someone suggests that the the government imposes some compassion.
Exactly the nerve of gay people thinking that they have or expect the same rights as the rest of us normal people. They deserve no compassion, they choose thier life style and now want special treatment for it, ummm
As for abortion, murder is murder. If the woman does not want the baby, then give it up for adoption. What did the baby do, to deserved the death penalty? Nothing
And both of these issues go against the word of God
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Old August 18th, 2009, 09:47 PM   #67
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Exactly the nerve of gay people thinking that they have or expect the same rights as the rest of us normal people. They deserve no compassion, they choose thier life style and now want special treatment for it, ummm
As for abortion, murder is murder. If the woman does not want the baby, then give it up for adoption. What did the baby do, to deserved the death penalty? Nothing
And both of these issues go against the word of God
Wanting to get married is considered special treatment? Gays deserve no compassion because they are attracted to the same sex? This is the mentality I could never grasp...I'm so glad i'm not a bigoted Christian.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 09:50 PM   #68
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actually, just the other day, I donated 4 boxes of clothing to the clothes closet in my hometown. I can't do much monetarily since I'm sans job right now(but I think the job interview I had today went quite well).
Thats great, I'll pray that you have favor with your new boss and you get a job
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Old August 18th, 2009, 09:53 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Wanting to get married is considered special treatment? Gays deserve no compassion because they are attracted to the same sex? This is the mentality I could never grasp...I'm so glad i'm not a bigoted Christian.
I'm not a Bigtoed Christian. My toes are not big at all.


I think they deserve Compassion. (Homosexuals not my Toes) I don't think that's something anybody can be Denied. But, I don't think they deserve a Marriage, In the Christian Meaning of course. Crap....there I go agian getting off topic......

Have we come to an answer yet?
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Old August 18th, 2009, 10:04 PM   #70
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The people should help the people not the government.....the help starts at your house, quit with the complacent apethetic dependant bullshit and go out and work. Work your friggin ass off for what you want and quit trying to put the burden on someone else.
To many people won't take a job that they feel is below them. They deserve NOTHING.
Not from other people and not from the government.
If your not going to give 100% you deserve NOTHING.
I love you.

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Actually I am only bringing my comments to the table, somebody else started this thread.
This thread was about Christain values.
Have you ever heard of Mott Children's Hospital?
A friend of mine, he is the grandson of the founder of the Mott Hospital, they are Christian folks and donated millions of dollars to build the hospital and donate millions every year to the hospital for programs to keep the best care available for the sickest of kids that would not have the opportunity to live a life as full as can be expected with the illnesses that they are dealing with.
No government help.
So your question is... people helping people, I see it here. How about Grace Center of Hope in Pontiac again no government help. They help homeless, women and children, get them on thier feet help them with educating them helping them get jobs, Poeple helping peolpe again no government help.
You see if the government got involved they would only put restrictions on things and make it very costly on tax payers and to top it off they would mess it up.
Tell me Mike what are you doing about helping the less fortunate? I do not expect an answer from you on that question, nor do I want one but food for thought for you, thats all
This is a good example the type of Christians I don't mind. They are good people helping from the heart. A very large percentage of self proclaimed "Christians", that I've personally met, were really self centered hypocrites, Hats off to any organization that (purely) wishes to help its fellow man (without strings attached).
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Old August 18th, 2009, 10:07 PM   #71
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Wanting to get married is considered special treatment? Gays deserve no compassion because they are attracted to the same sex? This is the mentality I could never grasp...I'm so glad i'm not a bigoted Christian.
I don't get it.. two guys wanting to get married, two woman wanting to get married, come on now can't you see there is something wrong with this picture. They can't have kids together, it is all bout sex thats it. and the strange thing about it is that they think its normal.
Tell me Mike, do you feel as they do? Could you or would you, have a man in your life as a woman? Can you grasp that? your answer is no. Homosexuality is not for our children and should not be taught to our children. It tears apart the fabric of the family unit, you know man and woman= kids.
You know you can be a bigot and not be a Christian
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Old August 18th, 2009, 10:13 PM   #72
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The people should help the people not the government.....the help starts at your house, quit with the complacent apethetic dependant bullshit and go out and work. Work your friggin ass off for what you want and quit trying to put the burden on someone else.
To many people won't take a job that they feel is below them. They deserve NOTHING.
Not from other people and not from the government.
If your not going to give 100% you deserve NOTHING.
Agree, when I was laid off in Oct. what saved my wife and I was money we saved from working our butts off. Since then I haven't been able to find work that would pay enough to cover day care cost to go to work. Does this mean I deserve a hand out? No, it means we need to watch our money closer then we did in the past and make it work.
Now if my wife wasn't working, I would grab the first offer and keep looking. Even if it was welcoming you to Wal-Mart.
I think the problem is some people don't understand the difference between a handout and charity. Charity being giving to one of our own free will, who is trying to get back on their feet, to support their self. Instead of complaining of all their medical bills, and how they can't afford insurance. But some how can drive a new car and have a flat screen high def. TV I never knew those to be rights.
Maybe if people could get their priorities straight we would have less problems. And less looking for handouts. They would be supporting themselves instead of trying to get others to do that for them.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 10:15 PM   #73
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I don't get it.. two guys wanting to get married, two woman wanting to get married, come on now can't you see there is something wrong with this picture. They can't have kids together, it is all bout sex thats it. and the strange thing about it is that they think its normal.
Tell me Mike, do you feel as they do? Could you or would you, have a man in your life as a woman? Can you grasp that? your answer is no. Homosexuality is not for our children and should not be taught to our children. It tears apart the fabric of the family unit, you know man and woman= kids.
You know you can be a bigot and not be a Christian
you're a moron.

The example you give could apply to people who get married and don't have children. It's just about sex, they shouldn't be allowed. Who the fukc are you to decide that?

No I couldn't have a man in my life like a woman, because i am a heterosexual, but we're not all the same. Some people are different from you, and it doesn't make what they are bad, it makes them different from you.

"Homosexuality is not for our children and should not be taught to our children. It tears apart the fabric of the family unit, you know man and woman= kids."

WTF does this mean? Two gay guys who get married in Iowa are tearing your family apart because they can't have kids? Weird.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 10:16 PM   #74
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I believe it to be very simple. So sad that the unprepared would have to suffer for once in their life, but if the government didn't provide handouts, people would stop expecting them, and they would either sink or swim, as it should be.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 10:16 PM   #75
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i loled when i read, originally posted by jesus. he must got the intrawebz
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Old August 18th, 2009, 10:16 PM   #76
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I love you.



This is a good example the type of Christians I don't mind. They are good people helping from the heart. A very large percentage of self proclaimed "Christians", that I've personally met, were really self centered hypocrites, Hats off to any organization that (purely) wishes to help its fellow man (without strings attached).

Our Campus Ministry Gives out hot Dogs to drunk people on Friday nights before football games (MSU). It's actually alot of fun, no strings attached either. Altough many people ask us if we lace them with anything....we don't.

Many people say that if you have to tell people you're a Christian, you're not doing something right. We are to be the salt and light of the earth, the seasoning. People should be able to tell we are Christians by the way we live our lifes. Just a though.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 10:20 PM   #77
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you're a moron.

The example you give could apply to people who get married and don't have children. It's just about sex, they shouldn't be allowed. Who the fukc are you to decide that?

No I couldn't have a man in my life like a woman, because i am a heterosexual, but we're not all the same. Some people are different from you, and it doesn't make what they are bad, it makes them different from you.

"Homosexuality is not for our children and should not be taught to our children. It tears apart the fabric of the family unit, you know man and woman= kids."

WTF does this mean? Two gay guys who get married in Iowa are tearing your family apart because they can't have kids? Weird.

My two cents. Homosexuality is a sickness, or a mental imbalance. Same as a person born with an iq of two that drools on themselves. We may humor them as we do, because there seems to be no cure, but i'm pretty sure civizilation would fail if that sickness progressed too far, as men fucking men doesn't produce children. (Bisexual women are excluded from this assessment as that shit is hotttt)
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Old August 18th, 2009, 10:21 PM   #78
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OK, here's the funny part. YOU are telling us to stay on topic. Hilarious. I haven't really gone off topic at all yet. If I have, it wasn't by my doing, I was explaining myself to another person. I've also gave some (as far as I can tell) pretty good answers to the question.

Cliff notes = Our Government was founded on CHristian structures, That stopped at "Seperation of Church and State" which was a missused idea and now is blown way out of proportion, The government is now falling apart because of it's inability to function because of it's lack of the God that was supposed to be center to it. Now, let me be clear in saying that the Government was not run by the Church. It was Centered on God and his Decrees but run by it's public. Also notice the past tense I've used, It no longer is.

It is our job to take care of people. No matter what faith/lack there of, we are all guilty, in some form or another, for the shape of our country.

Oh, throw in there the use of Christian Apoligetics to explain the verses quoted and thier meaning and contexts.



What exactly did you want for an answer?



Amen.
I wasn't telling you to stay on topic, i found it humorous that in the same thread that you were backpeddling about our country being based on christian values, you throw in the "founded on christian values" meme again.

If our government was founded on christian values, and you have christian values, why shouldn't your government act as christian as you?
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Old August 18th, 2009, 10:22 PM   #79
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My two cents. Homosexuality is a sickness, or a mental imbalance. Same as a person born with an iq of two that drools on themselves. We may humor them as we do, because there seems to be no cure, but i'm pretty sure civizilation would fail if that sickness progressed too far, as men fucking men doesn't produce children. (Bisexual women are excluded from this assessment as that shit is hotttt)
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Old August 18th, 2009, 10:23 PM   #80
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I don't think gay couples wanting to be together legally is so bad. I have no problem with them getting tax breaks or insurance benefits because of their legal status. I do have a problem with the term "marrage" being used to describe their union. I feel that marrage is between a man and a woman and it should stay that way.
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